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Family: Boy, 15, shot to death after attacking police had autism disorder

nonpareil said:
I was talking about keeping the knives under lock before he could get his hands on them in the first place after that last 2 times. And when they couldn't control him, they should know that their son is probably not safe at home if for no other reason than that he could harm himself.
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He wasn't using a knife when he beat his mother.
 
MrVicchio said:
The tragedy is that people are thinking his "aspergers" made it wrong to cap his dumbass. You know what aspergers REALLY is? A condition of social awkwardness. My ex had my son diagnosed with that from a 15 min visit to a shrink who then promptly put him on pills.

We used to call those kids shy, now it's a "problem" with pills to solve.
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Aspergers isn't cured with a single pill :shrug: . . . it's not 'shyness' - it's an actual physical and cognitive condition and some of it's symptoms are 'shyness' - but those aren't the main factors or notable symptoms.

Obviously - your son didn't actually have aspergers.

so that brings up the point that all too often kids are diagnosed with something when they don't have it. Like ADD, ADHD, etc . . . sometimes we've seen that familial structure and diet are major issues - and they don't actually have ADD if a bit of understanding from mumsie resolves the problems.
 
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Personally? Given the number of instances in which the police were called to the house, and given the severity of the teen's behavior during those instances, there is a complete, systemic failure at play here. The police and parents should have been working together with state/mental health officials to have the teen temporarily institutionalized until such time as therapy and medication led to changes in behavior that lessened the likelihood of the teen being a threat to his family or the community. It is very, very obvious that the teen had displayed aggressive, threatening behavior for quite some time leading up to this scenario. Intervention should have occurred a very long time ago. There is absolutely no excuse for that intervention not taking place before this situation arose.

The parents obviously could not control the child. If they were able to, they would not have called the police so often. The police were obviously at a loss regarding the best approach with this child. Neither side was capable of facilitating the needed interaction with this boy to counter the aggressive behaviors.

If blame is to be placed, both entities failed. And, assuming either side at any point in time sought help from state/private facilities and those facilities did not respond or put a plan into motion I'd blame them partially as well...though it would be the responsibility of the parent to maintain pressure to get help for their child.
 
tessaesque said:
Personally? Given the number of instances in which the police were called to the house, and given the severity of the teen's behavior during those instances, there is a complete, systemic failure at play here. The police and parents should have been working together with state/mental health officials to have the teen temporarily institutionalized until such time as therapy and medication led to changes in behavior that lessened the likelihood of the teen being a threat to his family or the community. It is very, very obvious that the teen had displayed aggressive, threatening behavior for quite some time leading up to this scenario. Intervention should have occurred a very long time ago. There is absolutely no excuse for that intervention not taking place before this situation arose.

The parents obviously could not control the child. If they were able to, they would not have called the police so often. The police were obviously at a loss regarding the best approach with this child. Neither side was capable of facilitating the needed interaction with this boy to counter the aggressive behaviors.

If blame is to be placed, both entities failed. And, assuming either side at any point in time sought help from state/private facilities and those facilities did not respond or put a plan into motion I'd blame them partially as well...though it would be the responsibility of the parent to maintain pressure to get help for their child.
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Are you suggesting the police should have known this would have happened?
 
Connery said:
Are you suggesting the police should have known this would have happened?
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I am suggesting after being called to the house multiple times because the child was aggressive and threatening that somebody should have called in social services or acted as a witness for a psychological evaluation process that might have prevented actions like this. If the police department understood the threat well enough to send five officers to subdue the boy then they should have well known that the child was out of control and in need of further help...and so, too, should the parents.
 
tessaesque said:
I am suggesting after being called to the house multiple times because the child was aggressive and threatening that somebody should have called in social services or acted as a witness for a psychological evaluation process that might have prevented actions like this. If the police department understood the threat well enough to send five officers to subdue the boy then they should have well known that the child was out of control and in need of further help...and so, too, should the parents.
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This is what I gathered from another report.......This addresses your statement and this was the way the authorities other than the police were to handle this matter. Blaming the police is inappropriate in this situation.
Officials say they have been called to the Watts home 12 times since June 2010. The Watts family said doctors and social workers told them the only way to get Stephon hospitalized when he was violent was to call police first.
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Calumet City teen shot, killed by police in his home | abc7chicago.com
 
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tessaesque said:
I am suggesting after being called to the house multiple times because the child was aggressive and threatening that somebody should have called in social services or acted as a witness for a psychological evaluation process that might have prevented actions like this. If the police department understood the threat well enough to send five officers to subdue the boy then they should have well known that the child was out of control and in need of further help...and so, too, should the parents.
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That *child* made the decision as to what he wanted to do that day. Don't blame the cops. Blame the *child*.

Cops are sworn protect your ass, not kiss it.

Lessons Learned:

1. Listen to what a police officer tells you to do, when he tells you to do it.

2. Don't swing sharp objects like knives that can cut a police officer if struck by it.
 
sharon said:
He wasn't using a knife when he beat his mother.
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Which was not the accident that led to him being killed which led to this story.
 
ric27 said:
That *child* made the decision as to what he wanted to do that day. Don't blame the cops. Blame the *child*.

Cops are sworn protect your ass, not kiss it.

Lessons Learned:

1. Listen to what a police officer tells you to do, when he tells you to do it.

2. Don't swing sharp objects like knives that can cut a police officer if struck by it.
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That argument displays a profound ignorance in regards to Aspergers/Autism Spectrum Disorder.
 
Have also a case in Sweden in my hometown their the person was killed. In Sweden the procedures is to wait the person out and call in a psychologist. In the case in the hometown they instead confronted him and yelled at him for 15 minutes then he launched at them with a knife and he got killed. That I think was totally unnessicary because everyone had gotten out of the house and the exist was covered. So why not just wait him out.

That I understand the need for safety of the officers and the public. But in cases like this, why not wait the person out. If everyone have gotten out and the building can be surounded and guarded. Also why not try to get a psychologist to try to talk the person, if it possible in a safeway. That even in hostage situation it can be a good idea to wait the person out.
 
MaggieD said:
Very insightful. I agree with you that medication may have resolved this boy's problems. There's some pretty powerful psychotropic drugs out there that might have made a difference in this young boy's life. Sometimes, though, parents don't like to drug their children. I think that's an ongoing problem in some cases. I guess we'll never know what really went on here.
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You assume he hasn't already tried medication.

It can help some people with autism, but it's not foolproof.

Many communities are reaching out to their police forces to train them on how to recognize and handle autism, just like they do with mental illness.
 
ric27 said:
That *child* made the decision as to what he wanted to do that day. Don't blame the cops. Blame the *child*.

Cops are sworn protect your ass, not kiss it.

Lessons Learned:

1. Listen to what a police officer tells you to do, when he tells you to do it.

2. Don't swing sharp objects like knives that can cut a police officer if struck by it.
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3. Don't be an idiot and expect someone with a profound disorder in communication and behavior to understand 1 or 2. Don't blame either a child or a person with such a disorder for his decisions.
 
digsbe said:
The police were wrong. They should have used non-lethal force like a taser or aimed their shots somewhere else. The boy is mentally ill, they knew this and went in with 5 officers. The second they saw he had a knife they should have tased him. They acted improperly and due to their actions this person is now dead. However, if the boy was like this routinely he should have been hospitalized and placed on medications.
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If you are a cop and someone picks up a gun you shoot them, period. It's easy for us to criticize cops but they have family's they want to go home too. As far as the kid having mental problems, I'm sure many if not most that pull a gun on cops and shoot cops have mental problems. As far as the age of the kid, theres nothing scarier than a KID with a gun. Kids are used in wars precisely because they are kids and have no real grasp of exactly what is going on. Plenty of men in Nam were killed by so called kids, some of them like 11 years old. That is where the term "baby killer" got started, shooting a kid isn't fun but if they are going to shoot you, bye bye baby.
 
tessaesque said:
Personally? Given the number of instances in which the police were called to the house, and given the severity of the teen's behavior during those instances, there is a complete, systemic failure at play here. The police and parents should have been working together with state/mental health officials to have the teen temporarily institutionalized until such time as therapy and medication led to changes in behavior that lessened the likelihood of the teen being a threat to his family or the community. It is very, very obvious that the teen had displayed aggressive, threatening behavior for quite some time leading up to this scenario. Intervention should have occurred a very long time ago. There is absolutely no excuse for that intervention not taking place before this situation arose.

The parents obviously could not control the child. If they were able to, they would not have called the police so often. The police were obviously at a loss regarding the best approach with this child. Neither side was capable of facilitating the needed interaction with this boy to counter the aggressive behaviors.

If blame is to be placed, both entities failed. And, assuming either side at any point in time sought help from state/private facilities and those facilities did not respond or put a plan into motion I'd blame them partially as well...though it would be the responsibility of the parent to maintain pressure to get help for their child.
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I think you're pretty much right on target here. From Googling, it's apparent that LEOs are getting educated in the difficulties of handling violent children/adults who are mentally handicapped. Part of that education probably ought to be assessing the situation and getting social workers involved to help parents handle these kids. There's this, though: negotiating one's way through the social services available to a mentally handicapped child takes not a small amount of smarts, determination.and persistence. If one wants to get the most out of that system, one has to be smarter than the average bear. It's very possible the parents just didn't have the smarts to get their son the help he obviously needed.

Connery said:
This is what I gathered from another report.......This addresses your statement and this was the way the authorities other than the police were to handle this matter. Blaming the police is inappropriate in this situation:

Officials say they have been called to the Watts home 12 times since June 2010. The Watts family said doctors and social workers told them the only way to get Stephon hospitalized when he was violent was to call police first.
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This isn't true. And, even if it was, they'd been called to the home a dozen times -- several others including a knife and one involving a hostage negotiator. It's pretty certain in my mind that the LEOs probably offered the family that option in the past, and like many parents, they couldn't bear to do it.

The boy was also most likely on Medicaid. His parents are his guardians, as he is a minor. Getting him hospitalized for 24/48 hours would have been a piece of cake...in any of those other twelve encounters.

The parents and the system failed this child. I can't second guess the officers at the scene...but the failure happened long before this kid was shot to death.
 
Rereading the article, a thought just occurred to me. This kid, who was well known to the police. 12 incidents since June, 2010. considered violent enough to require the services of 5 well trained armed LEO, was on his way to school. Isn't a school a place where a large number of children go to learn something and should feel safe?
 
MaggieD said:
This isn't true.
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According to the source I cited it is true. If this was erroneous information provided to the Watts then it is negligence on the part of those "doctors and social workers".

And, even if it was, they'd been called to the home a dozen times -- several others including a knife and one involving a hostage negotiator. It's pretty certain in my mind that the LEOs probably offered the family that option in the past, and like many parents, they couldn't bear to do it.

The boy was also most likely on Medicaid. His parents are his guardians, as he is a minor. Getting him hospitalized for 24/48 hours would have been a piece of cake...in any of those other twelve encounters.

The parents and the system failed this child. I can't second guess the officers at the scene...but the failure happened long before this kid was shot to death.
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It could have been a hundred times the police were called this time was different and the police were harmed with a weapon that could have proven deadly.

MaggieD you are otherwise assuming a great deal of facts and injecting them into this situation. A negotiator was called previously, perhaps the boy was amenable to discussion and was compliant, perhaps there was no time to call a negotiator in this instance. Who knows?

Clearly this time the boy wielded a weapon and used it.
 
Connery said:
According to the source I cited it is true. If this was erroneous information provided to the Watts then it is negligence on the part of those "doctors and social workers".

It could have been a hundred times the police were called this time was different and the police were harmed with a weapon that could have proven deadly.

MaggieD you are otherwise assuming a great deal of facts and injecting them into this situation. A negotiator was called previously, perhaps the boy was amenable to discussion and was compliant, perhaps there was no time to call a negotiator in this instance. Who knows?

Clearly this time the boy wielded a weapon and used it.
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You're right that I'm assuming some things. I don't blame the LEO's, by the way. One just can't second guess what happened this particular time. My point was that "his parents and the system" let this kid down long before he was shot to death. Having a bestest friend with a mentally handicapped adult child, I've been more involved than many in this kind of situation. I know her reluctance to hospitalize him when he's violent...how hard she has to work the system to get the help she needs...how violent he can get when his emotions get out of control...and the ease with which she can get him hospitalized when he does go over the top.
 
MaggieD said:
You're right that I'm assuming some things. I don't blame the LEO's, by the way. One just can't second guess what happened this particular time. My point was that "his parents and the system" let this kid down long before he was shot to death. Having a bestest friend with a mentally handicapped adult child, I've been more involved than many in this kind of situation. I know her reluctance to hospitalize him when he's violent...how hard she has to work the system to get the help she needs...how violent he can get when his emotions get out of control...and the ease with which she can get him hospitalized when he does go over the top.
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The system let the boy and his family down I agree with that by far. Anyone who has had to deal with mental illness in the family can easily realize how much mental, emotional and spiritual energy it takes, sometimes, just to get through one day. These parents and the boy should have had an advocate to deal with the system and get this kid help. Obviously he presented a danger to himself or others many times. It appears that any one of those times he could have been placed under observation and given further medical/psychological assistance.

To my understanding there are no two situations that are alike when a police officer goes on duty and what occurred in this instance, while drastic, brings that point home.
 
misterman said:
3. Don't be an idiot and expect someone with a profound disorder in communication and behavior to understand 1 or 2. Don't blame either a child or a person with such a disorder for his decisions.
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Be civil :)

The attempt at using less-than-lethal force against an individual in a deadly force situation is not a prudent decision. The use of too little force can actually escalate a situation


Who knows, maybe this little thuglett just got stopped from killing people in a couple years when he feels that he is unstoppable.
 
FinnMacCool said:
I don't think it's anybody's fault. The cops did what they had to do, but the kid was suffering from a mental illness. There is no need to place any blame. It's just a terrible tragedy.
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Aspergers is not a mental illness, nor are autism spectrum disorders!
 
The way this child and his situation seemed to be escalating I am surprised this didn't turn out worse. As many times as the cops had been there, and some of the information about those incidents, as well as this incident gives some sight into this kid's mental state. He was dangerous. His family should have gotten him more help. This kid was very unstable. In a school or public environment, if he had one of these episodes (or whatever you want to call it) it could have been a disaster. The OP asked who was to blame, I think the parents were to blame. That child, in his state, should not have in a position to put himself into that type of position.
 
misterman said:
Your comment was extremely uncivil to people with autism, and children, and parent.
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If someone ever trys to taunt you into a knife fight, do something (like pull your gun), but dont fight him heads up with a knife. It's not a good death, and if he is a knife fighter, you will probably be the one dying (for sure). Not trying to be depressing, just speaking the truth. Don't **** with knife fighting. Turn it into a gunfight. **** the legal bull****. At least live. Deal with all that other **** later.

I would NOT send my pitbulls on a fool armed with a knife; I'll send bullets.

Nobody hurts my dog. Nobody

How's that for civility
 
ric27 said:
If someone ever trys to taunt you into a knife fight, do something (like pull your gun), but dont fight him heads up with a knife. It's not a good death, and if he is a knife fighter, you will probably be the one dying (for sure). Not trying to be depressing, just speaking the truth. Don't **** with knife fighting. Turn it into a gunfight. **** the legal bull****. At least live. Deal with all that other **** later.

I would NOT send my pitbulls on a fool armed with a knife; I'll send bullets.

Nobody hurts my dog. Nobody

How's that for civility
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Now you're being uncivil and irrational.
 
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