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Romney reveals he pays about 15% in taxes(edited)

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Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

And that proposal caught my interest! Unfortunately, I found that it was $4 trillion over ten years meaning only 400 billion a year, which lowers, but does not remove, our deficit. It also included 110 billion a year by moving out of a war that was going to end anyway. Further in, the details didn't thrill me much, either.

However, as I'm not looking for perfect, I won't deny this was at least somewhat of a movement in the right direction.

Yeah, it was only $400 billion a year. Although that's not as far off the mark as it may seem at first glance. Most budget analysts and economists and whatnot argue that we need to cut between say $600 billion a year and $800 billion a year to balance the budget, not the full $1.4 trillion. As we pull out of the recession revenues automatically go up as more people work and get raises and companies make more profits and whatnot and spending automatically goes down as people roll off unemployment and food stamps and medicaid and whatnot. If we cut somewhere in the $600b to $800b range, we should be back on track within a couple years.

That doesn't mean we can't cut the deficit more than that. Ideally I'd like to be paying down the debt. But, $400b is actually a pretty decisive step in the right direction.

Including ending the wars faster than budgeted is a legitimate savings relative to the budget. When they say we need to cut $600 to $800b they mean relative to the existing budget not relative to current spending necessarily.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

death tax advocates claim (without any evidence) that the Heirs did nothing to "earn" the wealth and then argue a government that already taxed the wealth when it was being created somehow deserve it more

Without any evidence!?!?!?!?!? Turtle, you are talking about winning the lottery through the accident of birth. There is no DESERVE in this equation.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Without any evidence!?!?!?!?!? Turtle, you are talking about winning the lottery through the accident of birth. There is no DESERVE in this equation.
there is that envy thing coming in again. who cares? its not your money and the fact that your parents may not have been able to leave you something in no way justifies you whining about what others were left
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

No it doesn't....

Estate Tax
Estate and Gift Taxes
Frequently Asked Questions on Estate Taxes

Etc.

The "death tax" is just a phrase right wingers came up with in relatively recent history to try to make it sound mean to ask mega millionaires to pay taxes.

that is spot on. Here is the modern origin of the term and it is easy to see the motivation and where it comes from

Estate tax in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Political use of "death tax" as a synonym for "estate tax" was encouraged by Jack Faris of the National Federation of Independent Business[42] during the Speakership of Newt Gingrich.
Well-known Republican pollster Frank Luntz wrote that the term "death tax" "kindled voter resentment in a way that 'inheritance tax' and 'estate tax' do not".[43]
Linguist George Lakoff states that the term "death tax" is a deliberate and carefully calculated neologism used as a propaganda tactic to aid in efforts to repeal estate taxes. The use of "death tax" rather than "estate tax" in the wording of questions in the 2002 National Election Survey increased support for estate tax repeal by only a few percentage points.[44]

It is dishonest and an act of intellectual fraud to know the reality of the situation but still bow to ones ideological marching orders and engage in this travesty of language intended to deceive.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

that was part of the death tax law

Yes it is. Weird you were unaware of it. So I gather you concede the argument about double taxation is bs then?
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

so tell me Haymarket why does the government deserve even a penny given all that wealth was massively taxed (some at 90%) during its accumulation? and don't your arguments apply to any estates hit by the death tax

Wait a minute. Your premise is fatally flawed. Anytime people point to past tax rates of 90% (as you did here) we are quickly and repeatedly told by the warriors of the right that such numbers were a fantasy and in reality the actual tax rate paid was much much lower.

So which is it Turtle?
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

that is spot on. Here is the modern origin of the term and it is easy to see the motivation and where it comes from

Estate tax in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



It is dishonest and an act of intellectual fraud to know the reality of the situation but still bow to ones ideological marching orders and engage in this travesty of language intended to deceive.

I love watching this passionate defense of the abomination known as the death tax
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

YOu are lying again. The 627 Estate Closing letter I received from the IRS referred to the amount of Ohio State DEATH TAXES

you are wrong again

I produced the link and language to the official IRS site.
Teamosil produced several links on the estate tax.
You have produced NOTHING except undocumented assertions and unverified claims.

If you want to be taken seriously in debate, please present your evidence.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Wait a minute. Your premise is fatally flawed. Anytime people point to past tax rates of 90% (as you did here) we are quickly and repeatedly told by the warriors of the right that such numbers were a fantasy and in reality the actual tax rate paid was much much lower.

So which is it Turtle?

nice diversion
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Yeah, it was only $400 billion a year. Although that's not as far off the mark as it may seem at first glance. Most budget analysts and economists and whatnot argue that we need to cut between say $600 billion a year and $800 billion a year to balance the budget, not the full $1.4 trillion. As we pull out of the recession revenues automatically go up as more people work and get raises and companies make more profits and whatnot and spending automatically goes down as people roll off unemployment and food stamps and medicaid and whatnot. If we cut somewhere in the $600b to $800b range, we should be back on track within a couple years.

That doesn't mean we can't cut the deficit more than that. Ideally I'd like to be paying down the debt. But, $400b is actually a pretty decisive step in the right direction.

Including ending the wars faster than budgeted is a legitimate savings relative to the budget. When they say we need to cut $600 to $800b they mean relative to the existing budget not relative to current spending necessarily.

Again, a further look at economics will bear out the principals presented.

However, I'm still libertarian and want to see far more drastic cuts and I was still uncomfortable with where the spending cuts happened and where the additional revenue was generated.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

I love watching this passionate defense of the abomination known as the death tax

I love that the right wingers who try to argue against the estate tax can never actually counter the arguments in favor of it and just start desperately making emo appeals instead.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

I produced the link and language to the official IRS site.
Teamosil produced several links on the estate tax.
You have produced NOTHING except undocumented assertions and unverified claims.

If you want to be taken seriously in debate, please present your evidence.

You were educated several times in the last year over the fact that even the IRS uses the term death tax

you pretended that only right wingers use this term to describe the abomination that vests upon the death of a high net taxpayer
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

I love that the right wingers who try to argue against the estate tax can never actually counter the arguments in favor of it and just start desperately making emo appeals instead.


there are no sound arguments in favor of the death tax that are not based on envy or greed
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

there are no sound arguments in favor of the death tax that are not based on envy or greed

I love that the right wingers who try to argue against the estate tax can never actually counter the arguments in favor of it and just start desperately making emo appeals instead.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

there is that envy thing coming in again. who cares? its not your money and the fact that your parents may not have been able to leave you something in no way justifies you whining about what others were left

ENVY is you playing the right wing version of the all purpose RACE card. And you know what you and the other warriors of the far right say when your enemies do it.

I have no problem with any parent leaving hundreds of billions of dollars to anyone they want to leave it to. I simply want them to pay tax on acquiring that income the same way all the rest of the workers pay tax on their income.

How can anyone object to that principle of equality and fair treatment under the law?
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

there are no sound arguments in favor of the death tax that are not based on envy or greed

You have been given many.

You have ignored many.

You pretend here that you have not seen them when they have been handed to you in post after post after post in thread after thread after thread.

Winston Churchill. Bill Gates. Andrew Carnegie. Warren Buffett.

What do they have to be envious about as they all endorsed the inheritance tax?

The reality of the historical record proves you wrong Turtle.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

ENVY is you playing the right wing version of the all purpose RACE card. And you know what you and the other warriors of the far right say when your enemies do it.

I have no problem with any parent leaving hundreds of billions of dollars to anyone they want to leave it to. I simply want them to pay tax on acquiring that income the same way all the rest of the workers pay tax on their income.

How can anyone object to that principle of equality and fair treatment under the law?

why do you limit your rant to billions

and why are you so enamored with the government taking more and more private wealth?

do you actually BELIEVE the government needs all this money and spends it wisely?
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

You were educated several times in the last year over the fact that even the IRS uses the term death tax

you pretended that only right wingers use this term to describe the abomination that vests upon the death of a high net taxpayer

So lets see it from you then. I produced my evidence. Teamosil produced his evidence. You only produce unsubstantiated and unverified claims.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

why do you limit your rant to billions

and why are you so enamored with the government taking more and more private wealth?

do you actually BELIEVE the government needs all this money and spends it wisely?

Why do you keep moving he goal posts after you are proven wrong in your previous posts?

I do not see how anyone could object to ALL Americans paying income tax on money going into their pocket or accounts. That is the essence of fairness.
 
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carnegie left his wife sums that come up to be over 125 MILLION. the uber wealthy's estates regenerate rather quickly
in cases where grandparents and parents die less than 40 years apart the wealth of the family is diminished, when its less than 20 years the estate often will never recover.

the bottom line-people who argue for the death tax ooze envy or they truly believe that the government NEEDS and is ENTITLED to more and more private wealth

so why not tax everyone's estates?

actually if you want an estate tax it should be directed to those who did not pay federal income taxes during their lifetime

right now it is nothing but a SURCHARGE on the most overtaxed citizens when it comes to federal taxes

and the next time any of you whine that you pay a higher federal tax rate than Romney figure out his lifetime federal tax rate with the death tax figured into that
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Okay, folks. My basic stance is that the death tax is a punishment for looking out for your family with income that you were already taxed on. I'm not hyper-partisan or even really right wing. Show me those arguments and let's discuss. I apologize for my laziness, but I'm not going back through 177 pages in this thread and every other thread to find the arguments. Please bear with me and present those arguments succinctly again.

As for the semantics of the name, you can call a stable the Mariott, but that doesn't stop it from smelling like poop and I won't look forward to staying there. I don't call lots of government programs by their presented name. Convince me this isn't a barn full of dung and fat animals.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Why do you keep moving he goal posts after you are proven wrong in your previous posts?

I do not see how anyone could object to ALL Americans paying income tax on money going into their pocket or accounts. That is the essence of fairness.

no the real essence of fairness is not taxing ONLY those who already pay massive income taxes

lets get rid of the abomination in its entirety


(and tell me why that is wrong-the people who pay the death tax are the ones who pay 40% of the federal income taxes)
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

no the real essence of fairness is not taxing ONLY those who already pay massive income taxes

lets get rid of the abomination in its entirety


(and tell me why that is wrong-the people who pay the death tax are the ones who pay 40% of the federal income taxes)
no such thing as a 'death' tax...
 
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