• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Romney reveals he pays about 15% in taxes(edited)

Status
Not open for further replies.
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Not bad. I like the fact it promotes investment. People will still freak out that a hedge fund guy who lives on dividends alone will be making far more.

Dividends are already taxable income. But, they are only taxed at 15% to 0%.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

I'm confused. Does Romney's class enable him to pay a lower rate than people in lower classes?

No, the tax code does.

Understand?
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Whether or not Berkshire owes back taxes is under dispute, and has nothing at all to do with Buffet's opinion that he and other billionaires are personally undertaxed.

Of course... do as I say, not as I do. Right ?
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Of course... do as I say, not as I do. Right ?

Show me where Buffett has said that corporations should not have the right to challenge IRS assessments and I'll happily concede your point.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Show me where Buffett has said that corporations should not have the right to challenge IRS assessments and I'll happily concede your point.

For ten years ????
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Er, where do you think the 1% gets their money? They skim percentages off the work and purchases and whatnot of the 99%. Without the 99%, the 1% has no income whatsoever, their companies all shut down immediately, etc.

Since the 1% own 34%, top 10% own 70% of the wealth I see no reason for them to need more income.

To answer your question, if the 1% just magically disappeared tomorrow, their wealth would one way or another work it's way into the hands of non-1%ers (that's all that's left) so the

Can you define ‘one way or another’ specifically?

Ultimately whatever money they took out would have to come from a 99%er who was buying up their shares.

With their 30% part of the wealth?

The 99%er would be getting it at a very low price because of the huge selling panic. So, effectively, by liquidating all their assets they would just be transferring ownership of all the companies to 99%ers are a very low rate. The values of those companies would eventually return to a reasonable P/E ratio, and the 99%ers would become rich. So, again, massive win for the 99%ers.

Eventually, maybe so but would the 99% patiently wait for the pain to subside?
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

You're on a thread about him paying much lower taxes than working people... Is that your impersonation of a person who works? Or what?

Its my impression of the 40-50% who pay no federal income taxes while pissing bitching and moaning about those who pay all kinds of taxes..
 
Last edited:
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

My BS detector just redlined. and like most lefties you ignore the real issue-actual dollars paid in taxes vs benefits received for those dollars.

You have no idea what "benefits" you have received for your tax dollar. But it is safe to say that you underpaid like most in your bracket. Don't worry though, your free ride is about to be over. It's time to rejoin the rest of us on the path to greatness.
 
Last edited:
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

You're on a thread about him paying much lower taxes than working people... Is that your impersonation of a person who works? Or what?

No, he's on a thread where the majority of posters don't understand what Romney said. He was talking about his Effective Tax Rate, not what bracket he's in. Most people don't even know what that is -- he does. Ya'll should, too.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

My BS detector just redlined. and like most lefties you ignore the real issue-actual dollars paid in taxes vs benefits received for those dollars.

There is no such relationship that determines taxation.

You keep bringing nonsense up that is completely irrelevant to the issue of taxation.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Its my impression of the 40-50% who pay no federal income taxes while pissing bitching and moaning about those who pay all kinds of taxes..

They pay no federal income tax because they have such a low income that the deductibles are higher than their income. Maybe you should be asking why you have a society where 50% of the population earn so little and yet statistically you are supposedly a rich nation?

But ultimately it is the fault of a tax system that is broken at both ends. While you can excuse the poor for not paying income taxes up to a point (they have to eat and shelter themselves and need all the income they can get), there is zero excuse for the rich not to pay at least the same % as the middle class.. in fact they should be paying more. It aint fair, but life is not fair. The fact that Romney pays 15% while those who vote for him pay 27% is .... utterly reprehensible and I understand fully why he did not want to share his tax records.. they only prove how out of touch he and his party is with the average American.
 
Maybe you should be asking why you have a society where 50% of the population earn so little and yet statistically you are supposedly a rich nation?

I've asked myself that and found the answer: being a "rich nation" does not and cannot mean that every member is rich. That is utopian fantasy. There are too many people everywhere nowadays for resources and the currencies that represent a claim to them not to be scarce.

So divorce yourself from the notion of the US as a "rich nation."

While you can excuse the poor for not paying income taxes up to a point (they have to eat and shelter themselves and need all the income they can get), there is zero excuse for the rich not to pay at least the same % as the middle class.. in fact they should be paying more. It aint fair, but life is not fair. The fact that Romney pays 15% while those who vote for him pay 27% is .... utterly reprehensible and I understand fully why he did not want to share his tax records.. they only prove how out of touch he and his party is with the average American.

In theory I can agree, or at least refrain from disagreeing. In reality we have to discuss the real world effect of hiking the capital gains tax this significantly.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

I've asked myself that and found the answer: being a "rich nation" does not and cannot mean that every member is rich. That is utopian fantasy. There are too many people everywhere nowadays for resources and the currencies that represent a claim to them not to be scarce.

So divorce yourself from the notion of the US as a "rich nation."
I believe there are terms for nations where the wealth is concentrated at the top to privilaged elites. Noboby is saying everybody is rich, the US is a modern economy not a bannana republic. When he uses the term rich nation he's separating us from the China's and Bolivia's of the world not pretending that every in America is or can make a million+ a year.

In theory I can agree, or at least refrain from disagreeing. In reality we have to discuss the real world effect of hiking the capital gains tax this significantly.

Sure, please show the real world effects in the United States. What was the growth rate before Capital gains rates were slashed. What are they after? Has it led to an explosion of productivity? Has Americans lives improved to validate the lowering of capital gains?
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

I've asked myself that and found the answer: being a "rich nation" does not and cannot mean that every member is rich. That is utopian fantasy. There are too many people everywhere nowadays for resources and the currencies that represent a claim to them not to be scarce.

So divorce yourself from the notion of the US as a "rich nation."

I divorced that idea long ago. To me a rich nation is not the nation with the greatest GDP per capita, but the greatest GDP capita AND the lowest income inequality... and here the US is no where near the top.

In theory I can agree, or at least refrain from disagreeing. In reality we have to discuss the real world effect of hiking the capital gains tax this significantly.

Dont have to discuss anything. It has been done in other countries and there has not been any doomsday negative aspects to it. Like it or no capital gains is "free money" to those who make it.. they hardly work for the money compared to an industrial worker and so on. Hence not only are you punishing the actual working population but you are breeding a society where "free money" is rewarded by lower tax rates. And when that area of "free money" is so highly unregulated (/wave the financial crisis), then it is double punishment when the actual working population has to bail out the "free loaders" who get most of their income via capital gains.

I know the arguments about reinvesting capital gains back into the economy and all that bull****... it is a hyperhole used to justify such a lower tax rate. Like it or not a person earning 10 million in capital gains a year, who pays 1.5 million in taxes on that, wont go starving or invest less of his/her fortune just because he has to pay 2.7 million in taxes instead. Like it or not, the deficit wont go away by cutting to the bone.. you need more income as well, and the best place to get that is from those that actually can afford to pay.
 
I believe there are terms for nations where the wealth is concentrated at the top to privilaged elites. Noboby is saying everybody is rich, the US is a modern economy not a bannana republic. When he uses the term rich nation he's separating us from the China's and Bolivia's of the world not pretending that every in America is or can make a million+ a year.



Sure, please show the real world effects in the United States. What was the growth rate before Capital gains rates were slashed. What are they after? Has it led to an explosion of productivity? Has Americans lives improved to validate the lowering of capital gains?

These questions indicate you're looking to correlation to find causation. A dot-com bubble was inflating in the lead up to the last CG slash. And right after it was slashed, revenues as % of GDP got a boost.

These are very dynamic things. I am not an economist but I know that you can't look to one variable in an economic boom and credit it for the boom itself, much less assume that reintroducing that variable in a depressed period is going to flip the economy.

There are interesting articles out there from folks probably smarter than you and me who could guess the present-day impact of returning CG taxes to somewhere around 30%. I have to go, but I will revisit this later.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

They pay no federal income tax because they have such a low income that the deductibles are higher than their income. Maybe you should be asking why you have a society where 50% of the population earn so little and yet statistically you are supposedly a rich nation?
The average US median income is $50,000.Everyone regardless of how much or how little they make is in a income tax bracket. The lowest being 10% for $0-$8,500 and 35% for those whose income is $379,150 and above. The fact that 40-50% of Americans pay no federal income taxes means they are exploiting those tax breaks/cuts/loopholes or credits just as much as those who actually do pay taxes.


Median U.S. Household Income by State - US News and World Report


Tax Brackets (Federal Income Tax Rates) 2000 through 2011 and 2012
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

They pay no federal income tax because they have such a low income that the deductibles are higher than their income. Maybe you should be asking why you have a society where 50% of the population earn so little and yet statistically you are supposedly a rich nation?

The Wall Street Journal has a name for them - Lucky Duckies. They're lucky they're so poor that the don't pay taxes!

Lucky duckies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (wait for the blackout to end)
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

These questions indicate you're looking to correlation to find causation. A dot-com bubble was inflating in the lead up to the last CG slash. And right after it was slashed, revenues as % of GDP got a boost.

These are very dynamic things. I am not an economist but I know that you can't look to one variable in an economic boom and credit it for the boom itself, much less assume that reintroducing that variable in a depressed period is going to flip the economy.

There are interesting articles out there from folks probably smarter than you and me who could guess the present-day impact of returning CG taxes to somewhere around 30%. I have to go, but I will revisit this later.

Every study I've seen shows very little to no correlation between capital gains taxes and economic growth. Even when taking into account any lag between capital gains rate changes and impact.

When you get back I'm interested in whatever paper you have that predicts a 30% impact on GDP growth.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

The average US median income is $50,000.Everyone regardless of how much or how little they make is in a income tax bracket. The lowest being 10% for $0-$8,500 and 35% for those whose income is $379,150 and above. The fact that 40-50% of Americans pay no federal income taxes means they are exploiting those tax breaks/cuts/loopholes or credits just as much as those who actually do pay taxes.


Median U.S. Household Income by State - US News and World Report


Tax Brackets (Federal Income Tax Rates) 2000 through 2011 and 2012

I would like to point out that 50,000 is household income not median individual income. The median individual income for 2010

By definition, 50 percent of wage earners had net compensation less than or equal to the median wage, which is estimated to be $26,363.55 for 2010.
Wage Statistics for 2010

That means 50% of Americans make less than 26k a year. And you're complaining they don't pay enough in taxes.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

I would like to point out that 50,000 is household income not median individual income. The median individual income for 2010

If they are married filling jointly means they owe 15%,married filling separately or married head of household owe 25%.

Wage Statistics for 2010

That means 50% of Americans make less than 26k a year. And you're complaining they don't pay enough in taxes.

If you are going to be complaining that someone isn't quote and quote paying their fair share in federal income taxes then shouldn't you be paying income taxes first before demanding others pay more? If these people are not paying their federal income taxes it is because they are exploiting those tax breaks/cuts/loopholes or credits just as much as those who actually do pay federal income taxes.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

If they are married filling jointly means they owe 15%,married filling separately or married head of household owe 25%.
I was just pointing out it was for households not individual.

If you are going to be complaining that someone isn't quote and quote paying their fair share in federal income taxes then shouldn't you be paying income taxes first before demanding others pay more? If these people are not paying their federal income taxes it is because they are exploiting those tax breaks/cuts/loopholes or credits just as much as those who actually do pay federal income taxes.

I don't think so. I don't think there's a criteria for having an opinion in public policy. First of all everyone pays payroll taxes. That funds half of the American budget. Yes it's suppose to be for entitlements but it's been used to fund the government and now entitlements are probably going to be cut. So yes, the income tax rate effects everybody even those that don't necessarily pay income taxes. Second of all it's a faulty argument to limit who can weigh in on an argument. It's deflecting the issue from the actual consversation....do we need to change our tax policy and turning it into an argument that the poor need to pony up in American. Then of course...if your a billionaire like Warren Buffet and probably pay more taxes in real dollars than anybody in this country the argument is he should be sending in checks to fund everyone elses tax cuts. Clear case of obfuscating on both accounts from the issue which is American tax policy.

There's also no problems with people using loopholes to pay less...nobody is going to want to pay more than soemone else in their bracket, the discussion is are those loopholes necessary and should they be ended.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

If they are married filling jointly means they owe 15%,married filling separately or married head of household owe 25%.



If you are going to be complaining that someone isn't quote and quote paying their fair share in federal income taxes then shouldn't you be paying income taxes first before demanding others pay more? If these people are not paying their federal income taxes it is because they are exploiting those tax breaks/cuts/loopholes or credits just as much as those who actually do pay federal income taxes.

How much do you think it costs to live in America? There is no money to spare in an income less than $26,000. Do you want blood from a stone? Income tax rates are based on the earners ABLILITY to pay.
So NO, it is not wrong to ask people who make more to pay more. I see you are up for Romney's tax plan to "broaden the base". He wants to steal the middle class's only real deduction, the one their mortgage interest so he can cut the highest bracket even more. He doesn't care that all that new tax money will come out of consumer spending further depressing the economy, not to mention what it will do to the already dismal housing market. Thank heaven he has little chance of a win in Nov. His plan is a sure loser.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

maggie, romney's income is made up of dividends and capital gains. those are taxed at 15%. I am taxed at higher than 15%. so he really DOES pay a much lower percentage of his total income in federal taxes than I do. THAT'S what is ****ed up.

And Romney thinks the tax rates for the rich should be cut even further. Who else could be the better defender of the 15% tax rates for 1% in the main battle of the class war that will be fought in the November election?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom