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Romney reveals he pays about 15% in taxes(edited)

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Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Dickieboy said:
Because I thought this to be so eloquent I think this is an appropriate place for its modified usage…

It is another insult to state that those who disagree with left (sic) wing goals and policies lack intellect or insight. Again, this is a disgusting and pathetic attempt to paint your ideological enemies as unintelligent as you true believers are. Why don't you deal with the actual policies being discussed instead of attacking those who disagree with you painting them as 'unsuccessful' - a charge which you have no information which to make that judgment, or lacking intellect or intelligence which is just plain silly given my educational attainment, career, and ability to show you where you are in serious error


Thank you for that...:peace
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Correctly stating that you and others are impotent to provide a rational and logical case for he discriminatory capital gains preferences is a FACT. Or can you provide a link to where you did so and prove me wrong?
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

TurtleDude said:
there we have it, 600,000 taken from a million is what the left considers "fair"

that is the attitude we are dealing with
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Who in the name of all that is holy said that?
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

teamosil said:
Quote please.
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Nope, not playing that game today...You are a relatively intelligent person, I am sure you either already know, or can figure it out by reading the thread. Please do so.


Ok. So you have no defense of a system where investors pay lower rates than people who work.
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Not true. I work, and I have investments. If I have capital gains on my small (by comparison) investments, then my rate is 15% just like the millionaire. So tell me how they pay less? if you can.

If you'd like, feel free to start another thread on the role of federal government.
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Nah, we can keep going, if you however, feel you can't follow your own argument to its logical conclusion, then I understand if you'd like to give up.

j-mac
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

TurtleDude said:
more appeals to the envy of the mob.
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Just as I thought, you nor the GOP can come up with any reasons why the working class should vote to continue the tax cuts for the rich.

Thanks for providing evidence of my claim!!!!
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

MaggieD said:
It most certainly has.
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they think repeating the same lie over and over will convince the weakminded

the fact is, only a few taxes are intended to be progressive. we can argue whether those taxes intended to be progressive are too progressive or "progressive enough"

but to claim an entire tax system that encompasses 51 or more different taxing entities (and I am not even counting cities) and dozens of different kids of taxes) is "not progressive enough" when only a few of the taxes in that entire system (as if state and federal taxing authorities coordinate their taxes) is blatantly dishonest. Its like saying the american high school sports system doesn't have enough racquet sports because only tennis is normally the only racquet sport in HS athletics. that is based on an assumption that racquet sports are better than say sports that involve contact like wrestling or use no equipment (like cross country or swimming)

to try to evaluate a system's progressivity when most of the components are not progressive nor were intended to be progressive is blatantly dishonest
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

haymarket said:
Correctly stating that you and others are impotent to provide a rational and logical case for he discriminatory capital gains preferences is a FACT. Or can you provide a link to where you did so and prove me wrong?
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The problem is the premise. The FACT that you state they are discriminatory is merely your opinion of cap gain rates. It is this opinion that we disagree with thus we are neither wrong or right.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

teamosil said:
The average American pays approximately twice the percentage of their income in taxes as Romney does. True or false?
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the average american pays far lower a percentage of federal income tax than Mitt Romney
the average american pays far less tax dollars to both state and federal governments than Mitt Romney
yet the average american uses more direct government services and costs both state and federal governments more money than Mitt Romney and yet the average american has the same voting rights as Mitt Romney

what do you think Mitt Romney pays as a percentage of his income in all taxes?
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Catawba said:
Just as I thought, you nor the GOP can come up with any reasons why the working class should vote to continue the tax cuts for the rich.

Thanks for providing evidence of my claim!!!!
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You should add "the Democrats" to your statement. Congress was so busy pushing Obamacare down our throats when they had the majority, when they could have, had they chosen to, gotten rid of those tax cuts for the rich...reformed the entire system. Where were the Democrats?

(I support Obamacare, just so you know...but they most certainly did jam it down our throats, like it or not...)
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

j-mac said:
Nope, not playing that game today...You are a relatively intelligent person, I am sure you either already know, or can figure it out by reading the thread. Please do so.
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No, I know, of course, that I've never said that profit was bad. Where I think you're getting mixed up is that maybe you're assuming that because I think investment profit should be taxes like wages that that means I hate profit or something... But that's stupid. None of the things we could tax are like horrible things. Working isn't evil, buying things isn't evil, inheritance isn't evil, and so on. But we need to tax stuff nonetheless.

j-mac said:
Not true. I work, and I have investments. If I have capital gains on my small (by comparison) investments, then my rate is 15% just like the millionaire. So tell me how they pay less? if you can.
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You pay MORE than a super rich investor, not less. There are two main reasons you pay more:

1) You have less income total so the regressive taxes like property tax and sales tax take a bigger bite percentage wise
2) Much of your income comes from working, which is taxed at much higher rates, where most or all of the super rich person's income comes from investing, which is taxed at a much lower rate
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Dickieboy said:
The problem is the premise. The FACT that you state they are discriminatory is merely your opinion of cap gain rates. It is this opinion that we disagree with thus we are neither wrong or right.
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we can objectively say the rich are discriminated against because

1) they are the only group that actually bears a HIGHer percentage of the income tax than their share of the income

2) they pay far more actual tax dollars than any other group of the same percentage of the population and

3) they get no additional governmental benefits

to claim that the 50% who pay no income taxes are discriminated against is without any objective merit. They get tons of federal benefits and pay absolutely no income taxes
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

TurtleDude said:
the average american pays far lower a percentage of federal income tax than Mitt Romney
the average american pays far less tax dollars to both state and federal governments than Mitt Romney
yet the average american uses more direct government services and costs both state and federal governments more money than Mitt Romney and yet the average american has the same voting rights as Mitt Romney
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Nope nope nope, that wasn't the question. Try again.

The question is, is it true that Mitt Romney pays approximately half the percentage of his income in taxes as the average American. Is that true or is that false?

TurtleDude said:
what do you think Mitt Romney pays as a percentage of his income in all taxes?
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Somewhere between 15% and 16%.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

haymarket said:
Are you for real? Are you really claiming that you have not read any posts from me saying that a person who makes $600K in salary pays over twice what a person making $600K in capital gains pays and that is on its face discriminatory and a blatant preference?
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Is there any difference in your mind between investment income, and wages?

That is the perfect example of a discriminatory preference and I cannot imagine any rational person would deny it. The question becomes how can you justify it?
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Is it the law?

How are you doing on that section of the Constitution you claim guarantees the pursuit of happiness?
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I'll look for it in probably the same section you think that a clause grants a right.

j-mac
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

TurtleDude said:
they think repeating the same lie over and over will convince the weakminded

the fact is, only a few taxes are intended to be progressive. we can argue whether those taxes intended to be progressive are too progressive or "progressive enough"

but to claim an entire tax system that encompasses 51 or more different taxing entities (and I am not even counting cities) and dozens of different kids of taxes) is "not progressive enough" when only a few of the taxes in that entire system (as if state and federal taxing authorities coordinate their taxes) is blatantly dishonest. Its like saying the american high school sports system doesn't have enough racquet sports because only tennis is normally the only racquet sport in HS athletics. that is based on an assumption that racquet sports are better than say sports that involve contact like wrestling or use no equipment (like cross country or swimming)

to try to evaluate a system's progressivity when most of the components are not progressive nor were intended to be progressive is blatantly dishonest
Click to expand...

And still no logical case made for the discriminatory preferential tax rates for capital gains which benefit mostly the wealthy.

Lots of pontificating. But still no case made.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

teamosil said:
Nope nope nope, that wasn't the question. Try again.

The question is, is it true that Mitt Romney pays approximately half the percentage of his income in taxes as the average American. Is that true or is that false?



Somewhere between 15% and 16%.
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You are lying again

Romney pays at least 5% of his income to state income taxes in Mass. and he pays at least 15% on his investment income and 35% on his earned income. This doesn't even take into account sales taxes and property taxes and he has homes in two of the highest property tax states in the country

your 16% estimate is so incredibly wrong the rest of your claims cannot be taken seriously

of course given your constant lie about this issue I suggest your opinions have no merit whatsoever since you deliberately tried to confuse Romney's income tax rate with other peoples' total-state and federal tax rate
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

j-mac said:
Is there any difference in your mind between investment income, and wages?



Is it the law?



I'll look for it in probably the same section you think that a clause grants a right.

j-mac
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So you are now a statist who uses the existence of the law to provide the justification for the principle behind the law? Is that your position?

I made no claims about what was in the Constitution that I did not back up. If you claim I did please present that claim of my words.

You on the other hand claimed that the Constitution guarantees the pursuit of happiness. Did you find it yet? Your gross error of fact identifies perfectly one of the fatal errors made in the conservative ideology.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

TurtleDude said:
we can objectively say the rich are discriminated against because

1) they are the only group that actually bears a HIGHer percentage of the income tax than their share of the income

2) they pay far more actual tax dollars than any other group of the same percentage of the population and

3) they get no additional governmental benefits

to claim that the 50% who pay no income taxes are discriminated against is without any objective merit. They get tons of federal benefits and pay absolutely no income taxes
Click to expand...

And none of that provides one reason for the justification of the discriminatory rate for capital gains over the same amount earned in salary.

Are you ever going to get to that?
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

MaggieD said:
You should add "the Democrats" to your statement. Congress was so busy pushing Obamacare down our throats when they had the majority, when they could have, had they chosen to, gotten rid of those tax cuts for the rich...reformed the entire system. Where were the Democrats?

(I support Obamacare, just so you know...but they most certainly did jam it down our throats, like it or not...)
Click to expand...

The Democrats were, as usual, protecting the little people from the conservatives who had threatened to cut off unemployment benefits unless they got their tax cuts continued. A majority of Democrats put up bill to extend the tax cuts just for those making under $250,000, and guess who blocked it.

The Democrats also had bill for the American Jobs Act that would have provided jobs for the working class to be paid for by eliminating some of the tax breaks for the rich, guess who opposed it?

So I ask you again, why should the working class vote to continue the tax cuts for the wealthy??? Where are the jobs that were supposed to have been created by tax cuts to the rich for the last decade?
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

TurtleDude said:
Romney pays at least 5% of his income to state income taxes in Mass. and he pays at least 15% on his investment income and 35% on his earned income. This doesn't even take into account sales taxes and property taxes and he has homes in two of the highest property tax states in the country

your 16% estimate is so incredibly wrong the rest of your claims cannot be taken seriously

of course given your constant lie about this issue I suggest your opinions have no merit whatsoever since you deliberately tried to confuse Romney's income tax rate with other peoples' total-state and federal tax rate
Click to expand...

Actually Romney says that he pays around 15% total in income taxes. That's what the thread is about actually.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

haymarket said:
And still no logical case made for the discriminatory preferential tax rates for capital gains which benefit mostly the wealthy.

Lots of pontificating. But still no case made.
Click to expand...

You just ignore all the arguments presented because you are mad that the rich aren't screwed as much as you want if they have investment income

what are the sound arguments for allowing so many people to pay less than 15% on their income?
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

teamosil said:
Actually Romney says that he pays around 15% total in income taxes. That's what the thread is about actually.
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and that is more than what at least 97% of the country pays in income taxes

so I am still waiting for a valid point
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

teamosil said:
No, I know, of course, that I've never said that profit was bad. Where I think you're getting mixed up is that maybe you're assuming that because I think investment profit should be taxes like wages that that means I hate profit or something... But that's stupid. None of the things we could tax are like horrible things. Working isn't evil, buying things isn't evil, inheritance isn't evil, and so on. But we need to tax stuff nonetheless.
Click to expand...

Then I believe you are crossing the line between what you think is truly mine, and what the government 'allows' me to keep.

You pay MORE than a super rich investor, not less. There are two main reasons you pay more:
Click to expand...

No, our percentage on cap gain is the same 15% be it on a million, or a thousand.

1) You have less income total so the regressive taxes like property tax and sales tax take a bigger bite percentage wise
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Also not true. You have no objective way of comparing my current situation to that of what ever mythical person you think has too much. IOW, you would need to know my taxes on these things as compared to that whom you are comparing me to. Until you can lay that out then yours is a poor guess at best.

2) Much of your income comes from working, which is taxed at much higher rates, where most or all of the super rich person's income comes from investing, which is taxed at a much lower rate
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There is a difference between investing, and working. Is it legal for cap gains to be taxed at 15% while my income federally falls in the say 25% range?

j-mac
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

TurtleDude said:
You just ignore all the arguments presented because you are mad that the rich aren't screwed as much as you want if they have investment income

what are the sound arguments for allowing so many people to pay less than 15% on their income?
Click to expand...

And still no logical case made for the discriminatory preferential tax rates for capital gains which benefit mostly the wealthy.

Lots of pontificating. But still no case made.

If you think you made one, just link to it and prove me wrong. But you cannot because you never did.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

TurtleDude said:
and that is more than what at least 97% of the country pays in income taxes

so I am still waiting for a valid point
Click to expand...

So anyways, lets try it again.

True of false- Romney pays approximately half the percentage of his income in taxes that the average American does.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

j-mac said:
Then I believe you are crossing the line between what you think is truly mine, and what the government 'allows' me to keep.





j-mac
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While you make your statist argument that the existence of the law justifies the principle and reason behind the law, did you find the section of the Constitution which you claim guarantees the pursuit of happiness?
 
Last edited:
Meh....Too tired for this crap....Drove over 600 miles today, I am turning in.....til morning. :2wave:


j-mac
 
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