Romney reveals he pays about 15% in taxes(edited)

j-mac · Jan 20, 2012

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

haymarket said:
I see nothing in that post which shows any factual evidence which disproves my two points
1- the GOP has turned to the right over the past two decades
2- the Democrats have turned more to the center over the past decade

You showing that some progressives on college campuses may be leftish does not reflect on the Democrats in power.

The fact is that the Democrats have caved in on taxing the rich.
They have caved in on support for foreign wars which are unnecessary.
They have caved in on the defense budget.
They have caved in on things like the Patriot Act.
They have caved in on gun control.
They have caved in on union rights and the card check system despite having big majorities in both houses.

In each and every case they moved from a progressive position to caving in to the right.

I see you were unable to clarify what that meaningless nanny state nonsense means. Join the crowd.

Well, if you truly think that liberals today are positioned in the center, then I don't know what I could possibly do to get through. Other than to say we are not going to agree.

j-mac

MaggieD · Jan 20, 2012

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

teamosil said:
No, you also need to add in sales taxes, unemployment, disability, FICA, property taxes, vehicle registration taxes, etc. You're just looking only at federal income taxes. This should give you a rough idea of what you pay total:

If you made $12,500 in 2010, you paid: 16.2% total
$25,300: 20.7%
$40,700: 25.1%
$66,300: 28.5%
$100,000: 30%

http://www.ctj.org/pdf/taxday2011.pdf

See, Romney doesn't need to calculate any of those other taxes in because at his tier the things like sales, property, FICA, etc, amount to effectively 0% of his income, but at lower incomes they can take quite a big bite out of your paycheck.

I'm not going to argue with you on this matter any further. Effective Tax Rate as expressed by Romney was referring to his Effective Tax Rate on his Federal income taxes. Newt's is 32%, by the way. If I had to guess, actually, I'd guess that Romney was underestimating his Effective Tax Rate when he spouted "about 15%." But we'll soon now. I hope I can count on you to dredge this thread up when the time comes so one of us can celebrate.

teamosil · Jan 20, 2012

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

MaggieD said:
Effective Tax Rate as expressed by Romney was referring to his Effective Tax Rate on his Federal income taxes.

You're just making that part about it being federal up...

MaggieD said:
Newt's is 32%, by the way.

Yep. Newt got paid wages, so he didn't get in on the mega millionaire investor mega tax break.

Catawba · Jan 20, 2012

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

j-mac said:
Liberal site and leaning aside, the questions highlighted in these polls do not support your assertion...They are wide ranging enough to encompass hell, even me. But because I would even say that at some point taxation would have to rise in conjunction with entitlement reforms to get ourselves back on track, is in no way the extreme that you are advocating.

j-mac

Tax rates as they were in the 90's, when we created 22 million jobs and was the only time in the last 30 years we have significantly cut the deficit, are what you call extreme???

TurtleDude · Jan 20, 2012

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

teamosil said:
You're just making that part about it being federal up...

Yep. Newt got paid wages, so he didn't get in on the mega millionaire investor mega tax break.

why don't you tell us why you are so interested in this subject. All I see is oozing envy in your posts and an attempt to smear Romney for being successful

TurtleDude · Jan 20, 2012

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Catawba said:
Tax rates as they were in the 90's, when we created 22 million jobs and was the only time in the last 30 years we have significantly cut the deficit, are what you call extreme???

If you think those rates are great you should be the first to pay them

Catawba · Jan 20, 2012

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

jamesrage said:
Other than the warlords and government officials are there actually any rich people in that country? I would think being a regular person in that country would be like leaving a Porsche in a poor neighborhood with no alarm or anti-theft devices.

Good observation, one of the many benefits provided through US taxes is security of your riches.

Catawba · Jan 20, 2012

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

TurtleDude said:
that stupid somalia reference was moronic when it was first unveiled and only rots even more. THe welfare socialists are like ticks who tell the dog to leave if it doesn't like being bitten. FIrst of all that is a stupid suggestion, its people like me who built this country, not the people standing around with their hands out demanding others pay for their existence. Secondly, if we did leave people like you would starve

LOL!!! Having someone sucking all the profit off the top, no longer there will be no hardship, so don't let the increased capital gains rate hit you in the ass on your way out!

TurtleDude · Jan 20, 2012

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Catawba said:
LOL!!! Having someone sucking all the profit off the top, no longer there will be no hardship, so don't let the increased capital gains rate hit you in the ass on your way out!

I love the envy that permeates your posts. what caused you to develop this hatred of people who have achieved more than you have?

teamosil · Jan 20, 2012

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

TurtleDude said:
why don't you tell us why you are so interested in this subject. All I see is oozing envy in your posts and an attempt to smear Romney for being successful

I think I've been through the reasons for you an awful lot of times TD. Maybe bookmark this list so I don't need to keep explaining it to you?

1) We have a $1.4 T deficit. We can't afford to give uberrich people millions of dollars in tax breaks.
2) Wealth has diminishing marginal utility. A regressive system, like we have for the super rich, is extremely utility inefficient.
3) Economically we presently need consumer spending more than we need investment, so it makes no sense to have our tax system be ludicrously wrenched to max out investment at the expense of consumer spending.
4) Basic human decency tells you that taking more from those who need it the most than you do from those who don't need it is wrong.
5) Uberrich people benefit more from society, so it is reasonable that they be expected to chip in more to keep that society strong.

Catawba · Jan 20, 2012

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

TurtleDude said:
If you think those rates are great you should be the first to pay them

Of course, that together with spending cuts are the only way to reduce our deficit.

j-mac · Jan 20, 2012

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Catawba said:
Tax rates as they were in the 90's, when we created 22 million jobs and was the only time in the last 30 years we have significantly cut the deficit, are what you call extreme???

In and by itself, 35% to 30.5% shouldn't be that big a deal, I'll concede that. If that is where liberals stopped. But they don't end there, that is just the toe in the door.

j-mac

Catawba · Jan 20, 2012

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

TurtleDude said:
I love the envy that permeates your posts. what caused you to develop this hatred of people who have achieved more than you have?

Greed makes you see envy by those that recognize that a consumer economy cannot prosper when the majority of money goes to the top.

TurtleDude · Jan 20, 2012

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

teamosil said:
I think I've been through the reasons for you an awful lot of times TD. Maybe bookmark this list so I don't need to keep explaining it to you?

1) We have a $1.4 T deficit. We can't afford to give uberrich people millions of dollars in tax breaks.
2) Wealth has diminishing marginal utility. A regressive system, like we have for the super rich, is extremely utility inefficient.
3) Economically we presently need consumer spending more than we need investment, so it makes no sense to have our tax system be ludicrously wrenched to max out investment at the expense of consumer spending.
4) Basic human decency tells you that taking more from those who need it the most than you do from those who don't need it is wrong.
5) Uberrich people benefit more from society, so it is reasonable that they be expected to chip in more to keep that society strong.

1) the rich pay too much of the tax burden. taxing the rich more will not do anything to pay down the deficit given the dems plans to spend even more. rather tax hikes on the rich will continue the philosophy that is fed to most of the voters that it is the duty of the rich, and the rich alone, to sacrifice and pay more to end the deficit

2) until the people who drive the politicians' spending (ie the middle and lower classes) feel pain every time the government spends recklessly, the deficit will never come under control. while increasing taxes cannot make up the deficit, increasing taxes on those who demand more government can cause them to abandon their desires for more and more and more spending

3) basic human decency says its wrong for those who cannot pay for what they want to demand or force others to pay more and more and more for what they want

4) I reject your claim that "uber rich" people benefit more-that is a lie that the class warfare types have made up

5) why do you and your ilk talk about the uber rich when you want everyone making more than a few hundred K a year to pay more and more taxes?

TurtleDude · Jan 20, 2012

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Catawba said:
Greed makes you see envy by those that recognize that a consumer economy cannot prosper when the majority of money goes to the top.

Or when too much of the money goes to the government. And envy does motivate most of these rants about the rich

Catawba · Jan 20, 2012

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

j-mac said:
In and by itself, 35% to 30.5% shouldn't be that big a deal, I'll concede that. If that is where liberals stopped. But they don't end there, that is just the toe in the door.

j-mac

Don't forget the Estate, Capital gains and dividends tax rates that need to be returned to 1990 levels, as well as discontinuing the tax breaks for outsourcing.

And you are right, it would be no big deal, as it was not a hardship in the 1990s as evidenced by our record job creation and record deficit reduction.

teamosil · Jan 20, 2012

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

TurtleDude said:
taxing the rich more will not do anything to pay down the deficit given the dems plans to spend even more.

Obviously that's just silly talk. Deficit = spending - revenues. Increase revenues, you decrease deficit. The notion that spending tracks to revenues is a particularly ridiculous thing to be claiming when we have a $1.4 trillion deficit. Obviously they don't.

TurtleDude said:
2) until the people who drive the politicians' spending (ie the middle and lower classes) feel pain every time the government spends recklessly, the deficit will never come under control. while increasing taxes cannot make up the deficit, increasing taxes on those who demand more government can cause them to abandon their desires for more and more and more spending

Non-responsive. See if you can come up with a position on the dimishing marginal utility of wealth.

TurtleDude said:
3) basic human decency says its wrong for those who cannot pay for what they want to demand or force others to pay more and more and more for what they want

lol. In your world basic human decency is a rich guy taking a big **** on poor kids... Interesting. lol.

TurtleDude said:
4) I reject your claim that "uber rich" people benefit more-that is a lie that the class warfare types have made up

Yes, you frequently repeat that conclusion, but so far have been entirely unable to come up with any actual arguments to support it. So, at present, you've lost that one by forfeit.

TurtleDude said:
5) why do you and your ilk talk about the uber rich when you want everyone making more than a few hundred K a year to pay more and more taxes?

I don't. I want investors to be taxed at the same rates as people with jobs are taxed at.

liblady · Jan 20, 2012

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

TurtleDude said:
Or when too much of the money goes to the government. And envy does motivate most of these rants about the rich

Hate to break it to you, but not everyone wants your life. You don't know what motivates everyone.

AdamT · Jan 20, 2012

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

1) the rich pay so much because they're so rich. Here's an idea: if think your tax bill is too high because you have too much money, give your money away.

2) poor people aren't driving deficits higher;

3) I don't see many poor people demanding anything. But I do see a bunch of rich people whining, notwithstanding the fact that they are getting richer every year as the poor get poorer. It's sooo tacky;

4) of course rich people benefit more. The more you have the more you have to lose. I don't see a lot of food bank lobbyists in Washington;

5) my ilk doesn't want everyone making more than a few hundred K a year to pay more and more taxes. I would like to see the current top rate extend to around $350k, and then add two or three brackets on top of that -- while also making sure that everyone above the poverty line at least pays something.

Catawba · Jan 20, 2012

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

TurtleDude said:
Or when too much of the money goes to the government.

I propose cutting government spending along with eliminating the tax breaks for the rich, like we did in the 90's - the only time in the last 30 years we significantly reduced our deficit.

TurtleDude · Jan 20, 2012

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

liblady said:
Hate to break it to you, but not everyone wants your life. You don't know what motivates everyone.

envy and getting Obama reelected covers about 98.5% of the tax the rich more crowd

j-mac · Jan 20, 2012

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Catawba said:
Don't forget the Estate, Capital gains and dividends tax rates that need to be returned to 1990 levels, as well as discontinuing the tax breaks for outsourcing.

And you are right, it would be no big deal, as it was not a hardship in the 1990s as evidenced by our record job creation and record deficit reduction.

I assume you are talking about returning these rates across the board right? But let's not make the inane argument that the 90s with all of its bubbles is anything close to where we are now in terms of economy. But, ALL rates would rise...the bottom would go from 10% to 15%...that's a 50% increase. How could you be so cruel....?

j-mac

AdamT · Jan 20, 2012

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

TurtleDude said:
envy and getting Obama reelected covers about 98.5% of the tax the rich more crowd

I'm sick of your low-tax envy. Envy of the 99%'s low tax rates is the ONLY thing that motivates Republicans.

TurtleDude · Jan 20, 2012

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Catawba said:
I propose cutting government spending along with eliminating the tax breaks for the rich, like we did in the 90's - the only time in the last 30 years we significantly reduced our deficit.

Let me guess-you don't believe in doing away all the tax breaks for everyone else.

right now the top 5% pay more of the income tax than the rest of the country. you want to increase that gap

and you all never can figure out that even if you taxed the rich 100% at any income over 300K that won't get rid of the deficit. and the government has never made serious spending cuts after tax hikes. when RWR and GHWB increased taxes the dems refused to cut spending

sorry, I don't trust the federal government to spend less, especially when one party has to keep spending to buy votes

TurtleDude · Jan 20, 2012

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

AdamT said:
I'm sick of your low-tax envy. Envy of the 99%'s low tax rates is the ONLY thing that motivates Republicans.

THat is a most moronic comment. when we propose everyone paying the same flat rate, people like you have a hissy fit. -even though it would be progressive in that the rich would pay far more

Romney reveals he pays about 15% in taxes(edited)

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