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Romney reveals he pays about 15% in taxes(edited)

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Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Of course. The double taxation argument is silly. It's not like there's a block of money out that there that has a boolean taxed/not-taxed switch. If you earn money in your job, that money is taxed. If you take your after tax income and use it to start another business, it doesn't mean that your business doesn't then have to pay taxes just because you paid taxes on the start up capital.


No, that's true...But we should want to encourage investment should we not?


j-mac
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

WRONG.

He is NOT being taxed on the principal amount which was invested upon which he already paid tax. He is only taxed on the gains from the investment. That is a completely different amount of money over and above what he previously had and was taxed upon.

Why do I think the rates are discriminatory? I think a great deal of it has to do with the Golden Rule.


the real golden rule when it comes to economics is this

If you have the gold you make the rules
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Of course. The double taxation argument is silly. It's not like there's a block of money out that there that has a boolean taxed/not-taxed switch. If you earn money in your job, that money is taxed. If you take your after tax income and use it to start another business, it doesn't mean that your business doesn't then have to pay taxes just because you paid taxes on the start up capital.

I actually agree-if you earn money, pay taxes on it, invest it-it is not double taxation to pay taxes on the income you derive from either dividends or capital gains. what is double taxation is a death tax or taxes on dividends if the corporate profit was first taxed
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Of the 1%, by the 1%, for the 1%

"Americans have been watching protests against oppressive regimes that concentrate massive wealth in the hands of an elite few. Yet in our own democracy, 1 percent of the people take nearly a quarter of the nation’s income—an inequality even the wealthy will come to regret."

"It’s no use pretending that what has obviously happened has not in fact happened. The upper 1 percent of Americans are now taking in nearly a quarter of the nation’s income every year. In terms of wealth rather than income, the top 1 percent control 40 percent. Their lot in life has improved considerably. Twenty-five years ago, the corresponding figures were 12 percent and 33 percent. One response might be to celebrate the ingenuity and drive that brought good fortune to these people, and to contend that a rising tide lifts all boats. That response would be misguided. While the top 1 percent have seen their incomes rise 18 percent over the past decade, those in the middle have actually seen their incomes fall. For men with only high-school degrees, the decline has been precipitous—12 percent in the last quarter-century alone. All the growth in recent decades—and more—has gone to those at the top. In terms of income equality, America lags behind any country in the old, ossified Europe that President George W. Bush used to deride. Among our closest counterparts are Russia with its oligarchs and Iran. While many of the old centers of inequality in Latin America, such as Brazil, have been striving in recent years, rather successfully, to improve the plight of the poor and reduce gaps in income, America has allowed inequality to grow."

Of the 1%, by the 1%, for the 1% | Society | Vanity Fair

maybe that is because those in the middle class who have seen their wealth rise are no longer counted as members of the middle class
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

maybe that is because those in the middle class who have seen their wealth rise are no longer counted as members of the middle class

How many? One out of thousand? Can you quantify your supposition?
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Media Myth Debunked: 97 Percent of Americans Pay Less Tax Than Romney's 15 Percent | NewsBusters.org


According to last year's report from the Internal Revenue Service, as a function of Adjusted Gross Income, 97 percent of 2009 filers paid less than 15 percent:

Surprisingly, the Newsbusters guy doesn't include payroll taxes, which make up a higher percentage of federal taxes than FIT for many Americans.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Surprisingly, the Newsbusters guy doesn't include payroll taxes, which make up a higher percentage of federal taxes than FIT for many Americans.

maybe because that FICA stuff was never intended to be progressive in the same way the income tax was intended and was not originally intended to be a general revenue tax. Now I know that congress has violated the intent of the FICA but trying to use non-progressive taxes to claim that American taxes aren't progressive enough is basically dishonest
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

maybe because that FICA stuff was never intended to be progressive in the same way the income tax was intended and was not originally intended to be a general revenue tax. Now I know that congress has violated the intent of the FICA but trying to use non-progressive taxes to claim that American taxes aren't progressive enough is basically dishonest

The only dishonest thing is ignoring a huge chunk of the federal taxes most Americans pay to try to make Romney's tax rate look less ridiculous.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Surprisingly, the Newsbusters guy doesn't include payroll taxes, which make up a higher percentage of federal taxes than FIT for many Americans.

Its the turtledudes shell game he likes to play, he thinks that after 30 years now people haven't caught on to the scam of trickle down economics.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

the real golden rule when it comes to economics is this

If you have the gold you make the rules

Very good Turtle. That was exactly my point. Bravo.:cool:
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

I actually agree-if you earn money, pay taxes on it, invest it-it is not double taxation to pay taxes on the income you derive from either dividends or capital gains. what is double taxation is a death tax or taxes on dividends if the corporate profit was first taxed

How in the world could anyone claim that money given to a person taxed with an estate tax is double taxation when the person getting them money never paid a penny of tax on it in the first place?

That simply defies all logic and reality.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

How in the world could anyone claim that money given to a person taxed with an estate tax is double taxation when the person getting them money never paid a penny of tax on it in the first place?

That simply defies all logic and reality.
By your reasoning children's allowances should also be taxed.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

By your reasoning children's allowances should also be taxed.

Now there is a jump from A to Z skipping all the other 24 letters in between.

For a person to fall victim to double taxation, simple logic dictates that they must first pay tax on it at one time. People who inherit do not fall under that category since the one giving the inheritance paid the original taxes.
 
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Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

The only dishonest thing is ignoring a huge chunk of the federal taxes most Americans pay to try to make Romney's tax rate look less ridiculous.

translation-in comparing apples you will include a complete supermarket's fresh fruit section in order to justifying whining about the rich
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

How in the world could anyone claim that money given to a person taxed with an estate tax is double taxation when the person getting them money never paid a penny of tax on it in the first place?

That simply defies all logic and reality.

I guess you still haven't figured out that the person taxed under the death tax is not the heir
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Now there is a jump from A to Z skipping all the other 24 letters in between.

For a person to fall victim to double taxation, simple logic dictates that they must first pay tax on it at one time. People who inherit do not fall under that category since the one giving the inheritance paid the original taxes.
So you agree then that the money has already been taxed, right?
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Its the turtledudes shell game he likes to play, he thinks that after 30 years now people haven't caught on to the scam of trickle down economics.

envy has been with us for decades and there are still failures who blame the rich for their lack of financial success. If you want money, do something valuable that would cause others to give you some. People like me don't exist just to pour money down upon you no matter how much you complain
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

envy has been with us for decades and there are still failures who blame the rich for their lack of financial success. If you want money, do something valuable that would cause others to give you some. People like me don't exist just to pour money down upon you no matter how much you complain

Playing the ENVY card has become standard operating procedure for the defenders of the wealthy who are unable to rationally discuss a national tax policy. It is a self given compliment and is just like the snotty high school girl who whines "don't hate me because I'm beautiful." Gimme a break already.

The essence of envy is that you want what someone else has for yourself. Nobody here discussing a more rational tax policy for the nation has that in mind. The knee-jerk reflex of the use of the ENVY card has become really lame and the most hollow of arguments.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

So you agree then that the money has already been taxed, right?

NEWS BULLETIN: Money is taxed time after time after time after time after time after time when it moves from one owner to a new owner to a new owner to a new owner to a new owner and on down the line.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Playing the ENVY card has become standard operating procedure for the defenders of the wealthy who are unable to rationally discuss a national tax policy. It is a self given compliment and is just like the snotty high school girl who whines "don't hate me because I'm beautiful." Gimme a break already.

The essence of envy is that you want what someone else has for yourself. Nobody here discussing a more rational tax policy for the nation has that in mind. The knee-jerk reflex of the use of the ENVY card has become really lame and the most hollow of arguments.

It is the most accurate description to depict the motivations of those who spend hours complaining about the rich.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

NEWS BULLETIN: Money is taxed time after time after time after time after time after time when it moves from one owner to a new owner to a new owner to a new owner to a new owner and on down the line.

that is proper when there are transactions involving trades of services or goods for money. My employer pays me 100 dollars and I am taxed 35 dollars on that. I then take that remaining 65 dollars and buy a football I pay sales tax on that because there has been an exchange of goods for money-ie a taxable transaction where value is transfered for value. Same if I hire you to cut my lawn (you pay income taxes on my payment) because you have received pay for the commodity known as labor. Death is not a transaction where labor has been exchanged for money or money exchanged for goods or services. That is the difference and that is why your attempts to claim the death tax or the double taxation on dividends are proper is without logical merit
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

It is the most accurate description to depict the motivations of those who spend hours complaining about the rich.
I agree. Of course you'll never get haymarket to admit to envy. As obvious as it is, it would take from the high moral pedestal he imagines he's on.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

It is the most accurate description to depict the motivations of those who spend hours complaining about the rich.

It is first a knee jerk right wing reflex employed to defend the wealthy and avoid a real discussion of a rational tax policy for a nation of 311 million people.

Secondly, it is a pat on your own back and a self given compliment intended for self engrandizement. It allows the player of the ENVY CARD to wallow in the self imposed delusion that the rest of the world just really wants to be like them and take their so called wealth for their own.

It is the worst sort of intellectual fraud wearing the Halloween costume of elitist snobbery.

And if its all you got, your gun is empty.
 
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Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Playing the ENVY card has become standard operating procedure for the defenders of the wealthy who are unable to rationally discuss a national tax policy. It is a self given compliment and is just like the snotty high school girl who whines "don't hate me because I'm beautiful." Gimme a break already.

The essence of envy is that you want what someone else has for yourself. Nobody here discussing a more rational tax policy for the nation has that in mind. The knee-jerk reflex of the use of the ENVY card has become really lame and the most hollow of arguments.

ENVY is the most obvious response from those who have less than others, and it was ever so.

How much did you contribute to the federal government in taxes versus how much Romney contributed?

Did you contribute as much as 15% on your tax returns?
 
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