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Romney reveals he pays about 15% in taxes(edited)

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j-mac said:
Meh....Too tired for this crap....Drove over 600 miles today, I am turning in.....til morning. :2wave:


j-mac
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Sleep well. Get a good rest. And in the morning awake refreshed and please do find that section of the Constitution that you claim guarantees the pursuit of happiness.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

teamosil said:
So anyways, lets try it again.

True of false- Romney pays approximately half the percentage of his income in taxes that the average American does.
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asked and answered

quit lying

you have already proven you are clueless about that percentage for Romney
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

j-mac said:
Then I believe you are crossing the line between what you think is truly mine, and what the government 'allows' me to keep.
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I'm not really sure I even know what you mean... We need taxes so that we can keep our society strong. It's in everybody's interests. You aren't an anarchist, so you agree, no?

j-mac said:
No, our percentage on cap gain is the same 15% be it on a million, or a thousand.
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Again, you pay a higher percentage in taxes overall than the super rich investor. It doesn't matter that the taxes you pay more of have different names.

j-mac said:
Also not true. You have no objective way of comparing my current situation to that of what ever mythical person you think has too much. IOW, you would need to know my taxes on these things as compared to that whom you are comparing me to. Until you can lay that out then yours is a poor guess at best.
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There are thousands of studies finding that... And it's just obvious common sense. So, yeah, that argument is not remotely persuasive.

j-mac said:
There is a difference between investing, and working. Is it legal for cap gains to be taxed at 15% while my income federally falls in the say 25% range?
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Legal? Yeah of course that's legal. That's the law I am saying should be changed.

Look, ask yourself this. If we ony had one tax and it was an income tax that covered both wages and investment income, and they set the rates as follows- people in the bottom 20% pay 16%, the average person pays 27%, upper middle class pays 32%, and super rich people pay 15%, would you think that was a good plan? If not, why do you support something that works out to exactly the same thing just because they obscure what they're doing by having multiple different taxes instead of just rolling it together?
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

TurtleDude said:
asked and answered
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No, you haven't answered that. You talk instead about what kind of taxes each party pays and whatnot instead of answering.

True of false- Romney pays about half the percentage of his income in taxes as the average American does?
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

haymarket said:
And still no logical case made for the discriminatory preferential tax rates for capital gains which benefit mostly the wealthy.

Lots of pontificating. But still no case made.
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The problem is the premise. The FACT that you state they are discriminatory is merely your opinion of cap gain rates. It is this opinion that we disagree with thus we are neither wrong or right.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

another question

should the federal tax system (which OldReliabe67 demonstrated leads to the top one percent paying a total effective rate of about 30%, and other groups decreasing amounts) become even more progressive to make up for a state tax system (in states that don't have income taxes) that may be less progressive?

should my federal income taxes be lessened because I live in a state that has high income taxes and death taxes (the death tax starts at about 340K)

and finally why don't the lefties ever take into account the surcharge us in the top one percent pay-the federal estate or death tax which if incorporated into our overall tax rate would show things far more progressive than the bashers of the rich admit

(if the left has its way that means 55% of every dollar over a million)

Later
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

TurtleDude said:
asked and answered

quit lying

you have already proven you are clueless about that percentage for Romney
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Do you think no one notices your dishonesty???


Tea said, "True of false- Romney pays about half the percentage of his income in taxes as the average American does?
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

teamosil said:
No, you haven't answered that. You talk instead about what kind of taxes each party pays and whatnot instead of answering.

True of false- Romney pays about half the percentage of his income in taxes as the average American does?
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since you cannot come close to even being honest about Romney's total tax bill and the percentage of his income (figure into that the death tax and get back to me-it could be 55% of every dollar over one million) how can you demand an answer when you have no idea if it is right or wrong
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Catawba said:
Do you think no one notices your dishonesty???


Tea said, "True of false- Romney pays about half the percentage of his income in taxes as the average American does?
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wrong. half the country doesn't pay any income taxes and none of you have come close to guessing what Romney pays in total taxes as a percentage of his income and you don't even try to incorporate the death tax which has to be figured into his overall tax bill
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Dickieboy said:
The problem is the premise. The FACT that you state they are discriminatory is merely your opinion of cap gain rates. It is this opinion that we disagree with thus we are neither wrong or right.
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Whether it is wrong or right will be determined in November by the people.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

teamosil said:
So anyways, lets try it again.

True of false- Romney pays approximately half the percentage of his income in taxes that the average American does.
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This post has been about Romney's effective tax rate on his Federal income tax. Your question cannot even be answered...#1, he hasn't released his income tax form; #2, neither you nor anyone else knows how much he pays in various other taxes.

However, IF his effective tax rate on his income is indeed 15%, it is far higher than the average American. And that is what Romney was referring to...as much as you'd like to spin it otherwise.

The median household income in the United States is about $46,000. A household with 2 children (single parent) and a mortgage deduction of $9,000 a year pays an effective tax rate of 2.17%. The median income of a dual-earner household with 2 children is about $67,000. Their effective tax rate, with a mortgage deduction of $12,000 is 3.96%.

You are completely 100% incorrect.

Marginal and Effective Tax Rates
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

TurtleDude said:
wrong. half the country doesn't pay any income taxes and none of you have come close to guessing what Romney pays in total taxes as a percentage of his income and you don't even try to incorporate the death tax which has to be figured into his overall tax bill
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As you well know, income taxes make up less than half of federal revenues, and the middle class pay 90 % of the payroll taxes.

So what reason does the working class have for continuing to vote for your tax cuts???
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

MaggieD said:
However, IF his effective tax rate on his income is indeed 15%, it is far higher than the average American. And that is what Romney was referring to...as much as you'd like to spin it otherwise.
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Nope, that's not the question I'm asking. The question I am asking is:

True or false- Romney pays approximately half the percentage of his income in taxes as the average American.

All taxes, not just one kind or another, all taxes. For the purpose of the question, assume that Romney was telling the truth when he said that he indeed pays 15% effective income taxes total, not just federal.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Catawba said:
As you well know, income taxes make up less than half of federal revenues, and the middle class pay 90 % of the payroll taxes.

So what reason does the working class have for continuing to vote for your tax cuts???
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Well, 47% of Americans are thrilled. They pay no income tax at all. Status quo's workin' pretty well for them.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

haymarket said:
And still no logical case made for the discriminatory preferential tax rates for capital gains which benefit mostly the wealthy.

Lots of pontificating. But still no case made.
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Because Bill Clinton thought it was a good idea...:lamo
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

teamosil said:
Nope, that's not the question I'm asking. The question I am asking is:

True or false- Romney pays approximately half the percentage of his income in taxes as the average American.

All taxes, not just one kind or another, all taxes. For the purpose of the question, assume that Romney was telling the truth when he said that he indeed pays 15% effective income taxes total, not just federal.
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For the purpose of this question, let's pretend the earth is flat. That is not what this thread is about. That is not what he meant. You're being absolutely ridiculous.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

MaggieD said:
For the purpose of this question, let's pretend the earth is flat. That is not what this thread is about. That is not what he meant. You're being absolutely ridiculous.
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Ok, so if when his taxes are released, it turns out that he was telling the truth and he does in fact pay a total of a 15% effective total income tax rate, will you answer then?

Personally I can't imagine why he would have lied that he was paying LESS taxes than he actually is... If anything he would lie to claim he was paying MORE taxes than he really did... But, really, he'd be a fool to lie in either direction, since people will eventually find out. So I assume he was telling the truth.
 
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Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

MaggieD said:
Well, 47% of Americans are thrilled. They pay no income tax at all. Status quo's workin' pretty well for them.
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Yet what you hide, or are unaware of, is that most those 47% work full time and pay a higher percentage of their total income in taxes of one form or another, than Romney and others do that receive their income primarily from investments.
 
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Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

teamosil said:
Ok, so if when his taxes are released, it turns out that he was telling the truth and he does in fact pay a total of a 15% effective total income tax rate, will you answer then?
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I've already answered from that position. My post #1111. A 15% effective tax rate is much higher than the average American.

Good night.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Dickieboy said:
Because Bill Clinton thought it was a good idea...
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The tax rates for the rich were higher under the Republican presidents, Eisenhower, Nixon, Ford, and Reagan then they were under Clinton! :lamo
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

MaggieD said:
I've already answered from that position. My post #1111. A 15% effective tax rate is much higher than the average American.
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That's higher than the average American's effective FEDERAL INCOME tax rate. NOT their TOTAL tax rate- the percentage of their income that goes to taxes overall. That is what I am asking- does about half the percentage of Romney's income end up going to taxes as the percentage of the average American's that does?
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

teamosil said:
Nope, that's not the question I'm asking. The question I am asking is:

True or false- Romney pays approximately half the percentage of his income in taxes as the average American.

All taxes, not just one kind or another, all taxes. For the purpose of the question, assume that Romney was telling the truth when he said that he indeed pays 15% effective income taxes total, not just federal.
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Considering the table your provided from CTJ I would say Romney LIED! He is presumably in the 1% which pays 30.0% per CTJ for 'All taxes, not just one kind or another, all taxes'. If he said 15% he MUST be wrong using your logic. And by the same logic the middle class pays around 25%, again per your CTJ data, so NO he would pay 5% more...?
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

haymarket said:
While you make your statist argument that the existence of the law justifies the principle and reason behind the law, did you find the section of the Constitution which you claim guarantees the pursuit of happiness?
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we know it is in the Declaration of Independence and not the Constitution. We know the DofI is not the Constitution.

So did the ideas outlined in Declaration have any influence on the Constitution? Yes or No,
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Catawba said:
The tax rates for the rich were higher under the Republican presidents, Eisenhower, Nixon, Ford, and Reagan then they were under Clinton! :lamo
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WHOAA back there big boy, are you making this statement using 'marginal', 'effective' or the constantly spouted 'All taxes, not just one kind or another, all taxes'?
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Dickieboy said:
Considering the table your provided from CTJ I would say Romney LIED! He is presumably in the 1% which pays 30.0% per CTJ for 'All taxes, not just one kind or another, all taxes'. If he said 15% he MUST be wrong using your logic. And by the same logic the middle class pays around 25%, again per your CTJ data, so NO he would pay 5% more...?
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The 1% is a big category. Most people even in the top 1% still make most of their money by working, so they don't get to use the capital gains loophole much. Most people even in the top 1% still spend a not insignificant percentage of their income on sales taxes and property taxes and FICA. But, the 1% also includes folks for whom sales, property and FICA taxes take up a miniscule percentage of their income and who get to use the capital gains loophole for all or almost all of their income. Romney is more in the later group than the former. Keep in mind that he made approximately 100 times more than the guy that just barely squeaked in to the top 1%. So I think it is very plausible that he pays 15%. We'll see soon enough though it sounds like.
 
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