House bans welfare recipients' money from strip clubs, liquor stores

apdst said:

Only black folks talk like that. Is that another example of Leftist racism? Or Leftist ignorance of a culture they hate?

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No, it's another example of a right-winger making **** up to justify themselves. A southern accent doesn't have a damned thing to do about race. Now, that's twice a right-winger has mentioned racism about things that aren't racist. Next, you'll be telling me the right aren't ever guilty of racism, because they don't know what it is.

Harry Guerrilla said:

You made a broad personal attack about Southerners using the regional accent and then proceeded to call Southerns stupid.
I find it ironic that, you use regional bigotry and prejudice, but then call another stupid. :shrug:

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Find it ironic that I live in the South, too! I find it ironic you claim I said something and can't quote it to prove your point. Making up something that someone did is what a strawman argument is about. I've said the people in our whole country are stupid for not burying the Republican party in the Whig family plot.

It's one thing to be suckered by the Republican party, but when you know for a fact that Republicans were the block behind passing the Civil Rights Act and then Nixon used a Southern Strategy to get your support, what does that say about the region? What does it say of a group of people, when Republicans appoint the Justices to the Supreme Court to make Roe v Wade the law and then use the issue to get themselves elected for the next 40 years?

I don't have a problem living in the South throughout my life and pointing out how the South deals with politics is stupid.

Khayembii Communique said:

Maybe I'm confusing you with another poster but I didn't think the government choosing what is and is not "necessary" fit into your politics.

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You must be. Effective social support does not in my book mean providing means to go to strip clubs. Providing a 'hand up' is something we as a society should all be engaged in...but hand outs? When you have people that arent invested in themselves, then society has no obligation to support them. Not that difficult a concept.

Gary said:

Find it ironic that I live in the South, too! I find it ironic you claim I said something and can't quote it to prove your point. Making up something that someone did is what a strawman argument is about. I've said the people in our whole country are stupid for not burying the Republican party in the Whig family plot.

It's one thing to be suckered by the Republican party, but when you know for a fact that Republicans were the block behind passing the Civil Rights Act and then Nixon used a Southern Strategy to get your support, what does that say about the region? What does it say of a group of people, when Republicans appoint the Justices to the Supreme Court to make Roe v Wade the law and then use the issue to get themselves elected for the next 40 years?

I don't have a problem living in the South throughout my life and pointing out how the South deals with politics is stupid.

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Gary said:

A Johnny comes lately still knows how to cook a poke chop and leave the r off of it. The stupidity of the South is a choice.

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So what's this?

Gary said:

I've slept in GA too, and all the hick states along the east coast.

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And this?

Do you make fun of the way other ethnic groups talk too, do you name call them as well?
Hey dude, just because someone doesn't do things your way, doesn't make them bad people.

Catawba said:

Are you saying there are no national records to support your claims, or that you can't find them.

If what you say is true, it should be no trouble to find, right?

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You harp about a "living wage" I show you the effects of a living wage You run from this and demand a "National study on..."

Easy enough. I wanted to see how many people would "thank you" so I could tally the number of people that don't mind hurting employment in America.

Employment Results

Using government data from January 1979 to December 2004, the effect of minimum wage increases on retail and small business employment is estimated. Specifically, a 10 percent increase in the minimum wage is associated with a 0.9 to 1.1 percent decline in retail employment and a 0.8 to 1.2 percent reduction in small business employment.

These employment effects grow even larger for the low-skilled employees most affected by minimum wage increases. A 10 percent increase in the minimum wage is associated with a 2.7 to 4.3 percent decline in teen employment in the retail sector, a 5 percent decline in average retail hours worked by all teenagers, and a 2.8 percent decline in retail hours worked by teenagers who remain employed in retail jobs.

These results increase in magnitude when focusing on the effect on small businesses. A 10 percent increase in the minimum wage is associated with a 4.6 to 9.0 percent decline in teenage employment in small businesses and a 4.8 to 8.8 percent reduction in hours worked by teens in the retail sector.


=-=-=
Conclusion

These findings provide consistent evidence that minimum wage increases result in a significant decline in retail and small business employment. This finding is robust across several model specifications. Furthermore, these findings refute many of the claims raised in the FPI study so often cited in favor of minimum wage increases at the state and federal levels. The differences between these studies are likely a result of the more careful and appropriate methodological methods utilized in this study.

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The Effect of Minimum Wage Increases on Retail and Small Business Employment | EPI Study

Asked for, delivered. Every hike in Minimum wage is followed by a drop in employment among those most in need of entry level positions. Your "desire" to see a living wage with little effort, like so many progressive ideas, has the upshot of making you feel good, and the downside of harming people.

But their just people, what do you care?

Catawba said:

The hell I didn't! I am confident others can also see through the hypocrisy of your posts. :2wave:

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I never said I had a problem with minimum wage workers getting state benefits.
That's what you twisted it into, but I didn't say it.

Your 1st quote and my answer shows I didn't have a problem with minimum wage and people using government programs.

Your 2nd quote is based on a living wage, which doesn't address the straw man you attributed to me.

Your 3rd quote is again about the living wage, which has nothing to do with minimum wage and people using state benefits.

Lastly your 4th and 5th quotes, show that I don't have a problem with government programs for people in need.
Are we reading the same forum or did you just pick a bunch of random quotes, thinking I wouldn't bother to read it?

Catawba said:

By going public with their plan of attack on medicare and SS benefits. They forgot seniors were the only demographic they carried in the last presidential election.

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We cannot afford SS and Medicare. Hate to break it to you son, but those programs eat up roughly 35-40% of the CURRENT budget that we have to borrow trillions to pay for. Add in welfare, foodstamps, and Medicaide and guess what? You breach 60% of the budget just on social programs ALONE

Think about that for a moment. +60% of the budget is taking money from one group of people, and giving to others. But to do this, we have borrowed over 17 TRILLION Dollars. You can blather about military spending and wars till you turn blue in the face, the numbers however are not on your side as to the cause of our debt. Neither is the idiotic line of "The rich need to pay their fair share!"

ALL Social Programs have become voter bribes, and we cannot afford them any more. But go on, keep pushing for them, spend more! Borrow more, economic calamity is that way, and you seem eager for it.

Harry Guerrilla said:

So what's this?



And this?

Do you make fun of the way other ethnic groups talk too, do you name call them as well?
Hey dude, just because someone doesn't do things your way, doesn't make them bad people.

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You said:

Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla
The South is a johnny come lately, largely because we were an agriculture region for so long.
Even after the civil war it was like that.

We've been industrializing a lot lately, that's mostly the reason for our new growth.

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And, I said:

Originally Posted by Gary
A Johnny comes lately still knows how to cook a poke chop and leave the r off of it. The stupidity of the South is a choice.

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The South is not an ethnic group and they definitely know how to cook a poke chop. I just cooked some for my son and grandchildren and they loved them. My son asked me what I put on them and I said salt and pepper. He's so used to marinating meat, he didn't even know what it tasted like. Now, I've got the kids calling them poke chops.

Since I've lived my whole life in the South, I'm not offended by the way they speak. Haven't you ever been around people from Massachusetts, who remove an r when pronouncing a word that ends is one or add an r if it ends in a vowel, like arear for area. In my state we have whats called the what er wood er line for H2O.

When you decide to get rid of your strawman argument and deal with some real issues, let me know!

From what I've heard, the states like Texas and Georgia are giving businesses sweetheart deals to attract them.

Gary said:

You said:



And, I said:



The South is not an ethnic group and they definitely know how to cook a poke chop. I just cooked some for my son and grandchildren and they loved them. My son asked me what I put on them and I said salt and pepper. He's so used to marinating meat, he didn't even know what it tasted like. Now, I've got the kids calling them poke chops.

Since I've lived my whole life in the South, I'm not offended by the way they speak. Haven't you ever been around people from Massachusetts, who remove an r when pronouncing a word that ends is one or add an r if it ends in a vowel, like arear for area. In my state we have whats called the what er wood er line for H2O.

When you decide to get rid of your strawman argument and deal with some real issues, let me know!

From what I've heard, the states like Texas and Georgia are giving businesses sweetheart deals to attract them.

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Maybe I overreacted and if your comments were not meant to be insulting, I do apologize.

I disagree with the ethnic thing though.
The South may indeed be a different ethnic group.
It fits the definition pretty well.

Catawba said:

U.S. Poverty: Census Finds Nearly Half Of Americans Are Poor Or Low-Income

How American Income Inequality Hit Levels Not Seen Since The Depression

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Interesting links but they fail to support that this 'wealth disparity' or 'half the country in or near poverty’ suddenly showed up. Your link did provide an interesting note:

The traditional view among economists is that combating inequality would hurt growth. Many argue that inequality is "if anything, favorable to -- or at least a necessary by-product of -- economic growth," as Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas researchers wrote in a 2008 paper on inequality.

So I guess if you are promoting ‘combating inequality’ you are thusly suppressing growth.

Harry Guerrilla said:

Maybe I overreacted and if your comments were not meant to be insulting, I do apologize.

I disagree with the ethnic thing though.
The South may indeed be a different ethnic group.
It fits the definition pretty well.

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You could call the people of the South an ethnic group based on linguistics or culture, but not a biological ethnic group. I've never met someone who didn't like a southern accent, but it's just human nature to find a different accent amusing.

I once attending a large family reunion in Tampa of native Floridians. I was down there visiting a Marine Corps buddy, who became a Tampa Cop. Before joining the Marines, the guy had only been out of Florida to visit his Uncle's farm, just across the Georgia line. Everyone has an accent, but the Florida accent is definitely different than the regional southern accent, which is very similar from Georgia to Arkansas and on up to West Virginia and most of Virginia. A Texas accent is also different. Native Floridians have a strong southern identity, but once you get up into my Mid-Atlantic region, it isn't the case. You can find a few exceptions in Delaware and Maryland, but it tends to end in the Virginias, where people identify more with their state or nation than a southern heritage.



U.S. Department of Labor - Wage and Hour Division (WHD) - Minimum Wage Laws in the States

According to this data, of the dark red southern states, only North Carolina has a state minimum wage equal to the federal minimum wage. The other states often identified as being in the South have a minimum wage equal to the federal minimum wage, with the exception of Florida, which is higher. Georgia and Arkansas have a state minimum wage that is less than the federal, while, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Tennessee and South Carolina have no state minimum wage. North Carolina was making good economic progress, until hit with all this outsourcing of jobs. Like I pointed out, Virginia, Delaware and Maryland are 1st, 4th, and 5th in household income adjusted to the cost of living and Texas and Georgia are 12th and 18th. Missouri, which some consider a southern state is 23rd. So out of the 16 or 17 states that are considered southern, only 5 or 6 southern states have household incomes adjusted to the cost of living in the upper half. That means there are a lot of people in the South, who think they are so much better off than people in other states and they aren't. When you factor in their regressive state taxes, it's even worse.

Household income in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Kal'Stang said:

So a person on foodstamps doesn't deserve crawfish? You have no idea what this persons normal spending habits are and yet you condemn em for buying what might have been a "splurge" the same as yours.

I absolutely hate this mentality that if someone is on foodstamps/welfare then they shouldn't be allowed ANYTHING but the most basics of basics.

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I have issues when someone is telling me we need to increase the amount of foodstamps/welfare we give to people becuase they can't afford the "necessities" when at the same time they're enjoying what are essentially luxuries.

Now, that said, if people want to buy things like crawfish or nice fat porterhouse steaks or wants to buy all name brand food rather than the generic alternatives...more power to them. They're got to spend their money, even if its government assitance money, as they choose just like the rest of us do. However, don't expect me to have much sympathy when they turn around and say they need MORE money because they can't afford all the stuff they need.

When I was fresh out of college trying to live off $24k a year in one of the most expensive locations in the country, I bought generic brand cereal and chips not name brand. I bought giant bags of chicken and an occasional thin steak that had been out for a while so had coupons stuck to it for quick sale. Even if I wanted to indulge, I got a bottle of cheap liquor and some cheap soda to mix and used that for ages rather than going out to the bar weekly. Did it suck? Yeah. But I didn't have a lot of disposable income so it was either be frugal with my money and my choices to get the most of what I'd like, even if it wasn't exactly what I wanted, or get less of what I'd want but it be top end. I made a choice...they can make it too. But don't look to me saying you need MORE when you make a concious choice not to be frugal.

jamesrage said:

I support this.But I think wiring housing assistance money to the land lords bank account and the bank account of utility providers would save money.And instead of giving out food stamp cards why not something similar to wic vouchers?

House bans welfare recipients' money from strip clubs, liquor stores - Political Hotsheet - CBS News
The House of Representatives overwhelmingly passed a bill that prohibits welfare recipients from using their government subsidy in strip clubs, liquor stores and casinos.
The measure easily received the necessary support of two-thirds of House members, with 395 voting in favor and only 27 opposing.

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First, let me say I do like the notion of shifting safety net support away from giving cash or pseudo-cash and getting much of it in a "direct to provider" format. However, I do think ultimately the system can't work completely like that because of every day expenses that are too randomzied to truly account for. However, in theory I like it.

Second, as to the IDEA behind this legislation...I can understand it. You're getting government assistance, you shouldn't be spending that government assistance on non-essential items like liquor or strippers.

Third, as to actually pushing this. Pointless, dumb, and a waste of our time/money. How are you possibly going to enforce this? If its with man power of any kind, what is the actual financial benefit of his compared to what we'd spend to enforce it. Is this anything other than a hollow, pointless emotional show? If so, why are you wasting our time and tax money on this rather then things that will actually benefit the country?

Harry Guerrilla said:

The biggest fraud, in terms of numbers, that I believe to be true, is the false household status.

Where an unmarried couple with children, who make more than the EBT threshold, falsely claims the size of the household to receive benefits.
Usually means that the woman, files as single, with children and no other household members.

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If the couple is not married and the man has no child support order, then the man in the household has no duty to support the woman or any children for which paternity has not been established. Any money he contributes toward their care is a gift and can be withdrawn legally at any time. Therefore, the single mother is allowed to claim herself and her dependents as a separate household. The same applies if she is living with a relative or a stranger with whom no romantic relationship exists.

I personally don't agree with this part of the SNAP program, but it is in place so a woman using it is not committing fraud.

I'd like to clear up another misconception I'm seeing in this thread - things like rental assistance, utility assistance, etc. are paid directly to the vendors, not to the recipients. This has been the case for at least forty years. This is why those wishing to rent property they own must be registered and approved by the government program to receive the rental assistance payments. The housing rented cannot belong to a first degree relative - so parents cannot go buy a house, rent it to their child and let the government make the payment via rental assistance.

Zyphlin said:

First, let me say I do like the notion of shifting safety net support away from giving cash or pseudo-cash and getting much of it in a "direct to provider" format. However, I do think ultimately the system can't work completely like that because of every day expenses that are too randomzied to truly account for. However, in theory I like it.

Second, as to the IDEA behind this legislation...I can understand it. You're getting government assistance, you shouldn't be spending that government assistance on non-essential items like liquor or strippers.

Third, as to actually pushing this. Pointless, dumb, and a waste of our time/money. How are you possibly going to enforce this? If its with man power of any kind, what is the actual financial benefit of his compared to what we'd spend to enforce it. Is this anything other than a hollow, pointless emotional show? If so, why are you wasting our time and tax money on this rather then things that will actually benefit the country?

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Most of the food stamp and welfare is in the form of a debit or credit card.So shouldn't it be easy to see what atm machine and the location of that atm machine is of where that withdrawal was made?

muciti said:

Dont they have to prove the number of people in the household?

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Every person in an FS household must have an SS# (has to provide proof for SS - either the card or a printout from SS verifying the info) and this is checked against SS records for accuracy and to determine if wages are being earned under that SS number that are not being reported. The SS #s are also used to assure that a person is not drawing benefits in more that one state.

Who is in the household is really hard to verify unless the family is living in public housing or is on rental assistance. For instance, say a parent with a child(ren) says she and her child(ren) are living with a friend and applies for FS while the child(ren) is actually living with grandparents or the other parent. If the household that actually has the child(ren) is not drawing benefits for the child, then this will likely not be discovered.

jamesrage said:

Most of the food stamp and welfare is in the form of a debit or credit card.So shouldn't it be easy to see what atm machine and the location of that atm machine is of where that withdrawal was made?

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Granted I'm not exactly up to speed on the ins and outs of strip joints, but I thought Cash was the name of the game in those places, not credit cards?

If there is a way to easily block the debit card from being used at specific retailers designated as off limits, I wouldn't have a huge issue with it. But if there's any kind of actual expense or time invested in it I don't see much use since it'd be easy to get around...go to an ATM and get it in cash (which to my understanding is doable).

I just wonder/worry if this is one of those situations where the act trying to see that tax payer funds are used in a more worth while manner will actually cost the tax payers more tha nit saves.

Zyphlin said:

Granted I'm not exactly up to speed on the ins and outs of strip joints, but I thought Cash was the name of the game in those places, not credit cards?

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Not sure if they have these in those strip joints, but in Nevada we have credit card ATMs which bascically let you use credit card and get cash out (at higher fees). For instance a $100.00 withdrawl using your credit card, will charge you a $40 fee.

apdst said:

When my exwife an I first got married and I was just an E-5 in the Army and she wasn't working, we were at Ft. Polk. One Saturday night, we decided to splurge and go buy 15 pounds of boiled crawfish. To most of you that doesn't sound like a big deal, but crawfish is a delicacy and it's not cheap--15 LBS.s runs about 40 bucks and that sounds like a lot, but it's not.

Anyway...while I was waiting, a dude came in and bought 60 pounds of live crawfish--uncooked--and I-be-damned if he didn't whip out a welfare card to pay for it. I was so damn mad I could have knocked the rest of his teeth out of his mouth.

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Yeah...this happens. Honestly the problem is generally with meats. Crablegs/Shrimp/Steaks/Certain Fish. Honestly some meats should be labeled as "luxury" and off limits to purchase with a Foodstamp card.

MrVicchio said:

We cannot afford SS and Medicare. Hate to break it to you son, but those programs eat up roughly 35-40% of the CURRENT budget that we have to borrow trillions to pay for. Add in welfare, foodstamps, and Medicaide and guess what? You breach 60% of the budget just on social programs ALONE

Think about that for a moment. +60% of the budget is taking money from one group of people, and giving to others. But to do this, we have borrowed over 17 TRILLION Dollars. You can blather about military spending and wars till you turn blue in the face, the numbers however are not on your side as to the cause of our debt. Neither is the idiotic line of "The rich need to pay their fair share!"

ALL Social Programs have become voter bribes, and we cannot afford them any more. But go on, keep pushing for them, spend more! Borrow more, economic calamity is that way, and you seem eager for it.

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You don't know what the **** you are talking about! SS hasn't added one dime to our debt! But please do continue railing against seniors, the only demographic (besides the Bubba vote) that the GOP carried in the last presidential election!

MrVicchio said:

We cannot afford SS and Medicare. Hate to break it to you son, but those programs eat up roughly 35-40% of the CURRENT budget that we have to borrow trillions to pay for. Add in welfare, foodstamps, and Medicaide and guess what? You breach 60% of the budget just on social programs ALONE

Think about that for a moment. +60% of the budget is taking money from one group of people, and giving to others. But to do this, we have borrowed over 17 TRILLION Dollars. You can blather about military spending and wars till you turn blue in the face, the numbers however are not on your side as to the cause of our debt. Neither is the idiotic line of "The rich need to pay their fair share!"

ALL Social Programs have become voter bribes, and we cannot afford them any more. But go on, keep pushing for them, spend more! Borrow more, economic calamity is that way, and you seem eager for it.

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If you're going to make up numbers, use a little more imagination! Make it +600%!

How many years does it take to borrowing $17 trillion for a $21.9 billion welfare program? I've posted links on the costs of these programs, so why aren't you using the true data to make your case?

Catawba said:

You don't know what the **** you are talking about! SS hasn't added one dime to our debt!

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Of course it has. The US Gov. has to borrow to keep sending out SS checks, the trust fund is full of IOUs, and SS taxes go into the general fund. Just because we gave it its own tax doesn't mean it hasn't contributed to the debt in its own way like every other expenditure has.

Catawba said:

You don't know what the **** you are talking about! SS hasn't added one dime to our debt! But please do continue railing against seniors, the only demographic (besides the Bubba vote) that the GOP carried in the last presidential election!

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This is more dreaming on your part. SS is all ready in the red. (I.E. it's paying out more then it's taking in) It's also what economist, call an unfunded liability... yeah, we have over 100,000,000,000,000.00 in unfunded liabilities coming due oh, in the next 30 years or so. Toss in Obamacare and well...

Gary said:

If you're going to make up numbers, use a little more imagination! Make it +600%!

How many years does it take to borrowing $17 trillion for a $21.9 billion welfare program? I've posted links on the costs of these programs, so why aren't you using the true data to make your case?

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I'm not making up number Gary. I actually bother to know what the heck I'm talking about.



Now, these numbers are from the US Government. The one making up numbers son, is you.