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Romney reveals he pays about 15% in taxes(edited)

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Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

grip said:
You're the only one mentioning the fact that he introduced race into a post. And what was your point of your mentioning it, if not for the sole point of insinuating that it was done inappropriately?
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So in your mind, the great offense was not the silly introduction of RACE into a thread about taxation but the fact that somebody noticed.

You claiming that there was bigotry involved exists only in your mind. It is NOT in my post.

Amazing. really amazing.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

j-mac said:
Plus it would shift the Marxist approach of looking at success as some kind of moral failing.

j-mac
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Groucho, Chico or Harpo?
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

MaggieD said:
Payroll "taxes" are not taxes. They are insurance premiums.
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Sorry Maggie - but a tax is a tax is a tax no matter what it is used for or what benefit one derives from it.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Catawba said:
From the politifact finding:

"We asked two researchers at the Urban Institute-Brookings Institute Tax Policy Center, Roberton Williams and Rachel Johnson, for their advice on how to factor in payroll taxes. They estimated that combining the workers’ share of the payroll tax with the employer’s share -- the usual practice among economists -- would mean an extra 15 percentage points for our hypothetical middle-class worker, and less than 2 additional percentage points for the high-income taxpayer.

"Adding these to the percentages we previously found for the income tax alone produces a new, "final" rate of 22 to 23 percent for the construction worker and 20 to 30 percent for the $50 million earner."

And what makes Romney's effective tax rate only 13.9% is that because his income is primarily from investment income, he pays virtually no payroll taxes on his entire income.
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Effective tax rate has nothing to do with FICA. FICA is not a tax...it's an insurance premium. What don't you get about that?

haymarket said:
actually, its right on the money

Tax Brackets (Federal Income Tax Rates) 2000 through 2011 and 2012
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Perhaps you missed my post the first time you mentioned this fallacy. Tax Brackets have little to do with one's effective tax rate. Two very different measures. To compare a tax bracket % against an effective tax rate is apples to oranges.


MaggieD said:
If we really want to effect change, we've got to demonstrate we know what we're talking about...and not have our opinions discounted because "they just don't understand it."

A waitress with one child making $30,000 claiming only the standard deductions pays an effective rate of 3.65%. And that's not taking into consideration that she probably doesn't report all her tips. ;)

Marginal Tax Rate Calculator
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Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

haymarket said:
Sorry Maggie - but a tax is a tax is a tax no matter what it is used for or what benefit one derives from it.
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Only in your world -- and others who haven't taken the time to think it through.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Samhain said:
And your 22% number doesn't count deductions. Add in a child, or get married, and that number drops to the low teens.
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Yes they do, read the Politfacts findings.

If you increase the amount of funds that are available to the payroll tax(i.e. remove the 106k cap, or include all income ), you have to increase the benefits of those programs. So in the end, you make higher income earners pay more into the system while also giving them back more in benefits.
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Not at all, we have increased the cap many times without increasing the benefits to the rich.

MaggieD said:
Payroll "taxes" are not taxes. They are insurance premiums.
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Since 1969 Social Security receipts have been deposited into the General fund and spent as any other money in the general fund. SS receipts as part of the General Fund were used to offset the lack of federal revenue caused by the tax cuts for the last 30 years. Without that funding through payroll taxes our National debt would be trillions more than it is now, and the rich would not have been able to enjoy the last 30 years of tax cuts.
 
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Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Catawba said:
Since 1969 Social Security receipts have been deposited into the General fund and spent as any other money in the general fund. SS receipts as part of the General Fund were used to offset the lack of federal revenue caused by the tax cuts for the last 30 years. Without that funding through payroll taxes our National debt would be trillions more than it is now.
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What does this have to do with the cost of tea in China, Cat?
 
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Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

haymarket said:
My pay stub says otherwise.

The law authorizing that tax says otherwise.

The US government says otherwise.
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FICA = Federal Insurance Contributions Act. Yes, it is called a tax. It is really an insurance premium.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Catawba said:
Yes they do, read the Politfacts findings.



Not at all, we have increased the cap many times without increasing the benefits to the rich.



Since 1969 Social Security receipts have been deposited into the General fund and spent as any other money in the general fund. SS receipts as part of the General Fund were used to offset the lack of federal revenue caused by the tax cuts for the last 30 years. Without that funding through payroll taxes our National debt would be trillions more than it is now, and the rich would not have been able to enjoy the last 30 years of tax cuts.
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Let me guess, another graduate of the Haymarket School of Economics?
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Catawba said:
Yes they do, read the Politfacts findings.
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I did. And it states: $50,000-a-year teacher, the equivalent rate(both income and payroll taxes ) in 2010 would have been 25.3 percent if single and without children, 19.9 percent if married without children, and 14.1 percent if married with two children under age 17.

So when I said "And your 22% number doesn't count deductions. Add in a child, or get married, and that number drops to the low teens.", I was paraphrasing the article.

Catawba said:
Not at all, we have increased the cap many times without increasing the benefits to the rich.
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Goto the SS.gov website, and start entering numbers. Once you hit the cap of $106,000/yr , no matter how much more you make, your benefits max out at about 3,600 a month. If they increase the cap, you can bet your arse that the max benefit will grow too.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

MaggieD said:
FICA = Federal Insurance Contributions Act. Yes, it is called a tax. It is really an insurance premium.
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It comes out of my check.
The government takes it.
It contributes to by net pay.
It is a tax.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Meathead said:
Let me guess, another graduate of the Haymarket School of Economics?
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Would you like a pamphlet how you too can enroll, study long hours for several years and then be a graduate opening up the brave new world of government and finance to you? ;)


btw - the main things we look for in prospective enrollee are common sense and an understanding of the real world as opposed to kool-aid belief systems and ivory tower books about theories.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Samhain said:
I did. And it states: $50,000-a-year teacher, the equivalent rate(both income and payroll taxes ) in 2010 would have been 25.3 percent if single and without children, 19.9 percent if married without children, and 14.1 percent if married with two children under age 17.

So when I said "And your 22% number doesn't count deductions. Add in a child, or get married, and that number drops to the low teens.", I was paraphrasing the article.



.
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Serious question here: in your opinion, based on what you presented to us, do you think there are people making average salaries in the 50K range who pay a higher effective tax rate than Mitt Romney?
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

haymarket said:
Would you like a pamphlet how you too can enroll, study long hours for several years and then be a graduate opening up the brave new world of government and finance to you? ;)


btw - the main things we look for in prospective enrollee are common sense and an understanding of the real world as opposed to kool-aid belief systems and ivory tower books about theories.
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I really would like to see one of those pamphlets. Unfortunately, I am a university graduate but I was thinking that you might appeal to special needs students and the OWS crowd. I suspect that there your economic theories might be well received.;)
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Samhain said:
I did.
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Than I'm sure you saw that they averaged the results from all those in the $50,000 - $75,000 income range.


Goto the SS.gov website, and start entering numbers. Once you hit the cap of $106,000/yr , no matter how much more you make, your benefits max out at about 3,600 a month. If they increase the cap, you can bet your arse that the max benefit will grow too.
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If you think so, post your evidence of when they increased benefits the dozens of times they have raised the SS cap?
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

haymarket said:
So in your mind, the great offense was not the silly introduction of RACE into a thread about taxation but the fact that somebody noticed.

You claiming that there was bigotry involved exists only in your mind. It is NOT in my post.

Amazing. really amazing.
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You show your intolerance and over sensitivity to even the mention of race in any context by calling it silly, unless you're the inductor. Why is it silly if it makes a valid point? If he kept repeating it in an out of context manner then your recognizing and bringing it to attention is sincere. Otherwise it looks like you're the race baiter. By the way, I don't really believe that either by the limited amount you actually used it.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

MaggieD said:
What does this have to do with the cost of tea in China, Cat?
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That SS taxes are used for general fund spending just like income taxes Maggie. Why do you think someone that makes their income primarily from investments should pay a lesser tax rate that someone in the middle class making $50,000?

Unless the GOP can come up with a reasonable answer to that question, I am willing to bet they lose the election in November.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Catawba said:
That SS taxes are used for general fund spending just like income taxes Maggie. Why do you think someone that makes their income primarily from investments should pay a lesser tax rate that someone in the middle class making $50,000?

Unless the GOP can come up with a reasonable answer to that question, I am willing to bet they lose the election in November.
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They're going to lose the election regardless. Obama will win. But why are you blaming Republicans? Both parties have had perfect opportunities to change our tax code. And neither has done it. Surely you don't think that Democrats aren't benefitting from all of these legal loopholes?
 
Raise it up to the same rate as wages. Also garuntee I will be paid the rate I expect to get, the same as wages, and you got my vote. If I work and don't get paid the govt will help me get paid, if its the same on invetments I'm in.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

MaggieD said:
They're going to lose the election regardless. Obama will win. But why are you blaming Republicans? Both parties have had perfect opportunities to change our tax code. And neither has done it. Surely you don't think that Democrats aren't benefitting from all of these legal loopholes?
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Not so, the Democrats provided a tax credit for the working class and small businesses in 2009. The Democrats also opposed extending the payroll tax cuts for the wealthy and the GOP threatened to withhold unemployment payments. The Democrats put up a bill in 2010 to let the tax cuts expire for the rich, but not for those that made $250,000 or less, and the GOP blocked it. The Democrats put up the American Jobs Act that would have have increased taxes on the rich to pay for it and the Republicans blocked it.

Now we have the top runner in the GOP primary that as admitted he only paid 13.9% taxes on his multimillion dollar income who promised to cut taxes for the rich even further. That ain't going to fly with the working class, and judging by the boos he received in SC over his evasion of the tax questions, I don't think he is even going to get much support from the working class in is own party.
 
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Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

i have the solution to EVERYONES problems...everyone that makes over a million dollars should simply...stop. Pull all of the money out of investment accounts...move all your assets to Swiss bank accounts in non-interest bearing savings accounts. Completely and fully stop investing...in EVERYTHING. EVERYONE is happy. the poor are happy because the rich are no longer exploiting the markets and creating greater wealth for themselves. The rich are happy because they are no longer deemed the evil bad guys. No one could complain about Romney's tax holdings on his income because he wouldnt have any. No one could possibly complain about the democrats wealth beca...no...wait...no one complains about their wealth already. So...win...win! What could POSSIBLY be the downside?
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

VanceMack said:
i have the solution to EVERYONES problems...everyone that makes over a million dollars should simply...stop. Pull all of the money out of investment accounts...move all your assets to Swiss bank accounts in non-interest bearing savings accounts. Completely and fully stop investing...in EVERYTHING. EVERYONE is happy. the poor are happy because the rich are no longer exploiting the markets and creating greater wealth for themselves. The rich are happy because they are no longer deemed the evil bad guys. No one could complain about Romney's tax holdings on his income because he wouldnt have any. No one could possibly complain about the democrats wealth beca...no...wait...no one complains about their wealth already. So...win...win! What could POSSIBLY be the downside?
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Realistically, we can't even get off oil yet without disrupting the international markets beyond repair. It will take a 20 year transition period if we start RIGHT NOW. The poor, middle class and wealthy are interwoven beyond detanglement without severe repercussions for all classes. It's the small details that we're fussing over when larger decisions are needed, and soon.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

grip said:
Realistically, we can't even get off oil yet without disrupting the international markets beyond repair. It will take a 20 year transition period if we start RIGHT NOW. The poor, middle class and wealthy are interwoven beyond detanglement without severe repercussions for all classes. It's the small details that we're fussing over when larger decisions are needed, and soon.
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I dont know...seems to me 'the rich' could make everyone happy if they just completely pulled out of every market.
 
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