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Romney reveals he pays about 15% in taxes(edited)

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Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Taxing long-term capital gains at a lower rate most definitely encourages investors to put their money into the U.S. economy. That's not a bad thing; that's a good thing.

No. If they invest in companies in another country, but they live here, they pay taxes here.

Dividends, which are also treated as capital gains, are taxed twice.

Mostly false. About 1/3 of profitable corporations pay no income taxes at all. Most just hide the money by reinvesting in the company. Besides, in the present case, that is definitely not true. Bain Capital is a partnership. Partnerships do not pay income taxes at all.

Dividends are a tiny percentage of capital gains anyways.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Yeah, they used to be able to use the "trickle down" angle, but obviously they can't use that anymore... So now they're just left with "shut up you suck"...

Exactly, and I wager that will be a losing platform in November when the working class go to vote.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

No. If they invest in companies in another country, but they live here, they pay taxes here.

Yes! Just because one can invest in foreign corporations (and still pay the tax here) does not prove that it doesn't promote investment in U.S. companies.

Mostly false. About 1/3 of profitable corporations pay no income taxes at all. Most just hide the money by reinvesting in the company. Besides, in the present case, that is definitely not true. Bain Capital is a partnership. Partnerships do not pay income taxes at all.

Dividends are a tiny percentage of capital gains anyways.

Dividends are not a tax deductible expense to a corporation. They pay tax on them. Just because it's a tiny percentage does not mean it shouldn't be taken into consideration. As to dividends being a tiny percentage of capital gains anyway, link? Also, you haven't addressed inflation...nor have you addressed that taxpayers end up paying taxes on dividends and then losing money on that particular stock.

I'm in favor of some change to capital gains taxes -- maybe an AMT or income stipulations. Certainly not across the board to mom-and-pop. Considering that income tax was first instituted only on earned income, it should come as no surprise to anyone that there's a difference in how it's taxed.

Partnerships don't pay Federal income tax because it's all passed through to the individuals. I don't get your point.
 
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Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Yes! Just because one can invest in foreign corporations (and still pay the tax here) does not prove that it doesn't promote investment in U.S. companies.



Dividends are not a tax deductible expense to a corporation. They pay tax on them. Just because it's a tiny percentage does not mean it shouldn't be taken into consideration. As to dividends being a tiny percentage of capital gains anyway, link? Also, you haven't addressed inflation...nor have you addressed that taxpayers end up paying taxes on dividends and then losing money on that particular stock.

I'm in favor of some change to capital gains taxes -- maybe an AMT or income stipulations. Certainly not across the board to mom-and-pop. Considering that income tax was first instituted only on earned income, it should come as no surprise to anyone that there's a difference in how it's taxed.

As far as I know there is no evidence that higher capital gains rates result in less investment. But if you think there is, one could argue that it's not such a great idea for the government to use a tax preference to encourage more risk taking.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

As far as I know there is no evidence that higher capital gains rates result in less investment. But if you think there is, one could argue that it's not such a great idea for the government to use a tax preference to encourage more risk taking.

One could argue about many tax preferential treatments being social engineering -- which is exactly what they are.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

One could argue about many tax preferential treatments being social engineering -- which is exactly what they are.

I agree, and it's a big part of the reason that I think all income should be treated the same.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Yes! Just because one can invest in foreign corporations (and still pay the tax here) does not prove that it doesn't promote investment in U.S. companies.

Not sure what your argument is here. Can you lay it out?

Dividends are not a tax deductible expense to a corporation. They pay tax on them.

Correct.

Just because it's a tiny percentage does not mean it shouldn't be taken into consideration.

Mostly false. Lets say that the double taxation on dividends issue in effect increases the capital gains tax rate to say 15.1% or so. Whoptie do.

nor have you addressed that taxpayers end up paying taxes on dividends and then losing money on that particular stock.

If you lose money overall, you owe no taxes. Losses offset profits.

Partnerships don't pay Federal income tax because it's all passed through to the individuals. I don't get your point.

That the thread you are on shows one of the reasons that the double taxation argument doesn't really have much impact. In the case of Romney's money, there was nobody else paying taxes. Bain Capital didn't pay any taxes on the money. They just gave it to Romney and he paid 15% and that was that.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

"Supply-side economics is better known to some as "Reaganomics", or the "trickle-down" policy espoused by former U.S. president Ronald Reagan. He popularized the controversial idea that greater tax cuts for investors and entrepreneurs provide incentives to save and invest and produce economic benefits that trickle down into the overall economy."

Another opinion piece…thanks for that…why would I be more compelled to believe his opinions over yours (which I respect)? Do you have evidence that the antithesis, Keynesian economics, have WORKED beyond the theoretical?

Section 199 is just another attempt of the failed Reaganomics, giving tax cuts to rich companies without any requirements for job creation. Been there, done that, for the last 30 years. No thanks! Where are the jobs the last 10 years of tax cuts to the rich were supposed to create???

Since it was enacted in 2005, quite distant from the ‘Reagan era’, I somehow miss the connection. Can you support the ‘rich company’ claim with evidence? Technically the employment levels rose until the economic downturn (see BLS tables) which was not based on section 199 tax reductions.


Maybe you missed that was the opinion of just one of the people surveyed. The Great majority agree with Obama's plan to tax the rich more.

No, I caught that which was the point. Why is one’s opinion any more valuable than any others including yours (which again I respect)?

A majority of Americans agree with the majority of Global investors:
23 Polls Say People Support Higher Taxes to Reduce the Deficit[/URL]

Did your read the question of the poll? “Can/Should the Budget Deficit Be Reduced with Spending Cuts Alone or Should There Be Some Increase in Taxes?” Note that it DOES NOT limit action to taxes but includes spending cuts…which I also agree with. Quite misleading title wouldn’t you agree?
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Another opinion piece…thanks for that…why would I be more compelled to believe his opinions over yours (which I respect)? Do you have evidence that the antithesis, Keynesian economics, have WORKED beyond the theoretical?

Its what got us out of the Great Depression and prevented the Great Recession from becoming another Great Depression. And any Americans who were adults through the last 30 years understands the supply side economics (trickle down theory) has been a failure.

If you think the GOP can successfully repackage it, I think you are mistaken, because they have no answer for the question, "where are the jobs that were supposed to be created by last 10 years of tax cuts to the rich???

What reason does the working class have to continue the tax cuts for the rich??


Since it was enacted in 2005, quite distant from the ‘Reagan era’, I somehow miss the connection. Can you support the ‘rich company’ claim with evidence? Technically the employment levels rose until the economic downturn (see BLS tables) which was not based on section 199 tax reductions.

See the definition of Reaganomics:

"An informal term for supply-side economics, which is a macroeconomic theory stating that a government can best promote growth by providing incentives for persons to produce goods and services. The primary way a supply-side oriented government does this is by maintaining low tax rates so that investors and entrepreneurs may use their money toward production. Maintaining low tax rates on the wealthy is one of the most important and controversial aspects of supply-side economics; the theory states that well off persons have the capital available to produce goods and services and thereby create jobs and grow the economy. Critics contend that this does not happen in reality, and that the wealthy are more likely to keep, rather than invest, their money. Reaganomics acquired the name because it was crucial to the economic policies of the administration of U.S. President Ronald Reagan. See also: Keynesian economics, Monetarism, Trickle-down economics."

Reaganomics financial definition of Reaganomics. Reaganomics finance term by the Free Online Dictionary.



No, I caught that which was the point. Why is one’s opinion any more valuable than any others including yours (which again I respect)?

For the same reason I would listen to five medical experts that concurred with treatment over one that thought differently.



Did your read the question of the poll? “Can/Should the Budget Deficit Be Reduced with Spending Cuts Alone or Should There Be Some Increase in Taxes?” Note that it DOES NOT limit action to taxes but includes spending cuts…which I also agree with. Quite misleading title wouldn’t you agree?

That's what the Democrats have been trying to get the GOP to do, to come together like both parties did in the 90s to both cut spending and increase revenues.

Today, we have the choice between a party who want to both decrease spending and eliminate the tax breaks for the rich vs a party that only wants cut spending on social programs so they can continue the tax breaks for the rich.

That's how I see it, and I'm willing to bet that is how most of the working class will see it in November when they go to the polls.
 
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Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

That's how I see it, and I'm willing to bet that is how most of the working class will see it in November when they go to the polls.


Only if American's are actually dumb enough not to see straight through the utterly propagandist rhetoric of Debbie Wasserman Schultz, and the DNC.

Fox News Sunday with Chris Wallace - Fox News

Boehner makes relevant points about how the House has passed numerous bills only to have Harry Reid scrap them, including budgets.

This meme of repubs being the problem here is just dishonest.


j-mac
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Only if American's are actually dumb enough not to see straight through the utterly propagandist rhetoric of Debbie Wasserman Schultz, and the DNC.

What reason does the working class have to continue the tax cuts for the rich in November??
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

I agree, and it's a big part of the reason that I think all income should be treated the same.

great, that means short term capital gains should be treated the same as long term ones (better think that through-not a really smart idea)

It also means that dividend income would not have two slices taken by the government

and all income would be taxed at the same rate for everyone


again, this claim of yours is another attempt of "lets find a reason to take more money from the wealthy"
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Here's a pretty revealing stat.:

cpr30n502.jpg



I expect my investments to double every 7 years

why does that bother you so much?
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Does anybody have any real arguments in favor of the ultra low tax rates for rich investors?

Ultra low rates? when the 15% actual rate the uber wealthy pay is still higher than at least 97% of the country?

why are not you pissing and moaning about the ZERO RATE 50% of the country pays
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

the amount paid is not suppose to be equal.

A five point across the board raise certainly is egalitarian.

Please do not intentionally confuse two different things.

Inheriting money is somebody getting money they did not previously have. Income tax should indeed be paid upon it because they have new income. Its pretty straight forward and simple. My position is based on straight forward principle and does not waver: the government should not discriminate or give preferential treatment to the source of the income.

My position has been consistent on that from the very start.
it would only be egalitarian if the current position is too

its not, the rich are overtaxed, the people who drive government spending are vastly undertaxed
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Ultra low rates? when the 15% actual rate the uber wealthy pay is still higher than at least 97% of the country?

why are not you pissing and moaning about the ZERO RATE 50% of the country pays

TD... Did you really think that after I busted you 100 times previously for using that ridiculously obvious distortion that I would somehow not notice you trying it again?

As you know very, very, well at this point, everybody pays taxes. The bottom 20% pays 16%, the average American pays 27%. Quit pretending that you don't know that.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

TD... Did you really think that after I busted you 100 times previously for using that ridiculously obvious distortion that I would somehow not notice you trying it again?

As you know very, very, well at this point, everybody pays taxes. The bottom 20% pays 16%, the average American pays 27%. Quit pretending that you don't know that.

the only provable lie on this thread was your claim that Romney's comment included all his taxes

your 27% is all taxes and I have YET TO SEE ANY PROOF OF THAT so quit your lying

The bottom 20% include all those who are paying state taxes with HANDOUTS
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Taxing long-term capital gains at a lower rate most definitely encourages investors to put their money into the U.S. economy. That's not a bad thing; that's a good thing. Dividends, which are also treated as capital gains, are taxed twice. Once, to the company who's paying them; and again by the investor who receives them. That's rather unprecedented, really. Next, while the value of my stock goes down, I'm still required to pay capital gains tax rates on dividends I receive...so I can actually lose money on a stock, and still pay taxes to Uncle Sam. Also, in periods of inflation, the capital gain that has to be recognized isn't adjusted to inflation. Best example would be a second home. Much of the appreciation in real estate is due to the rate of inflation.

Baloney Maggie. That is utter poppycock. You are way too smart to fall for that double taxation BS and think it means anything.

Money is taxed hundreds of times. I get 1000$ in salary and pay tax on it. I pay it to the store and they pay tax on it. They pay it to a worker in wages and they pay tax on it. She pays it to her landlord who pays tax on it. The landlord pays it to a handyman to do repairs on his units and pays tax on it. And on and on and on and on and on. every time the money changes hands with a new owner, there is potential tax liability.

But the rich and their defenders pretend that capital gains are some special thing that defies the rule of money ownership.

Gimme me the worlds smallest violin.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

your 27% is all taxes and I have YET TO SEE ANY PROOF OF THAT so quit your lying

OMG. TD. How many times have I posted the link to you just in the past few days? What is the matter with you? It's like you're stuck in some sort of bizarre loop. It's like that movie Memento. Did you see that? Maybe you need to start tatooing these things on your body like he did or something?
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

it would only be egalitarian if the current position is too

its not, the rich are overtaxed, the people who drive government spending are vastly undertaxed

What reason does the working class have to continue the tax cuts for the rich in November??
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

great, that means short term capital gains should be treated the same as long term ones (better think that through-not a really smart idea)

It also means that dividend income would not have two slices taken by the government

and all income would be taxed at the same rate for everyone


again, this claim of yours is another attempt of "lets find a reason to take more money from the wealthy"

Taxing all money coming into a persons pocket or account according to the same tax schedule regardless of the source is NOT a call for a flat tax no matter how desperate the defenders of tax inequality want to jump at that false hope.

All money - regardless of the source - can indeed be taxed as income. At the same time, our progressive tax structure has tax brackets to then tax that income as to the proper place on the tax schedule.

As DeNiro said in THE DEERHUNTER.... "this is this, this isn't something else, this is this."

So lets please exercise a bit of intellectual integrtity please.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

What reason does the working class have to continue the tax cuts for the rich in November??

There are several.

1. Consideration of money in small business (which in case you forgot employ's the lion share of people in this country) are treated as "rich" in democrat dishonest claims.

2. That the term "rich" is overly vague and can be moved ever downward as liberal progressives start running out of upper income levels to fund their spending. Think AMT.

3. I always try to keep in mind the old adage...."They came for my neighbors things and I said nothing....."

Get the picture....?


j-mac
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

What reason does the working class have to continue the tax cuts for the rich in November??

You will not get a good answer that makes any sense for the nation as a whole.

Its a matter of pure selfish greed. Its like Gollum with the One Ring.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

You will not get a good answer that makes any sense for the nation as a whole.

Its a matter of pure selfish greed. Its like Gollum with the One Ring.


Wow, you sure have a lot of balls dude...Speaking for everyone else as though you could.


j-mac
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

There are several.

1. Consideration of money in small business (which in case you forgot employ's the lion share of people in this country) are treated as "rich" in democrat dishonest claims.

2. That the term "rich" is overly vague and can be moved ever downward as liberal progressives start running out of upper income levels to fund their spending. Think AMT.

3. I always try to keep in mind the old adage...."They came for my neighbors things and I said nothing....."

Get the picture....?


j-mac

There is no picture to get. None of those even begin to approach a logical rational reason why the average working person should support a discriminatory and preferential tax rate on capital gains which primarily benefit the wealthy that is less than half of a worker making the same amount.
 
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