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Romney reveals he pays about 15% in taxes(edited)

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You don't see that incredibly weak arguments like that are counter-productive?

a left wing partisan calling something weak means nothing to me. the fact is, the uber rich are among the biggest fans of welfare socialism. Just as the rich in feudal eras pushed religion to pacify the masses, the uber wealthy use welfare-socialism for the same thing these days
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

TurtleDude said:
I suspect anyone who isn't a socialist or a far left dem is "far right" to you.
Absolutely false. I suppose fascists, communists, and liberals are all the same to you. You've demonstrated this multiple times. And try to find somebody with more right-wing views than you on the economy. Maybe the An-Caps, but that's about it. This officially makes you far-right.
 
a left wing partisan calling something weak means nothing to me. the fact is, the uber rich are among the biggest fans of welfare socialism. Just as the rich in feudal eras pushed religion to pacify the masses, the uber wealthy use welfare-socialism for the same thing these days

It's true that many wealthy people support a strong safety net. Unfortunately that flies in the face of your silly envy argument, so you have to throw up an even sillier argument to explain it.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Absolutely false. I suppose fascists, communists, and liberals are all the same to you. You've demonstrated this multiple times. And try to find somebody with more right-wing views than you on the economy. Maybe the An-Caps, but that's about it. This officially makes you far-right.

not true but I do see fascism, communism and what the reactionary parasitic statists call liberalism to be all strains of the same sick disease of collectivism

I suspect Clinton would be far right to you.
 
It's true that many wealthy people support a strong safety net. Unfortunately that flies in the face of your silly envy argument, so you have to throw up an even sillier argument to explain it.

LOL -whining about class warfare from Buffett is designed to help the safety net?

we on the right support charity not vote buying government schemes
 
TurtleDude said:
I suspect Clinton would be far right to you.
Nope. Clinton is slightly right of Obama, and Obama himself is slightly right of center with respect to the universal political center (i.e. planned economy on the far-left, unrestrained economy on the far-right).

EDIT: Do you mean Bill Clinton, or Hillary Clinton. I answered for Hillary but I'm not sure of Bill's position.

TurtleDude said:
not true but I do see fascism, communism and what the reactionary parasitic statists call liberalism to be all strains of the same sick disease of collectivism
They come from different strands of thought. They are actually very different. Just ask a communist how much he has in common with liberalism, and you won't find much. Fascists hold an opposition to virtually everything, especially communism and libertarianism.
 
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one of the things the far left does is try to impose --as the proper paradigm--the entire spectrum of various political philosophies or those of europe on the USA to try to pretend Obama is center. The fact is, in terms of workable political orientations in the USA, Obama is among the farthest left that has ever won a major office

anything that makes the individual subordinate to the state ends up being rather similar in practice. Stalinist Russian and Nazi Germany pretty much did the same thing -piled up lots of innocent bodies
 
TurtleDude said:
one of the things the far left does is try to impose --as the proper paradigm--the entire spectrum of various political philosophies or those of europe on the USA to try to pretend Obama is center. The fact is, in terms of workable political orientations in the USA, Obama is among the farthest left that has ever won a major office
No he's not. If you are calling Obama far-left in American terms, then you are lumping him together with Dennis Kucinich and Bernie Sanders. He is obviously right of them, so it is impossible to lump him into this group and call him far-left. And I'm not a far-leftist.

TurtleDude said:
anything that makes the individual subordinate to the state ends up being rather similar in practice. Stalinist Russian and Nazi Germany pretty much did the same thing -piled up lots of innocent bodies
They had different policies. It's the realpolitik that you're comparing, not the economics.
 
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Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

The really sad indictment of American politics today is the reality evidenced in this thread of just how far right the conservative movement has gone. When someone like Obama is considered to be the most radical president we ever had and anyone not on the far right of the spectrum is lumped together as the enemy, it clearly shows just how far down the rabbit hole the warriors of the right have fallen in the last decade or two. Even Reagan would not recognize them any longer.

And notice how they attempt to argue here. They abhor verifiable evidence from the actual historical record in favor of pontificating about their own beliefs and their own conclusions drawn from a faulty and seriously flawed understanding of actual history. They have drunk so much right wing kool aid that their ability to actually deal with anything but right wing propaganda has been irredeemably damaged.

On one hand, they claim that we progressives attack the wealthy but they can show no actual proof of any real attacks beyond mere discussion of tax policy which is right and proper. Then, they themselves criticize the very wealthy and actually float the preposterous premise that they too are against the rest of the wealthy. Make up you mind for heavens sake.

They whine and bitch about class warfare against the rich at the time when taxes upon that class are the lowest in modern history and one of their very own admits that the real class warfare is being waged by the rich against everyone else - and they are winning bigtime.


They have no problem attempting to justify their beliefs with letters written by one member of the Constitutional Convention who gives their personal opinion on issues - but then are quick to dismiss the actual words contained in the Constitution itself as to the purpose of both government and the Constitution which creates that same government. Amazing. Or it would be if we had not seen it time and time and time again.

It is just one denial of reality upon another in favor of axioms as part of what they believe because they want to believe it.
 
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Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

the GOP isn't much different than Reagan or W. The dems on the other hand are far far away more leftwing than Carter, Clinton or Gore (most of Gore's time in office)
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

The really sad indictment of American politics today is the reality evidenced in this thread of just how far right the conservative movement has gone. When someone like Obama is considered to be the most radical president we ever had and anyone not on the far right of the spectrum is lumped together as the enemy, it clearly shows just how far down the rabbit hole the warriors of the right have fallen in the last decade or two. Even Reagan would not recognize them any longer.

And notice how they attempt to argue here. They abhor verifiable evidence from the actual historical record in favor of pontificating about their own beliefs and their own conclusions drawn from a faulty and seriously flawed understanding of actual history. They have drunk so much right wing kool aid that their ability to actually deal with anything but right wing propaganda has been irredeemably damaged.

On one hand, the claim that we attack the wealthy but can show no actual proof of any real attacks beyond mere discussion of tax policy which is right and proper. Then, they themselves attack the very wealthy and actually float the preposterous premise that they too are against the rest of the wealthy. Make up you mind for heaves sake.

They have no problem attempting to justify their beliefs with letters written by one member of the Constitutional Convention who gives their personal opinion on issues - but then are quick to dismiss the actual words contained in the Constitution itself as to the purpose of both government and the Constitution which creates that same government. Amazing. Or it would be if we had not seen it time and time and time again.

Maybe so but it is working. You stated previously the Democrats/liberals have moved to the center...thank you for that ;)
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

the GOP isn't much different than Reagan or W. The dems on the other hand are far far away more leftwing than Carter, Clinton or Gore (most of Gore's time in office)
I want some evidence please. What makes you think that?
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

the GOP isn't much different than Reagan or W. The dems on the other hand are far far away more leftwing than Carter, Clinton or Gore (most of Gore's time in office)

By all means do support that allegation with a comparison of the policies advocated and adopted by both.

I await your verifiable evidence ,
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

I want some evidence please. What makes you think that?

actually understanding the party, its platform and views. so what part of the platform has changed? reagan wanted lower taxes and less government (even if he had to agree to dem pork to get his spending for the military approved). Reagan was sort of against abortion, sort of against gun control, and pro military. what has changed?
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

By all means do support that allegation with a comparison of the policies advocated and adopted by both.

I await your verifiable evidence ,

why should we try to meet standards you try to apply to others that you fail to meet yourself. I want verifiable evidence that the general welfare clause justifies all the welfare socialist crap you want. I want verifiable evidence that the FOUNDERS INTENDED THAT
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

actually understanding the party, its platform and views. so what part of the platform has changed? reagan wanted lower taxes and less government (even if he had to agree to dem pork to get his spending for the military approved). Reagan was sort of against abortion, sort of against gun control, and pro military. what has changed?
No, I meant evidence that today's Democrats are consistently farther left than Gore, Clinton, and Carter.

TurtleDude said:
why should we try to meet standards you try to apply to others that you fail to meet yourself. I want verifiable evidence that the general welfare clause justifies all the welfare socialist crap you want. I want verifiable evidence that the FOUNDERS INTENDED THAT
You aren't answering the question. And welfare isn't socialist.
 
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Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

the ridiculous expectation that they too, someway, somehow will break bread with the top 1% at the Country Club and will share Dom and caviar with Muffy and Scooter.

:2wave: I did! Thought I hate country clubs and I don't golf.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

actually understanding the party, its platform and views. so what part of the platform has changed? reagan wanted lower taxes and less government (even if he had to agree to dem pork to get his spending for the military approved). Reagan was sort of against abortion, sort of against gun control, and pro military. what has changed?

Reagan and immigration reform for one big issue.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

why should we try to meet standards you try to apply to others that you fail to meet yourself. I want verifiable evidence that the general welfare clause justifies all the welfare socialist crap you want. I want verifiable evidence that the FOUNDERS INTENDED THAT

We have their very words in plain English.

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

That ain't bean bag or any freaking federalist paper opinion piece ---- its the actual official US Constitution telling us why it was written and why it creates a government.
 
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Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

the unions that demanded the bailouts of GM will have their shorts in a knot
C'mon Turtle. There's good government handouts, and bad government handouts.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

C'mon Turtle. There's good government handouts, and bad government handouts.

good government handouts buy the dems more votes
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

We have their very words in plain English.



That ain't bean bag or any freaking federalist paper opinion piece ---- its the actual official US Constitution telling us why it was written and why it creates a government.

and the document goes on to list the specific (SPECIFIC) areas where the government was empowered to act
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

good government handouts buy the dems more votes

More pontificating without any verifiable proof...... for a time beyond calculation.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

and the document goes on to list the specific (SPECIFIC) areas where the government was empowered to act

So what is the problem?
 
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