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DMV: 900 Dead People May Have Voted

AdamT said:
There is no indication of any serious voter fraud problem in this country. Bush's DOJ made voter fraud a priority, and their efforsts resulted in exactly ZERO convictions. Incidents where dead people supposedly voted have been investigated in the past, and AFAIK they all turned out to be nothing. This is a non-existent problem that Republicans are trying to use to suppress Democratic voter turnout. What else is new?
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That’s right. And per BHO, elections have consequences. Those states elected their representatives who went to their respective capitals and wrote and passed the legislation (historically several of these were passed by Dem and mixed majorities). Now if the electorate can organize a large enough effort to either repeal the legislation or elect representatives who can organize a concretive effort to change the law it is what it is. Whine all you want but that is the way it works.
 
Dickieboy said:
That’s right. And per BHO, elections have consequences. Those states elected their representatives who went to their respective capitals and wrote and passed the legislation (historically several of these were passed by Dem and mixed majorities). Now if the electorate can organize a large enough effort to either repeal the legislation or elect representatives who can organize a concretive effort to change the law it is what it is. Whine all you want but that is the way it works.
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As you say, elections have consequences. Some of these laws are already under attack by voters. I expect others will follow.

And Rhode Island is the only state with a democratically controlled legislature that has passed one of these laws.
 
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VanceMack said:
Its a silly argument. Fraud happens. Wouldst that we didnt have so many in this country that were such liars and cheats, but...sadly...it happens. East St Louis. Wisconsin. Kentucky (republicans). Vote buying, voter fraud...to say nothing of the literally hundreds of thousands of illegal voter registration acts by (shocking) democrat backed agencies.
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And unfortunately, requiring ID doesn't solve these problems. What it does is it means that voter fraud would then require a large group of people who have a vested interest in the outcome of the election. Like maybe the Republican and Democratic parties? How likely do you think that either of them is likely to investigate after they successfully fixed the election?
 
Wiggen said:
Most states cross check voter registration records with other records in order to minimize this sort of thing from happening.
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What would someone say if they showed up to vote only to find that their name had mistakenly been purged from the voter roll?

Voting should be encouraged and made easier.

Officials say they make every effort to rid the voter rolls of dead people. Workers in the Harris County tax assessor and voter registrar's office comb through obituaries, death certificates and legal documents filed after a person's death. They use those records, along with confirmation from family members, to identify dead people on the rolls.

"We do all we can, but you know, we'd rather err on the side of leaving people on the roll instead of taking them off inadvertently," George Hammerlein, director of Harris County voter registration, told KPRC-Local 2 Investigates.

Hammerlein said the office has "never had any evidence" of an organized attempt to defraud the system.

Ballots cast in Houston using dead voters' names | Texas Healthcare Report
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Of note in this article of the 4,000 dead people found on Harris County's voter rolls by a Texas Watchdog analysis, only one was found to have actually cast a vote.

Voter fraud should be identified and prosecuted to the full extent of the law, but not to the detriment of possibly preventing an honest and legal vote.


Blackstone's formulation of "Better 10 Guilty Men Go Free than to Convict a Single Innocent Man" is the cornerstone of our system of justice. It applies here.
 
Here is the Secretary of States pronouncement regarding Michigan voters without a photo ID.

Voters without picture ID: Michigan election law anticipates that
not all voters will have picture ID. Voters who do not have
acceptable picture ID or forgot to bring acceptable picture ID to the
polls can vote like any other voter by signing an affidavit.
Questions regarding the voter identification requirement can be
directed to your local city or township clerk’s office.

So Michigan voters will continue to vote without photo ID.

As I have said, I have been voting for forty years and have never been asked for any ID of any kind - photo or otherwise. A simple signature and that is it. I voted a recently as 2011. I will attempt to find out about this recent Michigan court case which caused the Secretary of State to issue these guidelines.
 
haymarket said:
Here is the Secretary of States pronouncement regarding Michigan voters without a photo ID.

So Michigan voters will continue to vote without photo ID.

As I have said, I have been voting for forty years and have never been asked for any ID of any kind - photo or otherwise. A simple signature and that is it. I voted a recently as 2011. I will attempt to find out about this recent Michigan court case which caused the Secretary of State to issue these guidelines.
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Yes, I saw that quote previously which is why I alerted you to the new law (admittedly snarky). I didn't want you to get riled up at the poll my friend. I caught this while researching the various state statuses and sitting legislature/governor party affiliation. I predict that unless repealed the 'not required' proviso will stand for a short time. Ultimately government typically allows some 'transition' period before imposing strictly. IMHO.
 
rocket88 said:
And unfortunately, requiring ID doesn't solve these problems. What it does is it means that voter fraud would then require a large group of people who have a vested interest in the outcome of the election. Like maybe the Republican and Democratic parties? How likely do you think that either of them is likely to investigate after they successfully fixed the election?
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One step at a time. When you have agencies committing fraudulent voter registration, you can only blame those agencies and those who support them for creating the mess. Voter ID will do one thing...make sure the person casting the ballot is who they say they are. If I had my way ANYONE found guilty of vote fraud, buying votes and illegally denying citizens their vote would face big boy prison. Im tired of the week long counts, recounts, oops, found a new mystery bag of votes, denial of military voters, etc etc etc. Everyone else should be the same.
 
VanceMack said:
One step at a time. When you have agencies committing fraudulent voter registration, you can only blame those agencies and those who support them for creating the mess. [...]
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Who are these mysterious agencies that are wrecking our elections? Can you tune us in to that tin foil hat channel?
 
Karl said:
Who are these mysterious agencies that are wrecking our elections? Can you tune us in to that tin foil hat channel?
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You cant be serious. You really dont know how many incidents of fraudulent voter registration have been documented by ACORN and their ilk? Seriously?

Just for fun you might want to google the election fraud in East St Louis, Kentucky, and others. Both major parties have people guilty of it. In Florida recently damn near a whole precint worth of poll workers were arrested for vote fraud for filing ballots for other people.

The reality is we dont know HOW many votes have been fraudulently cast...primarily because in most places people just sign and vote. We dont investigate every vote and voter. Maybe we should. The process is too important.
 
VanceMack said:
You cant be serious. You really dont know how many incidents of fraudulent voter registration have been documented by ACORN and their ilk? Seriously?

Just for fun you might want to google the election fraud in East St Louis, Kentucky, and others. Both major parties have people guilty of it. In Florida recently damn near a whole precint worth of poll workers were arrested for vote fraud for filing ballots for other people.

The reality is we dont know HOW many votes have been fraudulently cast...primarily because in most places people just sign and vote. We dont investigate every vote and voter. Maybe we should. The process is too important.
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You have some links?
 
VanceMack said:
You cant be serious. You really dont know how many incidents of fraudulent voter registration have been documented by ACORN and their ilk? Seriously?
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The ACORN voter registration stuff didn't have anything to do with elections. ACORN paid people per registration form they collected. Some of the folks doing that for them figured "hey, why don't I just put made up names on these forms to bilk some extra money out of ACORN" so they wrote down made up names. That doesn't have anything to do with changing the result of any election or anything. They just got bounced by the board of elections since they were bogus names. It happened enough in a few places that the boards of elections got (rightly) sick of having their time wasted, so they sued.
 
VanceMack said:
Im tired of the week long counts, recounts, oops, found a new mystery bag of votes, denial of military voters, etc etc etc. Everyone else should be the same.
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I am too, but I'd like to see measures taken that fix those problems. Instead we'll get photo ID and a bunch of Republican politicians crowing about how they "stopped voter fraud."
 
teamosil said:
The ACORN voter registration stuff didn't have anything to do with elections. ACORN paid people per registration form they collected. Some of the folks doing that for them figured "hey, why don't I just put made up names on these forms to bilk some extra money out of ACORN" so they wrote down made up names. That doesn't have anything to do with changing the result of any election or anything. They just got bounced by the board of elections since they were bogus names. It happened enough in a few places that the boards of elections got (rightly) sick of having their time wasted, so they sued.
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The right knows that. They still think they have a valid argument, however. They think that they can really claim that since someone wrote Mickey Mouse down on a voter registration form, that means that Mickey Mouse voted, and that people will believe that. Go figure <shrug>

They also think that James O'Keefe really did wear that pimp outfit in the ACORN videos. The right is a real hoot :mrgreen:
 
VanceMack said:
[...] The reality is we dont know HOW many votes have been fraudulently cast... [...]
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I do. Carl Sagan told me. Billions and billions.... :lamo
 
The wonderful Florida GOP is also trying to push through one of these disenfranchise the voter bills. Voter fraud is a real serious problem. I mean, in the last three years alone there have been ... two [2] ... arrests connected to voter fraud.
 
Karl said:
Admittedly, NH should tighten up a bit on canvassing those death notices, but is there really a looming problem here? One requiring state-issued photo ID?
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What is wrong with requiring someone to prove who they are before they vote in the person's name they claim to be? it isn't THAT hard. Surely, it can't be as hard as it is to get to the polls in the first place.

I asked this question to my adult students last week and every single one of them, EVERY ONE, was incredulous that you can vote in the United States without showing an identification. Not one thought there was any problem with it. For the record, we live in a country that requires an ID to vote and more than 75% percent voted this past weekend despite the fact that one has to travel back to ones hometown (sometimes hundreds of kilometers away from where they live and work) to vote.
 
Deuce said:
O'Keefe has a proven history of editing footage to show something that didn't really happen, so you'll have to forgive me for not taking a video from him at face value!

(remember the Acorn-helping-prostitute thing? total bull****)
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So how exactly could this have been edited? The NH Attorney General's office is investigating the voting situation according to people back in the state of my birth...
 
AdamT said:
There is no indication of any serious voter fraud problem in this country. Bush's DOJ made voter fraud a priority, and their efforsts resulted in exactly ZERO convictions. Incidents where dead people supposedly voted have been investigated in the past, and AFAIK they all turned out to be nothing. This is a non-existent problem that Republicans are trying to use to suppress Democratic voter turnout. What else is new?
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Are you sure about that ???

68 dead people are confirmed by the Shelby County Election Commission as having voted between 1994 and 2004.

"You're always irritated that something happens like this. Not all of these happened on my watch. It's doesn't matter doesn't matter if it happened on my or anyone's watch," said commission administrator James Johnson.

The investigation uncovered several names, which according to commission records, voted as much as eight and 10 years after federal records show they died.

"I certainly have no idea how any of this could have happened," said Johnson, but election Commissioner Richard Holden says he does.

"It clearly exists as a result of someone committing a felony," said Holden.
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Investigation finds more dead people on voting rolls - Action News 5 - Memphis, Tennessee

This is just one that I was familiar with since I lived in Memphis at the time. I'm sure there are thousands more around the country that don't get reported.
 
Krhazy said:
What are you talking about? First of all, poor black people aren't the only ones affected by ID laws. Second, the price of an airplane ticket is probably going to disqualify a poor person before not having an ID does. Third, flying is not a fundamental right. Fourth, the public interest in safety is implicated to a much greater degree in the case of individuals hijacking airplanes, which has happened dozens of times throughout history, than it is by a fraudulent election, which has only happened once and was achieved by Republican manipulation of the results, not by voter fraud. Fifth, the TSA can waive the ID requirement if it is satisfied you are not a threat (I know, because they waived it for me once when I forgot my photo ID). Sixth, the 9th Circuit has held that you can still fly provided you agree to undergo more stringent screening. All of which goes to demonstrate that the situations are completely different.
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So because you think the poor will never fly, it's not an issue. How about if someone pays for their ticket, what will they do then? If safety is so paramount for flying, why aren't we instituting profiling techniques like the Israelis do?
 
rocket88 said:
And unfortunately, requiring ID doesn't solve these problems. What it does is it means that voter fraud would then require a large group of people who have a vested interest in the outcome of the election. Like maybe the Republican and Democratic parties? How likely do you think that either of them is likely to investigate after they successfully fixed the election?
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Not at all. thats part of the problem...people dont give a **** about the problem when its their guys benefitting. Voter ID isnt going to fix everything. its not meant to. it is meant to ensure one person, one vote, and that person is who they say they are. For all the bed wetting about OMIGOSH...show an ID??? Good lord...grow the **** up. You have to show an ID for countless services in this country. You have to show an ID to follow the provisions enumerated in the second amendment...a constitutional right. It would be wonderful if people were honest, honorable, and voted appropriately. Unfortunately, we have more than a few scumbags and liars in our midst. Deal with it. And if you arent smart enough to to realize that you live in a state that by law requires an ID to vote and follow the basic rules, then you arent smart enough to vote. Dont blame the rules and laws...blame piss poor genetics. Blame yourself.
 
Gill said:
Are you sure about that ???


Investigation finds more dead people on voting rolls - Action News 5 - Memphis, Tennessee

This is just one that I was familiar with since I lived in Memphis at the time. I'm sure there are thousands more around the country that don't get reported.
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I'm not saying that it NEVER happens, but it's extremely rare and more likely than not it would happen even with voter ID in place because these things tend to be done by poll workers or others participating in the vote tally process. Obviously Shelby County has some problems.... The Free Press -- Independent News Media from Columbus, Ohio

That said, the county has a population of about 1 million. So say you five elections over that 10 year span; that comes to about 14 fraudulent votes per election. According to several studies, a strict voter ID law would be expected to reduce voter participation by 10,000 to 15,000. So which is the greater evil, taking into consideration that the ID law might not even prevent some or all of the fraudulent votes?
 
teamosil said:
The ACORN voter registration stuff didn't have anything to do with elections. ACORN paid people per registration form they collected. Some of the folks doing that for them figured "hey, why don't I just put made up names on these forms to bilk some extra money out of ACORN" so they wrote down made up names. That doesn't have anything to do with changing the result of any election or anything. They just got bounced by the board of elections since they were bogus names. It happened enough in a few places that the boards of elections got (rightly) sick of having their time wasted, so they sued.
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Yes...ACORN was an innocent victim, 'bilked' by the registrants. And since there were literally hundreds of thousands of people fraudulently registered without any form of ID, what is to stop them from VOTING under those fraudulent registrations? Blame the scumbags that created the problem. Funny what side of the fence so many of them land on.
 
VanceMack said:
Yes...ACORN was an innocent victim, 'bilked' by the registrants. And since there were literally hundreds of thousands of people fraudulently registered without any form of ID, what is to stop them from VOTING under those fraudulent registrations? Blame the scumbags that created the problem. Funny what side of the fence so many of them land on.
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No there were not literally hundreds of thousands of people fraudulently registered. Nor were hundreds of thousands of fraudulent applications submitted. There is a difference between registering and submitting, btw. ACORN did not register anyone to vote. They collected registration forms and submitted them to state registrars, who are supposed to check the applications before actually registering anyone. ACORN claimed that it also checked the forms before turning them in, though they may not have been 100% compliant with their own procedures.
 
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