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Family of murdered Border Patrol agent files $25M claim against ATF Read more: http:

Re: Family of murdered Border Patrol agent files $25M claim against ATF Read more: h

1Perry said:
If that dealer illegally sold the guns, yes, I imagine they can be sued. If they knowingly sold to members of a criminal organization, yes I imagine one could sue.
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1. You have to establish the guns were illegally sold by an unauthorized dealer.
2. Being a member of a criminal organization does not make one unable to purchase guns.
3. You have to establish that the person who purchased the gun was not legally allowed to do in the jurisdiction they did it in.

Finally:

4. You have to establish the culpability of the unauthorized dealer in the crime.

Good luck with all that.
 
Re: Family of murdered Border Patrol agent files $25M claim against ATF Read more: h

Hatuey said:
1. You have to establish the guns were illegally sold by an unauthorized dealer.
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No, I would think that you could show that they were illegally sold by either an authorized or unauthorized dealer.

2. Being a member of a criminal organization does not make one unable to purchase guns.
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Not in of itself but if you could show that the dealer knew it was going to be used for illegal purposes I would think that he could be arrested as an accomplice and then successfully sued in civil court.

3. You have to establish that the person who purchased the gun was not legally allowed to do in the jurisdiction they did it in.
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Not a very high bar.

Finally:

4. You have to establish the culpability of the unauthorized dealer in the crime.
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So far, IMO that all defines Holder to a T.


Good luck with all that.[/QUOTE]
 
Re: Family of murdered Border Patrol agent files $25M claim against ATF Read more: h

j-mac said:
Good GAWD! What world do liberals come from?


j-mac
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Isnt it quite obvious that the reason Libs are being so ignorant on F&F is to protect Holder and Obama.
 
Re: Family of murdered Border Patrol agent files $25M claim against ATF Read more: h

Sparky said:
Isnt it quite obvious that the reason Libs are being so ignorant on F&F is to protect Holder and Obama.
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Oh yeah, but these are stunning times...See after 8 years of hearing how, what, and what they wouldn't do in all things government in order to take the moral high ground during Bush, it is jaw dropping now to see them play such ignorance.


j-mac
 
Re: Family of murdered Border Patrol agent files $25M claim against ATF Read more: h

1Perry said:
No, I would think that you could show that they were illegally sold by either an authorized or unauthorized dealer.
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Considering this operation was a federal operation I wish you good luck with that.

Not in of itself but if you could show that the dealer knew it was going to be used for illegal purposes I would think that he could be arrested as an accomplice and then successfully sued in civil court.
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Crystal balls are a terrible way to make judgments.

Not a very high bar.
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Of course not - however it makes a gigantic difference.

So far, IMO that all defines Holder to a T
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Yes, because it's Obama AG. :roll:
 
Re: Family of murdered Border Patrol agent files $25M claim against ATF Read more: h

Hatuey said:
Considering this operation was a federal operation I wish you good luck with that.
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The question was whether this could be done to a gun dealer that did the same.
Crystal balls are a terrible way to make judgments.
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LOL, really? Do you really think one would need a crystal ball to know that drug gangs were going to use the guns for illegal activities?
Of course not - however it makes a gigantic difference.
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I hope they win.
Yes, because it's Obama AG. :roll:
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Ditto.
 
Re: Family of murdered Border Patrol agent files $25M claim against ATF Read more: h

1Perry said:
The question was whether this could be done to a gun dealer that did the same.
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It really can't. It's no different than the family of a police officer trying to sue a gun dealer because their family member died during a shootout with gangbangers. One of the occupational hazards of protecting the US is dying. Shocking. I know. Your family shouldn't get 25 millions because you died doing what you willingly signed up for.
 
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Re: Family of murdered Border Patrol agent files $25M claim against ATF Read more: h

Hatuey said:
It really can't. It's no different than the family of a police officer trying to sue the government because their family member died during a shootout with gangbangers.
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No, it's not the same. In your scenario the government played no role. In the case of this lawsuit, they did. If the government makes a mistake and locks someone away for 15 years there is a lawsuit and a pay out by the government. Here the government screwed up and got someone killed.
One of the occupational hazards of protecting the US is dying. Shocking. I know. You shouldn't get 25 millions because you died doing what you willingly signed up for.
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Nobody signed up to get killed by someone the government armed.
 
Re: Family of murdered Border Patrol agent files $25M claim against ATF Read more: h

1Perry said:
Here the government screwed up and got someone killed. Nobody signed up to get killed by someone the government armed.
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There is that crystal ball again.
 
Re: Family of murdered Border Patrol agent files $25M claim against ATF Read more: h

Hatuey said:
There is that crystal ball again.
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Yeah, if they had only know that the guy they put away for 15 years was innocent. I'm not sure you have a real grasp of the concept. i believe the government should have known that this was going to bite them, but even ifnot, that doesn't alleviate their culpability. #4 applies easily if not other definitions. Culpability - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Re: Family of murdered Border Patrol agent files $25M claim against ATF Read more: h

In my state medical malpractice suits can only apply to potential earnings plus 250k for the life.

I don't see any reason why this situation should be different.
 
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