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US military cutbacks

Catawba said:
The American Jobs Act that the GOP blocked included a provision to offer tax credits to employers that hire Veterans.
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It also would have raised income taxes so that kinda offsets itself huh?
 
Yeah, we know. The 'trickle down' theory. Not even Republicans believe that pile of horse manure any more.
 
Catawba said:
The American Jobs Act that the GOP blocked included a provision to offer tax credits to employers that hire Veterans.
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Like a tax credit is going to cause new hiring. Companies aren't going to spend 50 grand, just to get a $3,000 tax credit.

That's nothing more than a political hat trick to ake people think that you give a ****.
 
Catawba said:
Have you actually read anything about the American Jobs Act???

All I see are things to help businesses, as well as Veterans:

Fact Sheet: The American Jobs Act | The White House
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The American Jobs Act is a joke! The only way for the benefits to kick in, is for businesses to spend more money than the benefits will save them.

It's insulting to us small business operators, that the Libbos would think we're actually stupid enough to buy into this bull****.

Since Obama said it's a good thing, I reckon that's good enough for some folks.
 
Wiggen said:
Yeah, we know. The 'trickle down' theory. Not even Republicans believe that pile of horse manure any more.
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What do you propose? A, "trickle into the government coffers", plan?
 
apdst said:
The American Jobs Act is a joke! The only way for the benefits to kick in, is for businesses to spend more money than the benefits will save them.

It's insulting to us small business operators, that the Libbos would think we're actually stupid enough to buy into this bull****.

Since Obama said it's a good thing, I reckon that's good enough for some folks.
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Not only that, but Obama can't even get the Democrats to vote for it. He calls a Joint Session of Congress, normally reserved for such as requesting a Declaration of War, or an address by the Head of a Major Country, so that he can say "Pass This Jobs Bill NOW". Most absurd spectacle I have ever seen before a Joint Session. And his own party told him to take a hike when it was all over.
 
Catawba said:
Have you actually read anything about the American Jobs Act???

All I see are things to help businesses, as well as Veterans:

Fact Sheet: The American Jobs Act | The White House
Click to expand...
Yes, I have read it. I am a Vet and we take offense to it. Its like reverse Affirmative Action. I don't want preferential treatment. I want to be treated like everyone else. If I'm not competitive, don't hire me. This is how the libs operate. They think, "If we give them entitlements, they will support us just like the blacks, unions, environmentalists, gays, etc." It would really bug me if I applied for a job and found out I was hired for a tax break over a guy who has put in hard work and gone to college to get the same job. Honestly, I would quit if I found that out. Unlike all these Occupiers with their iPhones, I'm not above working at McDonald's. I'll work anywhere before I accept unemployment.
 
Eighty Deuce said:
Not only that, but Obama can't even get the Democrats to vote for it. He calls a Joint Session of Congress, normally reserved for such as requesting a Declaration of War, or an address by the Head of a Major Country, so that he can say "Pass This Jobs Bill NOW". Most absurd spectacle I have ever seen before a Joint Session. And his own party told him to take a hike when it was all over.
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Dems on the hill haven't supported him for awhile. Maybe Pelosi, but she's a freak anyway. That speech was hilarious btw. Did you hear the newest one on Limbaugh? He was at some high school and told them they inspire him. There was a awkward pause, then they laughed at him. His response? "No, seriously!" Then his other gem (wonder why the media doesn't put this on the news like they did when Bush screwed a speech up). He gets up in front of some rich guy dinner where it was like 14 trillion per plate or something (hey, that's a way to solve the deficit!!!) and says "You gotta know before you owe. Hey thats a good campaign saying. You gotta owe before you know, no wait, you gotta know before you owe. Yeah, thats it." What an idiot. I got a campaign slogan for him. "Say no to the O"
 
MarineTpartier said:
Yes, I have read it. I am a Vet and we take offense to it. Its like reverse Affirmative Action. I don't want preferential treatment. I want to be treated like everyone else. If I'm not competitive, don't hire me. This is how the libs operate. They think, "If we give them entitlements, they will support us just like the blacks, unions, environmentalists, gays, etc." It would really bug me if I applied for a job and found out I was hired for a tax break over a guy who has put in hard work and gone to college to get the same job. Honestly, I would quit if I found that out. Unlike all these Occupiers with their iPhones, I'm not above working at McDonald's. I'll work anywhere before I accept unemployment.
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I am also a vet, and I think those provisions of the act were welcome and needed. There is a reason why the national unemployment numbers show a higher rate for vets. The problem is that the government got smart about ten years ago and broke up "job skills" into "job sub-categories," and the result is that, with few exceptions, military skill sets do not translate well to civilian capacity anymore. There are some skills that are highly desirable on the market, such as a jet engine mechanic would have for example, but what call is there for an infantryman, who spent the better part of his prime college years learning how to shoot people? The private security industry is still, largely, government run.

Almost all of the highly desirable skills (avionics/general aviation electronics, radar, nuclear engineering, communications, and other specialties) that translate *directly* to a civilian component are already government subsidized, i.e. these people go right back to work for the government when they get out usually. There are already programs in place that give these types of vets a leg up on non-vet competition: just show your DD-214 and you're pretty much hired. But there just simply aren't any jobs for tank drivers, artillerymen, infantry, yeoman, and a host of other specialties that have no civilian component.

The current ops tempo also stops many people from getting a degree while they're in. Support jobs, like finance, personnel, cooks, and medical, need to cert by civilian standards when they get out. Even mechanics have to attend some type of training if they go to the commercial market, because Delta Airlines doesn't put F108 engines on their aircraft, and civilian hummers don't use military HMMWV engines. And you don't get a degree just by showing up; finance troops don't get accounting degrees, personnel troops don't get business degrees, cooks don't get culinary degrees... hell, even medics and medical assistants have to recert in the civilian world before they can become EMTs or go to work in a doctor's office. And all of this stands outside of the ever-growing number of vets with PTSD. Some people are scared to hire vets, especially if they may already be burned out. The best thing for them in that case is to reengage life and start a career, but not many people are willing to take someone who's already given so much of themselves and breath some life back into them.

I found the programs necessary to combat the growing trend of disproportionate unemployment. It's really too bad that wasn't reason enough to write the bill. No, it had to be attached to some other political plum, which is a damn shame, because it was a good idea in and of itself.
 
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Gonzo Rodeo said:
I am also a vet, and I think those provisions of the act were welcome and needed. There is a reason why the national unemployment numbers show a higher rate for vets. The problem is that the government got smart about ten years ago and broke up "job skills" into "job sub-categories," and the result is that, with few exceptions, military skill sets do not translate well to civilian capacity. There are some skills that are highly desirable on the market, such as a jet engine mechanic would have for example, but what call is there for an infantryman, who spent the better part of his prime college years learning how to shoot people? The private security industry is still, largely, government run.

Almost all of the highly desirable skills (avionics/general aviation electronics, radar, nuclear engineering, communications, and other specialties) that translate *directly* to a civilian component are already government subsidized, i.e. these people go right back to work for the government when they get out usually. There are already programs in place that give these types of vets a leg up on non-vet competition: just show your DD-214 and you're pretty much hired. But there just simply aren't any jobs for tank drivers, artillerymen, infantry, yeoman, and a host of other specialties that have no civilian component.

The current ops tempo also stops many people from getting a degree while they're in. Support jobs, like finance, personnel, cooks, and medical, need to cert by civilian standards when they get out. Even mechanics have to attend some type of training if they go to the commercial market, because Delta Airlines doesn't put F108 engines on their aircraft, and civilian hummers don't use military HMMWV engines. And you don't get a degree just by showing up; finance troops don't get accounting degrees, personnel troops don't get business degrees, cooks don't get culinary degrees... hell, even medics and medical assistants have to recert in the civilian world.

I found the programs necessary to combat the growing trend of disproportionate unemployment. It's really too bad that wasn't reason enough to write the bill. No, it had to be attached to some other political plum, which is a damn shame, because it was a good idea in and of itself.
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Have you had a look at the new GI Bill? Thats where these guys with job skills that "don't translate" should go. The GI Bill pays for college as well as paying the equivalent of an E-5's Basic Allowance Housing. That can range from $1,000 to $2,200 in some areas.
I'm not one of the guys you are talking about whose job skills translate directly. I am a ground pounder. Guess what I'm doing when I get out? Going to college with an awesome GI Bill. If a kid is too stupid to take advantage, he needs to struggle until he figures it out.
 
apdst said:
Like a tax credit is going to cause new hiring. Companies aren't going to spend 50 grand, just to get a $3,000 tax credit.

That's nothing more than a political hat trick to ake people think that you give a ****.
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Perhaps not new hiring, but if you were going to hire someone anyway, it would be cheaper for you if that person was a vet.
 
MarineTpartier said:
Have you had a look at the new GI Bill? Thats where these guys with job skills that "don't translate" should go. The GI Bill pays for college as well as paying the equivalent of an E-5's Basic Allowance Housing. That can range from $1,000 to $2,200 in some areas.
I'm not one of the guys you are talking about whose job skills translate directly. I am a ground pounder. Guess what I'm doing when I get out? Going to college with an awesome GI Bill. If a kid is too stupid to take advantage, he needs to struggle until he figures it out.
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I've been doing that for the last year and a half. It's a pretty sweet deal.

However, this overlooks the fact that there is already a legion of people out there who got their degrees in their early twenties and already have civilian work experience. What is an employer supposed to do when looking at two resumes? "Well, Bob got his marketing degree in 2004 and went right to work for a big firm in Chigaco, while Tom here got his marketing degree three weeks ago and has zero industry experience, but he does know the effective range of a mounted Mk-19..."

Industry experience is probably more important than the piece of paper saying you got some book learnin'. And that's the main stumbling block to vets right now - a ground-pounder's industry experience has no corollary in the real world.
 
Gonzo Rodeo said:
Perhaps not new hiring, but if you were going to hire someone anyway, it would be cheaper for you if that person was a vet.
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And, by that logic, I certainly support the measure. However, it wasn't billed as a way to support vets, but rather as a way to jump start hiring; which isn't going to happen.
 
apdst said:
And, by that logic, I certainly support the measure. However, it wasn't billed as a way to support vets, but rather as a way to jump start hiring; which isn't going to happen.
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In theory, if someone were on the fence about hiring someone, even a pittance of a few thousand dollars might sway them to go ahead and pull the trigger.... but as we all know, businesses around the country were laying people off left and right. No, it would not have helped jump-start hiring in any major way. At best, a given place of business may have filled up to one position in any capacity... certainly not more than that.
 
apdst said:
"Constitutional requirement"? What would that be, pray tell?
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The one that says give welfare to the People, you know...bribe money.
 
Gonzo Rodeo said:
I've been doing that for the last year and a half. It's a pretty sweet deal.

However, this overlooks the fact that there is already a legion of people out there who got their degrees in their early twenties and already have civilian work experience. What is an employer supposed to do when looking at two resumes? "Well, Bob got his marketing degree in 2004 and went right to work for a big firm in Chigaco, while Tom here got his marketing degree three weeks ago and has zero industry experience, but he does know the effective range of a mounted Mk-19..."

Industry experience is probably more important than the piece of paper saying you got some book learnin'. And that's the main stumbling block to vets right now - a ground-pounder's industry experience has no corollary in the real world.
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Trust me, I am sympathetic. 7 years 11B and falling out of the sky like bird crap, and then got out, went to school on the GI Bill, while working part time, and got a degree. I frankly do not think they should offer anything special to the employer to hire you though. I do think that you have two advantages, that it is up to YOU to use. First is the money for education so as to improve your skill and resume. But the second is more important. Your discipline. Whether you apply it in school, or your job search, or any job you do get. Employers know that you are a proven product when it comes to work ethic and not becoming like on Occutard. You know dirty work when needed, and you know what is worth complaining about, but more importantly, when not to. You just have to show it. It is an advantage. Many employers know it. Use it.

Thanks for the service.
 
Gonzo Rodeo said:
I've been doing that for the last year and a half. It's a pretty sweet deal.

However, this overlooks the fact that there is already a legion of people out there who got their degrees in their early twenties and already have civilian work experience. What is an employer supposed to do when looking at two resumes? "Well, Bob got his marketing degree in 2004 and went right to work for a big firm in Chigaco, while Tom here got his marketing degree three weeks ago and has zero industry experience, but he does know the effective range of a mounted Mk-19..."

Industry experience is probably more important than the piece of paper saying you got some book learnin'. And that's the main stumbling block to vets right now - a ground-pounder's industry experience has no corollary in the real world.
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Some employers will value the experience in the civilian sector, some will value the military experience. Just depends on the employer. It's up to them to find the ones that value the second one more. I'm not saying we should be disadvantaged. I am saying we should he on a level playing field. With that tax cut, the gov't is playing favorites. I also come from the school of thought that politicians, whether they have an (R) or (D) by their name, do whatever they can to make more and more people depend on the gov't so they can control them. Like I said in my earlier post, they already have minorities, gays, illegal immigrants, environmentalists, the jobless, pro-choicers, etc depending upon them because they make programs that give handouts or preferential treatment to all of them. If they can vets to suck on the nipple of big gov't as well, that is a very loud group that few people will stand against. Look what happened when they threatened to alter our retirement. Everybody was yelling about that. Imagine what would happen if someone tried to take that tax cut back. The more special programs given out, the more the party that started it has to throw in the face of the party trying to abolish it. I personally think that our retirement should begin at 55 instead of when you get out after 20 or 30. Why 55? Because I think we rate 7 years earlier than a civilian. Don't see many guys getting shot at in the civilian sector while paying on their 401k lol. I would make that concession without a complaint, as long as other people were doing it too. The Senate and House retirements programs come to mind.
 
7 years 11B and falling out of the sky like bird crap, and then got out, went to school on the GI Bill, while working part time, and got a degree.
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1 enlistment 11H(a), now finishing phd. 3/505, 90-94
 
Higgins86 said:
BBC News - Obama unveils new strategy for 'leaner' US military



This is an interesting move from Obama and one that I agree with to a degree. I agree that the US should spend less money on foreign wars and try and should switch the focus to the economy my only problem is how can you cutback and then switch focus to Asia.

"Obama said in November on a visit to Canberra, Australia that the Asia-Pacific was now a top priority for the US. That speech was seen as a challenge to the rising regional power of China."
China have increased their defence budget significantly for the past 5 years and you are not going to challenge them by decreasing the size of the military and poking China is only going to make it worse. Either cut the budget and bring back the troops and concentrate on domestic policy or challenge China which is it going to be?
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The dollar amount sounds big, but when spread out over 10 years it amounts to less than a 10% reduction in military spending. It's obvious that the retarded and hypocritical foreign policy of the U.S. government is going to continue, even under a so-called liberal administration. I was hoping for greater cut backs and a reduced interventionist presence overseas, but I guess that was just a pipe dream on my part.

Our government and industry's obsession with war is going to be one factor in our downfall. Total lack of priorities. All of that money could be used to invest in infrastructure, education, health care, or any number of projects that could uplift the American people. Instead the money will be used to acquire foreign capital, and timultuous power over regions that want nothing to do with us.

Typical.
 
Eighty Deuce said:
Trust me, I am sympathetic. 7 years 11B and falling out of the sky like bird crap, and then got out, went to school on the GI Bill, while working part time, and got a degree. I frankly do not think they should offer anything special to the employer to hire you though. I do think that you have two advantages, that it is up to YOU to use. First is the money for education so as to improve your skill and resume. But the second is more important. Your discipline. Whether you apply it in school, or your job search, or any job you do get. Employers know that you are a proven product when it comes to work ethic and not becoming like on Occutard. You know dirty work when needed, and you know what is worth complaining about, but more importantly, when not to. You just have to show it. It is an advantage. Many employers know it. Use it.

Thanks for the service.
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I was in the Air Scouts as an intel puke. Thank you for doing the real work.

I'm going to break ranks for a minute and admit a dirty secret - not everyone keeps (or sometimes even had in the first place) their military bearing. Employers know this. Vets aren't necessarily a sure thing. I know you know a couple "dirt bags" from your time in. Every unit had them. Those guys usually get after after one enlistment, and end up back in the real world. They are still vets, in every sense of the word, and must be counted when talking about vets in general.

Also, the PTSD thing is real concern for many employers. Not that a vet will necessarily go to work with a weapon or kill themselves or anything like that, but it can make someone "less than motivated." They need help, and employment is part of them regaining some sense of purpose.

I took a job in a warehouse for a satellite dish installation sub-contractor who pretty much exclusively hired vets. The thing is, though, they didn't hire many of them full time. Some sneaky work around for maximizing tax breaks. We had more than our share of dirt bags... and I was one of them :) When I got out, I was clearing $60k a year after taxes, as a single E-5, with my flight and specialty and reenlistment bonus figured in. A $10/hr warehouse gig just didn't hold my attention, and I devolved into the worst type of human being I have ever been in my life. This is also a problem worth mentioning, that people in the service are paid like professionals and sometimes even treated like professionals. Now, I don't consider myself "above" certain types of work (although I would rather not work in food service ever again in my life), but vets do take a step down the ladder when they get out... unless they go back to work for the government as some type of contractor. Private industry really doesn't have an answer for that. I'm just lucky I found a gig with the county. I'm putting school on hold for the moment (I did my my Associate's degree right before I got out), and I'm going to do full-time work/new career with school on the side from now on.
 
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