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House bans welfare recipients' money from strip clubs, liquor stores

I wonder how many people who bitch about "the food police" are in favor of telling recipients of public assistance what they can and can't eat.
 
The thing about welfare is how you choose to view it. Some people see welfare as a program to help those in need. Some people see it as a system that is being abused by everyone. The truth is somewhere in between. Our current welfare system, in my opinion, is a great idea that is being taken too far. Welfare is being abused, and being abused by alot of their recipients. People are staying on welfare for far too long. Alot of people see no need to get off of welfare.

These things are happening because society as a whole doesn't want to deal with the problems. We want to throw some money at them and tell them to go away. We don't want to invest the time or resources into correcting the problem.

In my opinion 2 things need to happen to fix our welfare system. The first is make it far less convenient for people who are on it. Pay their rent in government approved housings for them. Issue WIC type vouchers (hadnt thought of this before now but great idea), pay their utilities for them. Don't just give them cash. I am all for piss testing recipients to ensure they are not using drugs. Not because I am worried about them spending their welfare money on it (because that shouldn't be possible if you dont give them cash) but because you are far less likely to be able to get a job and get off of welfare with hot piss. A condition of welfare is that you are actively working toward getting off of welfare. Regular interaction with you social worker.

The second thing that needs to happen is we need to help them in more productive ways. Assisting them with getting into school or a tradeschool. Preparing them for interviews and resume building. Helping them find jobs and become self sufficient. I know there are programs like this out there now but they are very hard to use. Rather than making it more convienent for people to get cash and things that are far from needs we need to be making far easier for them to improve their chances at gaining and maintaining employment. (of course this applies to able bodied people. people with disabilities and the elderly would be exceptions).

Welfare needs to help people survive. Enough food to live on, medical care for when they are sick, and a roof and heat. And a means to improve your life. Nothing more.
 
TacticalEvilDan said:
I wonder how many people who bitch about "the food police" are in favor of telling recipients of public assistance what they can and can't eat.
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I would have no problem with it.

If you don't like being told what to eat, get off welfare. If you can't get off welfare, be glad you have something to eat.
 
tessaesque said:
Did I say "welfare is a large part of the budget"? No. I said "entitlements over all". And social security and medicare most certainly qualify as entitlements.
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why? we pay for them.
 
Thats the point, its getting to the point where we cannot pay for them. We are borrowing forty cents of every dollar then giving away 60 cents of every dollar. Maybe you dont see that as a problem but I do.
 
Viktyr Korimir said:
I love the idea behind this law, but must confess to being confused as to how they think they will enforce this-- how are they going to track it, what are they going to do with violators?

I think a better idea would be to issue welfare benefits on special debit cards-- like SNAP-- that can only be used with approved vendors. Or, at least, that can be audited.
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We already have existing tech to enforce this. For example, I as a NYS worker can use a NYS visa gas card that commands special prompts, including vehicle mileage and my I.D. number. An unauthorized user gets denied. Grocery stores have certain bonuses for Gas at participating companies, and that commands prompts to enter numbers to get the dollar off per gallon attributed by points alloted etc etc. Its definetly an ability we already have so that people can purchase particular approved items on a benny card.
 
liblady said:
why? we pay for them.
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Yeah we do, like the supposedly free public education which is paid by taxes. The issue is how much it costs vs how much money in taxes are we paying and also, even if it is a balanced sheet (which it isn't) what are we getting for our money?
 
muciti said:
I would have no problem with it.

If you don't like being told what to eat, get off welfare. If you can't get off welfare, be glad you have something to eat.
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So when you go on public assistance, you lose the power to decide what you're going to eat?
 
I'm ok with poor people having greater control over money given to them by government assistance. There is abuse in the system, but the controls already in place treat poor people like children. They are given less incentive and ability to control their destiny. Nobody wants the poor using welfare to pay for strippers and booze, and for good reason. However, this mindset also leads to greater control over the poor. They have no incentive to improve their habits and get out of poverty. If we are going to have welfare, there are two ways to go about. Either instate the poor houses, like in ye old Britain, and heavily regulate the lives of those living off of assistance, or we give the poor straight cash and don't subsidize anything else for them. There can still be conditions to receiving the money, but if a person living off of welfare wants to use the money to find their own way up the socio-economic ladder, they are free to do so. If they want to blow it all on strippers and stuff they don't need, fine, but they should not expect one cent of help when they have to pay for housing or their groceries. Treat the poor like adults. They will still be punished for stupid behavior, but they would have greater freedom to control their destinies.
 
00timh said:
Yep, if you rely on others to feed you then they get to dictate what you eat.
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Huh. So when I hear conservative pundits braying about the welfare system being tantamount to slavery, or bitching about the "nanny government," they weren't being figurative.

I'll have to keep this in mind for the next discussion on the subject of personal freedom.
 
DrunkenAsparagus said:
I'm ok with poor people having greater control over money given to them by government assistance. There is abuse in the system, but the controls already in place treat poor people like children. They are given less incentive and ability to control their destiny. Nobody wants the poor using welfare to pay for strippers and booze, and for good reason. However, this mindset also leads to greater control over the poor. They have no incentive to improve their habits and get out of poverty. If we are going to have welfare, there are two ways to go about. Either instate the poor houses, like in ye old Britain, and heavily regulate the lives of those living off of assistance, or we give the poor straight cash and don't subsidize anything else for them. There can still be conditions to receiving the money, but if a person living off of welfare wants to use the money to find their own way up the socio-economic ladder, they are free to do so. If they want to blow it all on strippers and stuff they don't need, fine, but they should not expect one cent of help when they have to pay for housing or their groceries. Treat the poor like adults. They will still be punished for stupid behavior, but they would have greater freedom to control their destinies.
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I am sorta ok with this... but there will be that percentage of people getting public assistance sitting around in parks homeless drinking booze and..... oh wait, never mind, already happening....

personally I feel that if you rely on others to feed or shelter you, they get to dictate what that is. Perhaps the greatest incentive of all is that it is just barely enough, and to move up the social economic ladder would be to profvde for oneself to make for a better life... I guess however one must have pride in order to feel the desire to move up....
 
This nation has gone completely slapped ass crazy and the House bill in the OP is one of many, many, many examples. I've never been on welfare or used food stamps, but I have spent the night at a Holiday Inn - which may be surprisingly similar. It seems many of you don't drink or have never been to a strip club. Laughingly it would seem that Congress hasn't either. I call bull**** on that notion. If any group of Americans knows liquor and strippers, it is the U.S. Congress. Who are they trying to fool? Well, actually they are trying to fool us. Judging from what I have read here Congress has been somewhat successful and/or some of y'all have been, ahem, disingenuous. I will agree that women may not know the ins and outs of strip clubs and I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

Mr. Invisible was right on the money. As to the rest of you, unless your strip club experience has been limited to backing a flatbed truck into a 20 man army tent to use as a stage and drinking alcohol poured out of mason jars, you very well know that strip clubs are not cheap. Here's what food stamps would buy you in a strip club: a glass of water, half of a pack of generic cigarettes and the embarrassment of trying to put 38 cents in a stripper's garter. That's about it. You know it, I know it and Congress knows it.

Beyond that, I don't know that strip clubs can or would accept food stamps. Why in the name of raw capitalism (something many of you masturbate to) would the owner of a strip club want to encourage poor folks with little or no money to rub elbows with high rollers? Let me help you with that answer - he wouldn't. You know that as well. Get the food stamp/welfare strip club idea out of your head. If you believe it, you're lying to yourself. Oh, sure, of course there's always going to be some anecdotal "proof" but it's anecdotal, mmkay?

The House bill is nothing more than a GOP circle jerk. A meaningless bill that was written and passed to appeal to the morally righteous, the church lobby and the racially prejudiced in America. Food stamp recipients are largely believed by the aforementioned to be lazy, uneducated, drug addicted, alcoholic, sexually depraved and non-white.

How do we know this? Well, there's enough historical evidence, but more to the fact is what Congress didn't do, hasn't done and won't do: end business entertainment tax write-offs for lavish meals, golf outings at resorts, yada, yada - and, oh yeah, for alcohol. Of course you can no longer directly write-off liquor, but for those of you who don't know, it can easily be hidden in the total bill and is, frequently. Holy Jack Daniels! That's YOUR money. Businesses are routinely avoiding contributing to federal taxes. The law for the most part permits them to write off food and entertainment - even strippers - and on top of that they cheat and lie an buy liquor. Outrage? Yo mama. Don't look for any and don't look for the House to be changing that law.

One final thing. I don't give a fat rat's ass if someone wants to buy alcohol with food stamps or welfare as long as they aren't buying cases of the stuff and reselling it. If a guy wants to have a beer at the end of the day, go for it. Most people on welfare or food stamps are not going to spend all their food money on alcohol. Telling them what they will and will not eat is social engineering - conservative social engineering. That's something we are seeing a hell of a lot these days.
 
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TacticalEvilDan said:
Huh. So when I hear conservative pundits braying about the welfare system being tantamount to slavery, or bitching about the "nanny government," they weren't being figurative.

I'll have to keep this in mind for the next discussion on the subject of personal freedom.
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Perhaps if you were to listen closer or pay more attention you would also here the discussion about it encapsulates people into the system. And, of the good percentage of those who choose that over working to improve their situation, that is their choice to live that way. Nanny state stuff is different than the welfare trap, far different. Not even the same basis of discussion.
 
Risky Thicket said:
This nation has gone completely slapped ass crazy and the House bill in the OP is one of many, many, many examples. I've never been on welfare or used food stamps, but I have spent the night at a Holiday Inn - which may be surprisingly similar. It seems many of you don't drink or have never been to a strip club. Laughingly it would seem that Congress hasn't either. I call bull**** on that notion. If any group of Americans knows liquor and strippers, it is the U.S. Congress. Who are they trying to fool? Well, actually they are trying to fool us. Judging from what I have read here Congress has been somewhat successful and/or some of y'all have been, ahem, disingenuous. I will agree that women may not know the ins and outs of strip clubs and I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

Mr. Invisible was right on the money. As to the rest of you, unless your strip club experience has been limited to backing flatbed truck into a 20 man army tent to use as a stage and drinking alcohol poured out of mason jars you very well know that strip clubs are not cheap. Here's what food stamps would buy you in a strip club: a glass of water, half of a pack of generic cigarettes and the embarrassment of trying to put 38 cents in a stripper's garter. That's about it. You know it, I know it and Congress knows it.

Beyond that, I don't know that strip clubs can or would accept food stamps. Why in the name of raw capitalism (something many of you masturbate to) would the owner of a strip club want to encourage poor folks with little or no money to rub elbows with high rollers? Let me help you with that answer - he wouldn't. You know that as well. Get the idea food stamp welfare idea out of your head. If you believe it, you're lying to yourself. Oh, sure, of course there's always going to be some anecdotal "proof" but it's anecdotal, mmkay?

The House bill is nothing more than a GOP circle jerk. A meaningless bill that was written and passed to appeal to the morally righteous, the church lobby and the racially prejudiced in America. Food stamp recipients are largely believed by the aforementioned to be lazy, uneducated, drug addicted, alcoholic, sexually depraved and non-white.
How do we know this? Well, there's enough historical evidence but more to the fact is what Congress didn't do, hasn't done and won't do: end business entertainment tax write-offs for lavish meals, golf outings at resorts - and, oh yeah, for alcohol. Of course you can no longer directly write off liquor, but for those of you who don't know it can easily be hidden in the total bill and is frequently. Holy Jack Daniels! That's YOUR money. Businesses are routinely avoiding contributing to federal taxes. The law for the most part permits them to write off food and entertainment - even strippers - and on top of that they cheat and lie an buy liquor. Outrage? Yo mama.

One final thing. I don't give a fat rat's ass if someone wants to buy alcohol with food stamps or welfare as long as they aren't buying cases of the stuff and reselling it. If a guy wants to have a beer at the end of the day, go for it. Most people on welfare or food stamps are not going to spend all their food money on alcohol. Telling them what they will and will not eat is social engineering - conservative social engineering. That's something we are seeing a hell of a lot these days.
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We are finding far too many winding up buying liquor or spending welfare money at strip clubs. Oh and btw, not all strip clubs are so expensive. Perhaps you should seek others other tha the Whiskey or the body shop, cuz they ain't all so expensive. ;)
Here is how I look at it. I work, and they don't. Maybe they want to work, maybe they don't. I am feeding them and giving them shelter. I have no probs with it for those who have truly hit hard times and need to rebuild. Its gonna take a few months, I am ok with that. I do have a serious problem with those who will continually live off me for years and have no ambition to work and spend their time drinking and going to strip clubs.
 
00timh said:
Yep, if you rely on others to feed you then they get to dictate what you eat.
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Exactly. My children rely on my for food. As a result they eat what I give them. A friend of mine last year lost his job and stayed in my spare bedroom last year. He ate what we cooked. And didn't complain.
 
00timh said:
Perhaps if you were to listen closer or pay more attention you would also here the discussion about it encapsulates people into the system. And, of the good percentage of those who choose that over working to improve their situation, that is their choice to live that way. Nanny state stuff is different than the welfare trap, far different. Not even the same basis of discussion.
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I don't see how you can call deciding what someone else gets to eat anything other than "nanny state stuff."
 
I served on a advisory board for the state's FS program for a decade:

The most common type of FS fraud is a recipient selling their FS card for half the value to someone for cash. I have always favored requiring FS recipients to state who is authorized to use the card and having each authorized individual get a photo ID issued at the local level by FS caseworkers. Showing this ID should be mandatory to use the FS card. This would bring the practice of selling the cards to a grinding halt.

The second most common type of fraud is a store that allows purchases of things like diapers, alcohol and tobacco with FS. In order to do this, they scan / ring up an allowed item with the same cost instead of the diapers, alcohol or tobacco. If you know of a store doing this, report them to the department that administers the food stamp program in your state. Their website will have a number for you to report fraud.

A third type of fraud is stores buying FS card for half value and then using them to pay for items that other customers paid cash for. This means they get reimbursed for the full value. Sometime unscrupulous cashiers do this and pocket the cash.
 
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Frolicking Dinosaurs said:
I served on a advisory board for the state's FS program for a decade:

The most common type of FS fraud is a recipient selling their FS card for half the value to someone for cash. I have always favored requiring FS recipients to state who is authorized to use the card and having each authorized individual get a photo ID issued at the local level by FS caseworkers. Showing this ID should be mandatory to use the FS card. This would bring the practice of selling the cards to a grinding halt.
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What i see more of, and have for quite a while is the person who owns the card goes shopping with the person they are selling the items to. Unfortunately no way that i can think of to combat that.

The second most common type of fraud is a store that allows purchases of things like diapers, alcohol and tobacco with FS. In order to do this, they scan / ring up an allowed item with the same cost instead of the diapers, alcohol or tobacco. If you know of a store doing this, report them to the department that administers the food stamp program in your state. Their website will have a number for you to report fraud.
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Another common way is they go to stores that don't record what the item is. Alot of smaller stores ring up items and put in the amount. $2.99, 5.99 ect. Since the item is not recorded in the system people can buy whatever they wish unless the store stops them.

A third type of fraud is stores buying FS card for half value and then using them to pay for items that other customers paid cash for. This means they get reimbursed for the full value. Sometime unscrupulous cashiers do this and pocket the cash.
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Hadn't heard of this one. Pretty crappy technique.
 
TacticalEvilDan said:
I don't see how you can call deciding what someone else gets to eat anything other than "nanny state stuff."
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It's all about choices bud. If the government tells you this is the way it is and that's it, there is no choice. If however a person chooses to live on welfare rather than to work for themselves, then they have made the choice to accept what the government gives them.
 
TacticalEvilDan said:
So when you go on public assistance, you lose the power to decide what you're going to eat?
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No, people don't lost the power to decide what they are going to eat. The government just has the power to tell you what you can buy with the money they give you. If I ask to eat over at a friend's house I don't tell them what they are going to serve me.

If people want to eat a filet mignon they are free to, they just have to pay for it with their money, not the money the government gives them.
 
Does everyone on here understand that the government does not force anyone to go on welfare? People go on welfare because they need help. And you need help be thankful for the help you get. People need to stop complaining because they want more. It is rediculous. These people are getting something for nothing and some of them are complaining because people who are earning their money have more than they do.
 
Frolicking Dinosaurs said:
I served on a advisory board for the state's FS program for a decade:

The most common type of FS fraud is a recipient selling their FS card for half the value to someone for cash. I have always favored requiring FS recipients to state who is authorized to use the card and having each authorized individual get a photo ID issued at the local level by FS caseworkers. Showing this ID should be mandatory to use the FS card. This would bring the practice of selling the cards to a grinding halt.

The second most common type of fraud is a store that allows purchases of things like diapers, alcohol and tobacco with FS. In order to do this, they scan / ring up an allowed item with the same cost instead of the diapers, alcohol or tobacco. If you know of a store doing this, report them to the department that administers the food stamp program in your state. Their website will have a number for you to report fraud.

A third type of fraud is stores buying FS card for half value and then using them to pay for items that other customers paid cash for. This means they get reimbursed for the full value. Sometime unscrupulous cashiers do this and pocket the cash.
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The biggest fraud, in terms of numbers, that I believe to be true, is the false household status.

Where an unmarried couple with children, who make more than the EBT threshold, falsely claims the size of the household to receive benefits.
Usually means that the woman, files as single, with children and no other household members.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
The biggest fraud, in terms of numbers, that I believe to be true, is the false household status.

Where an unmarried couple with children, who make more than the EBT threshold, falsely claims the size of the household to receive benefits.
Usually means that the woman, files as single, with children and no other household members.
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Dont they have to prove the number of people in the household?
 
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