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Wash. has enough votes to legalize gay marriage

We don't care. We shower with gays, eat with gays, bunk with gays...it's not a problem.

Aren't you worried you'll catch gay?
 
Clearly there is an inconsistancy in what you are saying, I'm just trying to find out if you realize that.

I do not believe there is an inconsistancy in my beliefs on this topic. If you do, fine. That's your problem, not mine.
 
I do not believe there is an inconsistancy in my beliefs on this topic. If you do, fine. That's your problem, not mine.

I just showed you where the inconsistancy was. You said you respect the military (and the SEALS) which have values and morals of that which you do not respect. You have also pointed that those that voluntarily support such an organization with morals and balues you do not agree with are just as guilty.

Is admitting your inconsistancy that bad?
 
Is admitting your inconsistancy that bad?

Again, I don't believe there is an inconsistancy to admit to. I will say that I have less respect for the US Military now than I did, say 15-20 years ago, and that I would be willing to bet that my level of respect for the US Military will probably continue to drop before it goes back up; mostly due to the fact that they are moving away from the Traditional Values I believe in; but I do believe that most of what the US Military teaches today is still decent. Not all of it, but most of it.
 
I just showed you where the inconsistancy was. You said you respect the military (and the SEALS) which have values and morals of that which you do not respect. You have also pointed that those that voluntarily support such an organization with morals and balues you do not agree with are just as guilty.

Is admitting your inconsistancy that bad?

What if I told you.....Homosexuality is more than just a violation of 'traditional morals'. It destroys individuals, attempts to destabilize the family and rots a nation across....
 
The amount of money this country spends both for and against gay marriage is staggering. Whether or not you personally agree with gay marriage is really irrelevant. The two people in the marriage are the only two it is relevant to. If a church, group of people, or individuals, ect dont want to reckognize is not relevant. The federal government needs to acknowledge it and stop wasting money fighting for/against it. Allowing same sex marriage harms no one. There is really no downside to it. Pass is nationally and let those who don't like pretend its not there. Allowing SS marriage is detrimental in any way.
 
What if I told you.....Homosexuality is more than just a violation of 'traditional morals'. It destroys individuals, attempts to destabilize the family and rots a nation across....

I'd say your nuts. Next?
 
I would ask how.

I do know that you cannot live two lifestyles in the military and that open homosexuality as a life style is incompatible with military service.

Open homosexuality does not change just DADT. Once that happens they will have to change DOMA, allow marriage and let them move into housing. And THAT will cause problems.

There is no good reason to do this and every reason not to. Service in the US military is not a right. Every country that has allowed it is a shell of their former military selves if they were ever any good at all. Open homosexuality is not the cause, it's a symptom. But it is real.

It is much like the females. We kid ourselves. We say "They are fully integrated, they're just as good, it's ok." In some cases it is close to the truth. There are some very good female soldiers. No matter how good they are, they aren't the same. And we don't do different well.

Black soldiers are no more "fully integrated" now than they were 30 years ago. Anyone that believes there isn't racism in the Army is a fool. And not just a bit. And not just one way.

The Army is falling apart and this will do nothing but hasten the problem.
 
Black soldiers are no more "fully integrated" now than they were 30 years ago. Anyone that believes there isn't racism in the Army is a fool. And not just a bit. And not just one way.

The Army is falling apart and this will do nothing but hasten the problem.

So what you're saying is you are for blacks and women NOT being integrated into the military?

Just like ANY organization, there are bad apples. We could kick all the minorities, gays, and women out of the military and there would STILL be rapes on civilians, murders, and a heap of other bad behavior. It's about as stupid as saying if there were no guns, there would be no more murder. While you would lower the death to guns, you wouldn't eliminate deaths.

Just like you wouldn't elimiate bad behavior if you took out minorities, women, and gays.
 
What if I told you.....Homosexuality is more than just a violation of 'traditional morals'. It destroys individuals, attempts to destabilize the family and rots a nation across....

I'd say you are provably wrong.
 
I do know that you cannot live two lifestyles in the military and that open homosexuality as a life style is incompatible with military service.

Open homosexuality does not change just DADT. Once that happens they will have to change DOMA, allow marriage and let them move into housing. And THAT will cause problems.

There is no good reason to do this and every reason not to. Service in the US military is not a right. Every country that has allowed it is a shell of their former military selves if they were ever any good at all. Open homosexuality is not the cause, it's a symptom. But it is real.

It is much like the females. We kid ourselves. We say "They are fully integrated, they're just as good, it's ok." In some cases it is close to the truth. There are some very good female soldiers. No matter how good they are, they aren't the same. And we don't do different well.

Black soldiers are no more "fully integrated" now than they were 30 years ago. Anyone that believes there isn't racism in the Army is a fool. And not just a bit. And not just one way.

The Army is falling apart and this will do nothing but hasten the problem.

I'd say this is the most ignorance I've seen displayed in quite a while.

Misinformation, myths, and denial do not make for "fact" or informative debate.
 
I'd say this is the most ignorance I've seen displayed in quite a while.

Misinformation, myths, and denial do not make for "fact" or informative debate.

What, you haven't seen how all those countries who allowed gays to serve openly have been invaded and conquered?
 
I do know that you cannot live two lifestyles in the military and that open homosexuality as a life style is incompatible with military service.

How is this incompatible? Please explain.

Open homosexuality does not change just DADT. Once that happens they will have to change DOMA, allow marriage and let them move into housing. And THAT will cause problems.

Why? And what problems? The only problem i can think of is intolerance.

There is no good reason to do this and every reason not to.

Yet you cannot name them.
"They are fully integrated, they're just as good, it's ok." In some cases it is close to the truth. There are some very good female soldiers. No matter how good they are, they aren't the same. And we don't do different well.

Black soldiers are no more "fully integrated" now than they were 30 years ago. Anyone that believes there isn't racism in the Army is a fool. And not just a bit. And not just one way.

Have you been on a military base even remotely recently? The vast majority of people in the military are not racist or sexist when it comes down to it.

I'm sorry to say this, and I honestly try not to on these forums, but you are ignorant.
 
Aren't you worried you'll catch gay?

A tent full of hetero guys acts a hell of a lot gayer (flirting, jokes, etc) then any gay man I ever met. Typical locker-room stuff only 24/7/365.
 
So what you're saying is you are for blacks and women NOT being integrated into the military?

Just like ANY organization, there are bad apples. We could kick all the minorities, gays, and women out of the military and there would STILL be rapes on civilians, murders, and a heap of other bad behavior. It's about as stupid as saying if there were no guns, there would be no more murder. While you would lower the death to guns, you wouldn't eliminate deaths.

Just like you wouldn't elimiate bad behavior if you took out minorities, women, and gays.

Random noise from the peanut gallery here: Yes, women should be taken out of the military, because they refuse to meet the same standard as men. It's not only PT, it's behavior, accommodation and job performance as well.

Gays should be allowed because they perform to standard and do not disrupt "good order and discipline". Women do. Gays do not require a host of special treatment.
 
I do know that you cannot live two lifestyles in the military and that open homosexuality as a life style is incompatible with military service.

How is a "homosexual lifestyle" different than a "heterosexual lifestyle"? And why is it that the "homosexual lifestyle" would clash with the "military lifestyle, but the "heterosexual lifestyle" (especially of young military men and women) doesn't?

I was active duty Navy for almost ten years. The young straight men were way more promiscuous than the gay men I knew. My division knew who was gay and who wasn't and none of us cared. The only thing that mattered to us was that you did your job because we needed every person we could get who was competent enough to do the job. Every time we lost a person (or two) to DADT, it made someone else's life in my department that much worse.
 
Yes, women should be taken out of the military, because they refuse to meet the same standard as men. It's not only PT, it's behavior, accommodation and job performance as well.

What is it exactly that women "refuse" to do? Not being snide here. Honestly don't know, and would like to know.

(sorry for the thread-jack)
 
What is it exactly that women "refuse" to do? Not being snide here. Honestly don't know, and would like to know.

(sorry for the thread-jack)

Yesterday was a perfect example: Planning a surprise 21st b-day party for a female soldier was more important than clearing the foot of snow off the 300x300ft landing zone.
 
Male soldiers are never "focused" on the "wrong" thing?

Who's in charge?
 
Yesterday was a perfect example: Planning a surprise 21st b-day party for a female soldier was more important than clearing the foot of snow off the 300x300ft landing zone.

That's more of a lack of discipline than a female problem. I hope your chain of command did the right thing in repremanding those soldiers.
 
I'd say you are provably wrong.

I'll tell you what....My view on Gay marriage is the same as Obama's

1 Obama has gone on record extensively that he is AGAINST gay marriage as a policy but is also against DOMA and a constitutional amendment

2 Obama is for civil unions and equal partnership rights

I agree on all counts which is the very least most would accept when their position is not one based purely on hatred of the gay population.

I think that the bible, Old Testament and New, teach that homosexual behavior is a sin and it is wrong. Not a crime, which has civil/criminal penalties, but a sin. An offense against God. But the same Bible says that the Church only has the right to judge/admonish/instruct, etc those who are in the Church, i.e. have signed on the dotted line and in essence agreed on the rules. Not those who are outside.

Carrying that a step further, on the civil side, I don't have any problem with what consenting adults want to do with each other as long as they are the only ones affected. Homo sex in someone else's bedroom doesn't affect me, so big deal.
 
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