• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Holder: No cover-up in 'Fast and Furious,' no effort to hide details of the operation

Re: Holder: No cover-up in 'Fast and Furious,' no effort to hide details of the opera

Based on the July 5, 2010, memo to Eric Holder, it would appear that Fast and Furious facilitated the delivery of weapons to — at a minimum — the Sinaloa cartel in Mexico.

So what happened Karl, did Holder forget to read the memo?
 
Re: Holder: No cover-up in 'Fast and Furious,' no effort to hide details of the opera

So what happened Karl, did Holder forget to read the memo?
Produce the memo, then I will address your question.
 
Re: Holder: No cover-up in 'Fast and Furious,' no effort to hide details of the opera

Produce the memo, then I will address your question.


:roll: Puhleeze...Like this is the first you've heard of this memo....:roll: Funny how you progressives all of the sudden get severe amnesia when crap like this is clearly out there, and been reported for some time, then you want all kinds of proof, and calls for your opponents on these boards to begin a never ending excercise in time wasting in order to prove something to you, as if you hold the difinitive word on anything.


What a joke.


j-mac
 
Re: Holder: No cover-up in 'Fast and Furious,' no effort to hide details of the opera

Based on the July 5, 2010, memo to Eric Holder, it would appear that Fast and Furious facilitated the delivery of weapons to — at a minimum — the Sinaloa cartel in Mexico.
So what happened Karl, did Holder forget to read the memo?
Produce the memo, then I will address your question.
ATF Fast and Furious: New documents show Attorney General Eric Holder was briefed in July 2010 - CBS News Investigates - CBS News
As expected, the memo does not support your claim: "it would appear that Fast and Furious facilitated the delivery of weapons to — at a minimum — the Sinaloa cartel in Mexico".

In fact, all the 17 page memo says (in two places) about the case is:

FnFMemo.jpg


So, based upon the facts (now that we have them), my questions to you are:

1. Where does the memo state that Fast and Furious "facilitated the delivery" of any weapons?

2. Where does the memo even explain exactly what Fast and Furious is?

3. Will you continue to unquestioningly believe everything you read at Pajamas Media?
 
Last edited:
Re: Holder: No cover-up in 'Fast and Furious,' no effort to hide details of the opera

Anything short of an outright admission, will only bring more spin....I am LOVIN' this more open and transparent administration....


j-mac
 
Re: Holder: No cover-up in 'Fast and Furious,' no effort to hide details of the opera

As expected, the memo does not support your claim: "it would appear that Fast and Furious facilitated the delivery of weapons to — at a minimum — the Sinaloa cartel in Mexico".

In fact, all the 17 page memo says (in two places) about the case is:

FnFMemo.jpg




So, based upon the facts (now that we have them), my questions to you are:

1. Where does the memo state that Fast and Furious "facilitated the delivery" of any weapons?

2. Where does the memo even explain exactly what Fast and Furious is?

What are you blind or illiterate ? Right on the 2nd sentence of the memo states about the trafficking of firearms. And as head of DOJ it's Holder's job to know exactly what Fast & Furious is about prior, during and after.

There's no way you can be that dense from being blinded by your partisan. If that's the case, then I am utterly convinced that Liberalism is a mental disorder.

3. Will you continue to unquestioningly believe everything you read at Pajamas Media?

Being an independent, I read and research from BOTH sides of the media and Eric Holder's hands are filthy dirty.
 
Last edited:
Re: Holder: No cover-up in 'Fast and Furious,' no effort to hide details of the opera

Tucson DEA Chief | Eric Holder | Gun-Walking | The Daily Caller

Former Tucson Drug Enforcement Administration chief Tony Coulson told The Daily Caller that Attorney General Eric Holder either knew guns were walking during Operation Fast and Furious, or should have known about the deadly practice.

“[Fast and Furious] was driven locally and it was driven from Arizona, from the ground up, I mean it was not much oversight,” Coulson said in a phone interview. “And, I mean, I can only speak to the reporting, but people all the way up to the attorney general knew what was going on.”

Coulson, who ran the DEA’s Tucson office during Fast and Furious’ implementation, told TheDC he learned that the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives was letting guns walk back in 2009 or 2010. He said he learned this from people who were working in the Phoenix Immigration and Customs Enforcement office. He didn’t know it was called “Fast and Furious,” but said it was widely known guns were walking.

“Nothing that [ATF] was doing was running into what we were doing at DEA from the Tucson level,” Coulson said. “Now, Phoenix was a little bit different. They were, their targets kept running into DEA cases and I think that was reported out of the House letter last week. But in Tucson, we weren’t running into them. How I became aware of it was through Immigration and Customs Enforcement.”

“At the time, [ATF’s] boss here, Bill Newell, was the face and the voice of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms,” Coulson added. “If you go back during this time, he’s the one who’s on every major national news station. He’s talking about weapons in Mexico. You know, he was the voice of ATF. I mean, he was driving ATF’s policy. There was very little oversight at the time from anyone on what was going on. I became aware of it because ICE interceded on more than one occasion to seize weapons at the port of entry that ATF was trying to walk into Mexico.”

ICE falls under the Department of Homeland Security, and with the news that Holder hasn’t discussed Fast and Furious with its Secretary Janet Napolitano or Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, there are likely to be new questions into what, if anything, those cabinet officials were told of Fast and Furious.


Read more: Tucson DEA Chief | Eric Holder | Gun-Walking | The Daily Caller

So maybe Napolitano and Clinton knew about it, too. Keep that maybe in mind, because we just dont know, DoJ, ATF etc havent exactly been forthcoming with documents.
 
Re: Holder: No cover-up in 'Fast and Furious,' no effort to hide details of the opera

Anything short of an outright admission, will only bring more spin....I am LOVIN' this more open and transparent administration....


j-mac

Democrats have the ability to argue with the proverbial fencepost down to a science.
 
Re: Holder: No cover-up in 'Fast and Furious,' no effort to hide details of the opera

What are you blind or illiterate ? Right on the 2nd sentence of the memo states about the trafficking of firearms.
Blind? No. Illiterate? Would I be typing this? Alas, it appears my fault is that I am too smart for your argument. I'd like to help you out, but I don't think I'm going to undergo a frontal lobotomy in order to attain the intellectual level of what you have presented so far. Let's review:

You claimed, in post #102: "Based on the July 5, 2010, memo to Eric Holder, it would appear that Fast and Furious facilitated the delivery of weapons to — at a minimum — the Sinaloa cartel in Mexico." (that is an exact quote, highlighting aside)

I proved, in post #106 (by citing the memo itself), that the memo said absolutely nothing about "Fast and Furious" facilitating the delivery of any weapons.

You reply above, somewhat hysterically IMHO, that the memo talks about the trafficking of firearms. Indeed it does; it talks about a trafficking ring run by what I presume is some Mexican bad guy. However, it certainly does not talk about the "Fast and Furious" operation itself trafficking in any firearms (even though that is kinda-sorta what happened, considering the gunwalking).

And as head of DOJ it's Holder's job to know exactly what Fast & Furious is about prior, during and after.
Again, I can't go the lobotomy route (even though the current GOP might need the vote), so the moronic nature of that claim speaks for itself.

There's no way you can be that dense from being blinded by your partisan. If that's the case, then I am utterly convinced that Liberalism is a mental disorder.
I would not rule out the possibility of mental illness in this exchange.

Being an independent, I read and research from BOTH sides of the media and Eric Holder's hands are filthy dirty.
Being an independent as well, I would try very hard to not quote a source such as Pajamas Media (as you did)... for what should now be obvious reasons (they failed you badly).
 
Re: Holder: No cover-up in 'Fast and Furious,' no effort to hide details of the opera

But I do like the Orwellian thrust of your logic -- since people are 'ignoring' the story means that the story is 'true'. Nice :lamo

Correction: It's "wingnut" logic
 
Re: Holder: No cover-up in 'Fast and Furious,' no effort to hide details of the opera

Correction: It's "wingnut" logic


Why don't you stop name calling, and trolling, or GTFO.


j-mac
 
Re: Holder: No cover-up in 'Fast and Furious,' no effort to hide details of the opera

Why don't you stop name calling, and trolling, or GTFO.


j-mac

That interesting considering all the "liberal jabs" you throw on a daily basis. Pot calling the kettle black again.
 
Re: Holder: No cover-up in 'Fast and Furious,' no effort to hide details of the opera

Why don't you stop name calling, and trolling, or GTFO.


j-mac

LOL!!!

WIngnuts hate it when their posts are described accurately
 
Re: Holder: No cover-up in 'Fast and Furious,' no effort to hide details of the opera

Being an independent as well, I would try very hard to not quote a source such as Pajamas Media (as you did)... for what should now be obvious reasons (they failed you badly).

Pajama media???? What the hell are you talking about? The source came from CBS news. That is a mainstream media outlet.

And no, you're posts do NOT reflect the views of an independent. You are as far left as they come.
 
Re: Holder: No cover-up in 'Fast and Furious,' no effort to hide details of the opera

Moderator's Warning:
Congratulations to our lucky winners sangha and j-mac who've won their own personal thread bans.

There are plenty more to go around. Few will enter, all will win. Just post your own bait post here in this thread to be considered for a brand new thread ban of your very own.
 
Re: Holder: No cover-up in 'Fast and Furious,' no effort to hide details of the opera

That interesting considering all the "liberal jabs" you throw on a daily basis. Pot calling the kettle black again.


Yeah, sometimes I get carried away, like that quote. I should have left it alone. But I don't think I am as abbrasive as that on a regular basis. If I am at times I don't mean to be, but I am human, and I do have bad days....These types of things from certain posters are on a daily, thread to thread basis, and it does nothing to further the conversation. I will work on my shortcomings, and only say that in heated moments, if I offend, I apologize.


j-mac
 
Re: Holder: No cover-up in 'Fast and Furious,' no effort to hide details of the opera

[...] Being an independent as well, I would try very hard to not quote a source such as Pajamas Media (as you did)... for what should now be obvious reasons (they failed you badly).
Pajama media???? What the hell are you talking about? The source came from CBS news. That is a mainstream media outlet. [...]
I'm talking about this unsourced quote that you posted:

Based on the July 5, 2010, memo to Eric Holder, it would appear that Fast and Furious facilitated the delivery of weapons to — at a minimum — the Sinaloa cartel in Mexico.
So what happened Karl, did Holder forget to read the memo?

Which you lifted from this previous post:

Um the information is lifted from here: PJ Media » Gunwalker: Justice Dept. Violated U.S. Laws Beyond Those Being Investigated

Look at their front page and the columnists there, some big voices for conservativism on the net.

Which links to Pajamas Media, a right wing blog which is the source of the now-debunked quote that you posted... not CBS News:

[paragraph 4, lead sentence] Based on the July 5, 2010, memo to Eric Holder, it would appear that Fast and Furious facilitated the delivery of weapons to — at a minimum — the Sinaloa cartel in Mexico. [...]

PJ Media » Gunwalker: Justice Dept. Violated U.S. Laws Beyond Those Being Investigated
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom