• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Ranger zaps off-leash dog walker with shock weapon

Moderator's Warning:
Threads merged
 
Re: Park ranger shoots man with stun gun for walking dogs off-leash

Bob Blaylock said:
Redundant thread. See http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...r-zaps-off-leash-dog-walker-shock-weapon.html.
Click to expand...
Yes, his was first by about 11 hrs. I didn't see his.

That's one of my few complaints about this place. It is so big, and has so many different and varied forums, that redundant threads are fairly common. It's easy for stuff to get lost. Not anybody's fault, but frustrating nonetheless.
 
sangha said:
Is that all you got?
Click to expand...

Here's a couple for you. It's so common I'm not going to bother with any more. Any one with an ounce of research skill could find many more.

Here's one that happened locally a couple months ago:

LOUISVILLE, Ky. -- Constable David Whitlock has been indicted by the Jefferson County grand jury.

Whitlock faces charges of second-degree assault and first-degree wanton endangerment.

Whitlock shot a woman outside a Walmart store in southwestern Jefferson County in early November. He told Louisville Metro police he was chasing a suspected shoplifter and she ran over his foot as she fled the parking lot.
Click to expand...
Read more: Embattled Constable Indicted By Grand Jury - Louisville News Story - WLKY Louisville


FOUNTAIN VALLEY — Police recommended Wednesday that Orange County prosecutors bring criminal assault charges against an off-duty Long Beach police officer who shot a motorist during a heated traffic dispute here over the weekend
Click to expand...


New Orleans - Five men who were police officers during Hurricane Katrina have been convicted of deprivation of rights and other civil rights violations associated to the deadly shootings on Danziger Bridge in New Orlean
Click to expand...

Read more: New Orleans police convicted in Danziger Bridge shooting

NOBLE, Okla. -- Cleveland County's top prosecutor has decided to prosecute two Noble officers involved in the shooting death of a 5-year-old boy.

Read more: Noble Officers To Be Prosecuted In Boy's Death - Oklahoma City News Story - KOCO Oklahoma City

When Phoenix police Officer Richard Chrisman and another patrolman arrived in response to her domestic-violence call, she asked them to reason with her son. She expected they would issue a warning and cool things down.
Instead, about 15 minutes later, Danny Frank Rodriquez was shot dead inside the trailer. One of the family's dogs was also fatally shot.
And Chrisman now faces felony charges.
Click to expand...

Read more: Phoenix police officer in fatal shooting arrested
 
Tigger said:
Which is part of the reason our country is headed down the toilet faster than the Titanic found the bottom of the North Atlantic.
Click to expand...

A ridiculous assertion. In fact, the exact opposite is true. Mindless fealty to authority figures is why we're on the long slide to mediocrity and poverty. We've lost the rugged individualism that made this nation strong.

It's also the basis of the form of Government (Authoritarianism) that I prefer.
Click to expand...

Why would you prefer a form of government that is demonstrably inferior to decentralized forms of government?

Very likely I would have. What's insane is giving false information to a LEO and then expecting you're just going to be allowed to walk away.
Click to expand...

Advocating the cold-blooded murder of someone who violated a petty park ordinance is beyond insane, it's psychopathic.

Brian
 
Last edited:
sangha said:
There was a lawful order. She told the man to not leave and she had cause to stop the man (ie the leashless dogs)
Click to expand...

What law requires us to obey such a command in such a circumstance?

Brian
 
Bob Blaylock said:
Can you imagine what this nation would be like today, if the great men who founded it had the attitude of mindlessly, blindly obeying any authority figure?
Click to expand...

I imagine this nation wouldn't exist at all if they had been such cowards.

Brian
 
In my opinion law enforcement get the benefit of the doubt in this situation. They do not hire any old Joe of the street for law enforcement positions, there are background checks, references etc. Law enforcement officers are not infallible but the whole point of giving them a badge is saying we are saying law enforcement is necessary and we give these departments the authority to enforce the laws.

Things simply would not function if everyone could question/ and disrespect law enforcement officers on everything. We would be back to the wild wild west.

Walking off in the middle of an officer writing a citation is blatant disrespect, and I can't imagine it would go well if you drove off while a traffic officer was writing you a citation.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
Paratrooper said:
In my opinion law enforcement get the benefit of the doubt in this situation. They do not hire any old Joe of the street for law enforcement positions, there are background checks, references etc. Law enforcement officers are not infallible but the whole point of giving them a badge is saying we are saying law enforcement is necessary and we give these departments the authority to enforce the laws.

Things simply would not function if everyone could question/ and disrespect law enforcement officers on everything. We would be back to the wild wild west.

Walking off in the middle of an officer writing a citation is blatant disrespect, and I can't imagine it would go well if you drove off while a traffic officer was writing you a citation.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Click to expand...

She wasn't writing a citation. According to witnesses, the man told her to either give him a citation or he was leaving.
 
Free_Radical said:
A ridiculous assertion. In fact, the exact opposite is true. Mindless fealty to authority figures is why we're on the long slide to mediocrity and poverty. We've lost the rugged individualism that made this nation strong.
Click to expand...

That rugged individualism included the ideal that people actually followed the rules for the most part, and that they expected to deal with the consequences when they did not follow the rules.

Free_Radical said:
Why would you prefer a form of government that is demonstrably inferior to decentralized forms of government?
Click to expand...

Because I have little to no trust or faith in the decency and morality of the general public at any level. Therefore I believe we need an overarching Governmental system to impose decency on the people as a whole.

Free_Radical said:
Advocating the cold-blooded murder of someone who violated a petty park ordinance is beyond insane, it's psychopathic.
Click to expand...

Pain and Fear are the only two Universally motivating factors in human beings. Sometimes you have to make an example of one or two in order to remind the others the consequences of stepping out of line.
 
Tigger said:
Pain and Fear are the only two Universally motivating factors in human beings.
Click to expand...
While pain (and it's corollary fear, which is the expectation of pain) is in the Top 5 of motivators it's far from first place. Reproduction is the biggest universal motivator. If it weren't we wouldn't be here. Food (and sometimes the perception of future gains in food) is also a huge motivator - probably #2 on the list. Pleasure is also right up there in the Top 5 even when not attached to reproduction or food. Few people would starve to death rather than steal food even if pain is a virtual guarantee for stealing. A hot chick (if that's your sexual leaning) can motivate someone just as much if not more than a huge brute with a promise of pain (fear).
 
Last edited:
MoSurveyor said:
While pain (and it's corollary fear, which is the expectation of pain) is in the Top 5 of motivators it's far from first place. Reproduction is the biggest universal motivator. If it weren't we wouldn't be here. Food (and sometimes the perception of future gains in food) is also a huge motivator - probably #2 on the list. Pleasure is also right up there in the Top 5 even when not attached to reproduction or food. Few people would starve to death rather than steal food even if pain is a virtual guarantee for stealing. A hot chick (if that's your sexual leaning) can motivate someone just as much if not more than a huge brute with a promise of pain (fear).
Click to expand...

UNIVERSAL Motivators, MO. Food is the only UNIVERSAL concept you've mentioned. For one, I have no interest in Reproduction. I know others who have no interest in Pleasure. FEAR and PAIN do truly motivate every individual in the world. This is a topic for another time and place, however.
 
Tigger said:
UNIVERSAL Motivators, MO. Food is the only UNIVERSAL concept you've mentioned. For one, I have no interest in Reproduction. I know others who have no interest in Pleasure. FEAR and PAIN do truly motivate every individual in the world. This is a topic for another time and place, however.
Click to expand...
I agree it's too big to address as a side issue but I will leave you with these thoughts. First, I can't imagine anyone not interested in sex - must be some medical issue 'cause it sure ain't normal. Second, pain and pleasure are often considered two sides of the same coin (though I'm not sure I agree with that).
 
MoSurveyor said:
That's an update. The original article did not (and could not) have details that have come to light during the subsequent investigation.
Click to expand...

Here comes the park spin to the rescue. It was abusive given the nature of the incident. Until I hear something more conclusive, I still say she needs to be tasered for a while herself. Just you imagine if this had been a male ranger tasering a female walking her dog. Yeah, he would have been on suspension and probably fired.
 
Last edited:
Manc Skipper said:
Anyone who wilfully disobeys an armed law officer in the execution of her duty, deserves whatever comes his way.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I love your Gestapo mentality. :roll:
 
American said:
Here comes the park spin to the rescue. It was abusive given the nature of the incident. Until I hear something more conclusive, I still say she needs to be tasered for a while herself. Just you imagine if this had been a male ranger tasering a female walking her dog. Yeah, he would have been on suspension and probably fired.
Click to expand...
If that's directed at me then you missed some earlier posts. When MaggieD asked what the ranger should have done my response was:
If the suspect in question is not a threat then the best course would be continued surveillance and a radio call for back-up ...
Click to expand...
The reasons a LEO might use a taser shouldn't be much different than those for using any lethal weapon (a baton is a lethal weapon). To me it's a (usually) non-lethal substitute for a lethal weapon. (There are times when firearm use is warranted, too.) Given only the facts in the OP the ranger should not have used the taser.
 
Tigger said:
Which is part of the reason our country is headed down the toilet faster than the Titanic found the bottom of the North Atlantic.
Click to expand...

In the "good old days" people would have been allowed to walk their dogs without it being a criminal act.
 
MoSurveyor said:
If that's directed at me then you missed some earlier posts. When MaggieD asked what the ranger should have done my response was: The reasons a LEO might use a taser shouldn't be much different than those for using any lethal weapon (a baton is a lethal weapon). To me it's a (usually) non-lethal substitute for a lethal weapon. (There are times when firearm use is warranted, too.) Given only the facts in the OP the ranger should not have used the taser.
Click to expand...

Actually it was just directed at PT's linked article. Sorry, didn't mean to point at you.
 
1Perry said:
In the "good old days" people would have been allowed to walk their dogs without it being a criminal act.
Click to expand...

I'm mixed on this. I have always had obedient dogs that can be trusted off leash but there are other dogs that are vicious and can kill people. Some people think because the dog is nice around their family that it will be nice to strangers which is not always the case.

I think the government makes these blanket rules for efficiency. It would be nice if you could have some kind of temperament exam and be allowed to have the dog off leash if you have vet documentation or something to back it up.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
Paratrooper said:
I'm mixed on this. I have always had obedient dogs that can be trusted off leash but there are other dogs that are vicious and can kill people. Some people think because the dog is nice around their family that it will be nice to strangers which is not always the case.
Click to expand...

I would never allow one of our dogs off leash either even though at least the one wouldn't bite you even if you put your hand in it' mouth. But the point was that "back in the old days people were respectful to law officers". I do not disagree that people are less so but when there are those who want to control nearly every aspect of everyone's life, I can understand the push back.

In the "old days" the officer most likely would have simply informed the person about the new law and allowed them to go on their way.

I think the government makes these blanket rules for efficiency. It would be nice if you could have some kind of temperament exam and be allowed to have the dog off leash if you have vet documentation or something to back it up.
Click to expand...

Or understand that the overwhelming vast majority of people are responsible with their pets. I'm not big on creating laws where 60 million people walk their dog with no problem but in one case there is.
 
1Perry said:
In the "good old days" people would have been allowed to walk their dogs without it being a criminal act.
Click to expand...

In the "good olde days" there wouldn't have been a public park like that. It would have been private property and letting your dogs loose on my property would likely have lead to me coming out with a gun to ensure that both you and the dogs got off my property and stayed off it, one way or another. It's STILL legal to shoot dogs that bother livestock in most states.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom