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US military cutbacks

I think I remember hearing that new troops don't have to pay into the GI Bill. When I enlisted ten years ago, you had to pay $100 a month for your first year, which was a little more than 10%. But you had to either do that or opt out at the time, with no way to change your mind. With the new plan, you are automatically enrolled, just like the you are automatically enrolled in your retirement and healthcare plans.
 
You do still have to pay into it. It ends up being about $2,000 when its all said and done. The GI Bill works much like Social Security in that the gov't knows that not everyone will use it. Traditionally, roughly 50% of service members use it (although 70% used it last year). In addition, and something that no one talks about, you must leave the service (I know the Marines do this, not sure what the other service's policies are) with an honorable discharge and at least 4.0 average conduct marks in service. Without going into much detail, a Marine can very easily dip below the 4.0 conduct mark (the scale is 0-5) by being overweight, being non-judicially punished (a slap on the wrist), having excessive speeding tickets, etc. There's a lot of stuff that can dip a Marine below 4.0 conduct marks. Also, if a Marine is administratively seperated from the service for something besides medical reasons, he loses his GI Bill. If you think about it, it only takes a year for someone to pay off their GI Bill. So you take 3 months of recruit training, at least 1 month of MOS training, thats 8 months a kid has to screw up bad enough that he would be kicked out before paying all of his GI Bill dues. Not likely at all.
To be fair, I'm sure the gov't did anticipate (shocker) that 70% of servicemembers would use it. This may be an outlier, but, its still there. I believe the program, if it continues at the 50% rate, is sound and pays for itself. If the 70% usage continues, its time for our gov't to take another look at it because then it ceases to pay for itself.
Lastly, I don't have data on this because I can't find it anywhere, but there is a pay scale of what a service member receives according to how many years he is in school. If someone gets out and goes to a short technical school, they only receive enough money to pay for those hours. It isn't a lump sum where a service member receives enough money for 3 years of college when he is only taking 6 months of classes.
You guys can throw it in my face all you want that I said we should have a level playing field. A level playing field would mean all of you served 4 years, just like thosehonorable men and women. However, some of you choose not too. In fact, 91% of you choose not too (US Census data). So, if we want to talk about a level playing field, while those of you that went were in college, these guys were in Iraq or Afghanistan being shot at. While you were at a frat party getting hammered, they were standing post in a bunker missing their girlfriend or wife. I understand they volunteered for it. I also understand you didn't. Not all military, as some would have you believe, are citizens that can't do anything else so they join. The average Special Forces serviemember holds a bachelor's degree with many having a masters or higher. Every officer has a bachelors degree. Every enlisted man has a high school diploma or equilavent. That's more than we can say for the civilian population.
 
Like I said, we pay into the GI Bill. It's not a handout. Just like an insurance policy or a retirement. I see nothing wrong with that.
You're welcome for your freedom, BTW.

So the amount you pay into the GI Bill is equal to your college tuition for the tenure of your studies there?

YOU, BTW, have done nothing for my freedom other than participate in events which the government then uses as excuses to whittle away my freedom.
 
You do still have to pay into it. It ends up being about $2,000 when its all said and done.

Just for reference, how much does the average education received by a serviceman cost vs. how much they receive they actually pay into it? For example, if you, a Marine pays his $2,000 - can you attend an university where the yearly tuition in $15,000?
 
I was in the infantry and that crosses over to the civilian world less than most other MOS's. Wanna know what I did? I got up off mass and got a job. I had to fake it for a while, but eventually, I got the hang of it and went from crawling, to walking, to running.

I like to say: The only skill I got from the military that's useful in the civilian world (hopefully) is carrying heavy objects.


Can I ask what percentage of his yearly income the average serviceman would pay into the GI bill? Also, if you do not consider the GI bill to be a handout because people pay "into it", what do you make of the social services that people pay into through sales taxes, excise taxes etc? Are they handouts?

Just for reference, how much does the average education received by a serviceman cost vs. how much they receive they actually pay into it? For example, if you, a Marine pays his $2,000 - can you attend an university where the yearly tuition in $15,000?

When I was in ~90, it was 100/month for the first year. Not all jobs (MOSs) gave GI Bill and the College Fund. Together, they were ~50k, which could be spent over a period of 10 years once first used. It was dispersed per month according to enrollment, ~1k per month full time (~500 for part time) and was revoked for any class that the vet earns under a C (subtracted from account to be paid per month). That's ~3k/semester when fulltime. One can also work in the vet office at the school partime. I figure most GI Bill/College Fund eligible vets never use it because they stay in the military or get otherwise employed, or they don't make the grades or stay in long enough to use it all.

So, GI is separate from the College Fund (which everyone gets?), is only for the most dangerous jobs (is that still true?) and it requires performance to be dispersed.

It's not just "here's some cash for school, sonny!"
 
SOP. Dems always cut the military, move along folks nuthin too see here.

Do you realize we spend almost as much on military as the rest of the world combined???

Would you suggest we raise taxes to pay for this excessive military spending, or continue adding it on the National debt?

Some folks are saying we have a debt problem..........
 
Do you realize we spend almost as much on military as the rest of the world combined???

Would you suggest we raise taxes to pay for this excessive military spending, or continue adding it on the National debt?

Some folks are saying we have a debt problem..........

No, I think we should cut the entitlements by 600 billion too, and raise taxes on everyone by about 10%.

But, as evidenced by page 2 of this thread, as soon as you "save" money, someone else wants to spend it.
 
How did a thread about cutting military spending become a scrutiny of the GI bill, and the college fund?


Look, I think it's a good thing service men and women get education. Better than they getting out and becoming a drain on society, lol. How many of you have know folks that leave the military, for the first few months? **** is hard. It's a different world. You go from people depending on you, being important, and a part of a much larger whole...to being nobody in a crowd of other nobodies. For people that saw actual combat during their tenure, add to that a certain level of stress, and an aversion to sudden, loud noises. Better they have something to do that is enriching to them, than they sit at home, in their room, with the lights off, drinking excessive booze, on my dime.

As for cutting military budget, I think it's only natural. We went at these wars all wrong. The fact we call them wars is all wrong. We never should have sent tanks, SUVs, drones, etc etc etc. What we did was the equivalent of trying to remove a tumor with a battle axe. What we needed, was a more precise instrument...and the most precise instrument on this planet is a marine sniper. Good intel + good sniping was all it would have taken to really turn the war on terror on it's ear. Terrorize the terrorists, and see how many are rushing to join up then...when, at any moment, the guy next to you could drop dead, with a huge gaping hole in his chest, and YOU don't even hear the gunshot till seconds later. No civilian casualties, no blown up buildings (well, SOME, statistically), no shot kids (unless they were shooting back). Just my .02 cents.
 
Just for reference, how much does the average education received by a serviceman cost vs. how much they receive they actually pay into it? For example, if you, a Marine pays his $2,000 - can you attend an university where the yearly tuition in $15,000?

It now pays 100% tuition up to the cost of the most expensive state school in any give state. For example, in Texas, the post-9/11 GI Bill will pay 100% of tuition up to $60,000 a year.

In addition, it pays the vet a housing allowance based on a married E-5, which is anywhere from $1,000-$2,200 depending on where you live.
 
It now pays 100% tuition up to the cost of the most expensive state school in any give state. For example, in Texas, the post-9/11 GI Bill will pay 100% of tuition up to $60,000 a year.

In addition, it pays the vet a housing allowance based on a married E-5, which is anywhere from $1,000-$2,200 depending on where you live.

Gonzo, if you don't mind C/P a copy of this post and put it here for future references. you and MarineTpartier are more than welcome to sign in and put up your unit number with the rest of us.

The Veterans - Debate Politics Forums
 
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So the amount you pay into the GI Bill is equal to your college tuition for the tenure of your studies there?
I love when people purposely omit portions of someones counter point on here. I just said not everyone uses the bill, but still pay into it. Thats the offset.

YOU, BTW, have done nothing for my freedom other than participate in events which the government then uses as excuses to whittle away my freedom.
Keep telling yourself that bro. That's why I do it, so you can say that.
 
Do you realize we spend almost as much on military as the rest of the world combined???

Would you suggest we raise taxes to pay for this excessive military spending, or continue adding it on the National debt?

Some folks are saying we have a debt problem..........
And thats why we're the greatest nation in the world. Because no one can pull a Saddam on us and just bum rush the border whenever they feel like it. In addition, military spending only makes up 4.7% of GDP. I suggest we cut some un-needed programs before we go after the military. However, I will agree that there are some programs the military can cut. We can always be better stewards with taxpayer dollars, no question. But to say that it is good that my unit, for instance, cannot afford the fuel to drive 10 miles to a firing range nor the rounds to fire a qualification table until May is absurd. Not too absurd though because guess what. Its happening. Lets compare that to this. How would you feel if you found out your doctor was about to perform open heart surgery on you, but due to hospital funding, he hadn't practiced it in about 4 months. But, some people on this forum (not saying you) will be the first to demonize a Marine or soldier for missing his intended target in Afghanistan and hitting a civilian kid instead. Thats the trickle down effect of cutting funding for us in the manner that our gov't is doing it.
 
And thats why we're the greatest nation in the world. Because no one can pull a Saddam on us and just bum rush the border whenever they feel like it. In addition, military spending only makes up 4.7% of GDP. I suggest we cut some un-needed programs before we go after the military. However, I will agree that there are some programs the military can cut. We can always be better stewards with taxpayer dollars, no question. But to say that it is good that my unit, for instance, cannot afford the fuel to drive 10 miles to a firing range nor the rounds to fire a qualification table until May is absurd. Not too absurd though because guess what. Its happening. Lets compare that to this. How would you feel if you found out your doctor was about to perform open heart surgery on you, but due to hospital funding, he hadn't practiced it in about 4 months. But, some people on this forum (not saying you) will be the first to demonize a Marine or soldier for missing his intended target in Afghanistan and hitting a civilian kid instead. Thats the trickle down effect of cutting funding for us in the manner that our gov't is doing it.

Saddam??? Iraq was one of the weakest military countries on the planet when we invaded and occupied their country on behalf of big oil. If you feel beholden to big oil to the point you want to go racking up trillions more in debt, you do it without my support.
 
No, I think we should cut the entitlements by 600 billion too, and raise taxes on everyone by about 10%.

But, as evidenced by page 2 of this thread, as soon as you "save" money, someone else wants to spend it.


Yes, all we have to do is sacrifice the well being of our own people to bring Democracy (they don't want) to everyone else. Makes perfect sense! LOL!
 
Saddam??? Iraq was one of the weakest military countries on the planet when we invaded and occupied their country on behalf of big oil. If you feel beholden to big oil to the point you want to go racking up trillions more in debt, you do it without my support.
Remember? Saddam bum rushed Kuwait in 90? You should be more spun up on military events if you want to post in a military forum man. I shouldn't have to spell that out.
 
Remember? Saddam bum rushed Kuwait in 90? You should be more spun up on military events if you want to post in a military forum man. I shouldn't have to spell that out.

We completely destroyed that threat in the Persian Gulf war followed by our ten years of sanctions. Our invasion and occupation was for the benefit of big oil who had been locked out of Iraq for 35 years prior. They are now back in and they thank your for your service to them!
 
Yes, all we have to do is sacrifice the well being of our own people to bring Democracy (they don't want) to everyone else. Makes perfect sense! LOL!

The program that makes up 25% of total spending must be cut, but the programs that make up 67% of total spending must stay as is, or expanded. Got it.

And people say we have a spending problem....
 
We completely destroyed that threat in the Persian Gulf war followed by our ten years of sanctions. Our invasion and occupation was for the benefit of big oil who had been locked out of Iraq for 35 years prior. They are now back in and they thank your for your service to them!
OH MY GOD!!! I AM SAYING THAT WITHOUT A MILITARY, WE WOULD BE KUWAIT, GETTING BUM RUSHED BY A DICTATOR OR SOME OTHER WORLD SOCIOPATH!! I am having a hard time not throwing personal insults at you right now. Like that stupid little comment you added at the bottom of yours. Ungrateful people like you make me sick. Before I go into a Jack Nicholson "A Few Good Men" speech, I'll just stop.
 
I love when people purposely omit portions of someones counter point on here. I just said not everyone uses the bill, but still pay into it. Thats the offset.

So your "offset" is that you're going to make others pay for your tuition, huh? I thought you wanted to be treated like everyone else.

Keep telling yourself that bro. That's why I do it, so you can say that.

You personally have had no impact on my freedom of speech. You may live in your delusions of grandeur, but it doesn't change reality. There is no State which threatens our sovereignty nor have we been invaded.
 
Remember? Saddam bum rushed Kuwait in 90? You should be more spun up on military events if you want to post in a military forum man. I shouldn't have to spell that out.

After Kuwait was side drilling into Iraqi oil reserves and our then ambassador to Iraq essentially said that the US would have no opinion on Iraq trying to reassert its sovereignty.
 
The program that makes up 25% of total spending must be cut, but the programs that make up 67% of total spending must stay as is, or expanded. Got it.

And people say we have a spending problem....

You cut what is most wasteful - that is our excessive military spending over the last decade. SS has not added a dime to our debt, and Medicare's problem is the most expensive health care system on the planet. In order to fix that, we need to upgrade our health care system as every other industrialized country on the planet has done.
 
OH MY GOD!!! I AM SAYING THAT WITHOUT A MILITARY, WE WOULD BE KUWAIT, GETTING BUM RUSHED BY A DICTATOR OR SOME OTHER WORLD SOCIOPATH!! I am having a hard time not throwing personal insults at you right now. Like that stupid little comment you added at the bottom of yours. Ungrateful people like you make me sick. Before I go into a Jack Nicholson "A Few Good Men" speech, I'll just stop.

Probably just as well, as you bring nothing to the table to prove Iraq was a threat to the US, or even its neighbors post Persian Gulf War.

The majority of post-9/11 Veterans say it was not worth it:

"In a new Pew Research Center report on war and sacrifice, half of post-9/11 veterans said the Afghanistan war has been worth fighting. Only 44% felt that way about Iraq, and one-third said both wars were worth the costs."

Survey: Veterans say Afghanistan, Iraq wars not worth it - CNN.com
 
So your "offset" is that you're going to make others pay for your tuition, huh? I thought you wanted to be treated like everyone else.
Which goes back to the original point that it isn't a required program. Tell yourself what you need to so you an be right though.

You personally have had no impact on my freedom of speech. You may live in your delusions of grandeur, but it doesn't change reality. There is no State which threatens our sovereignty nor have we been invaded.
No delusion my friend. No one threatens our sovereignty because people like me and others posting on herestand in there way. Brings me to the point of this thread. When you're the biggest kid on the block, sure people may try to challenge you, but no one is going to succeed. Thats the state we're in whether you want to believe it or not. There are many countries on this earth that would love to see our country burn to the ground. Unlike you, I appreciate that people before me, with me, and in the future defend us against that. You need a heavy dose of reality my friend. Not everything is as cushy as you would have us believe it is.
 
Probably just as well, as you bring nothing to the table to prove Iraq was a threat to the US, or even its neighbors post Persian Gulf War.

The majority of post-9/11 Veterans say it was not worth it:

"In a new Pew Research Center report on war and sacrifice, half of post-9/11 veterans said the Afghanistan war has been worth fighting. Only 44% felt that way about Iraq, and one-third said both wars were worth the costs."

Survey: Veterans say Afghanistan, Iraq wars not worth it - CNN.com
Dude, that wasn't even the point to begin with. I used Iraq as an example because it is a familiar place we all know. Iraq was a threat to Kuwait because the violated their border. That was the point. Not that they were a threat to us. It was a hypothetical that if we have a weak military we could be in the same predicament that Kuwait was. Was that drawn out enough for you? If not, I'm done trying to explain it.
 
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