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Obama Defies Congress With ‘Recess’ Picks. Could Provoke Constitutional Fight.

Re: Obama defies Congress with ‘recess’ picks

ARealConservative said:
not really. An appointment approved by congress last a heck of alot longer then till the end of the calendar year, so Congress still has quite a bit of power in regards to an in recess appointment.
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The Congress has no power w/ regard to recess appts. Yes, a duly confirmed nominee is not restricted to serving only until the end of the next full session of Congress, however, that is neither here nor there with regard to the false claim that Congress has the power to throw out recess appts (they don't), or your claim that Congress has quite a bit of power with regards to a recess appt (they don't).
 
Re: Obama defies Congress with ‘recess’ picks

ARealConservative said:
not really. An appointment approved by congress last a heck of alot longer then till the end of the calendar year, so Congress still has quite a bit of power in regards to an in recess appointment.
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jackalope is correct. Congressional approved nominations are for the full term of the appointment, recess appointments are only good until the end of that Congressional session.

I do believe there is a process that Congress can use to remove the recess appointee. Im still researching that.
 
Thunder said:
there are not enough ways I can express how much I Like this post.
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I still don't support Obama, but I can see how Democrats should be ruthless. After all, Republicans have also been ruthless, and they have been ruthless for many years. It's called fighting fire with fire. Scorched earth? Republicans are famous for that, so they are in no position to complain when Democrats do it too. The GOP reaped what it sowed. Does it make it right? No, which is why I support neither major party. It's all BS, and on both sides, but Republicans have no cause to gripe. It was they who started the war, and they should stop being crybabies just because it doesn't sometimes go their way.
 
Re: Obama defies Congress with ‘recess’ picks

jackalope said:
I agree with your last statement, but the rest is inaccurate. Filibusters stop a nomination, and the GOP said they would confirm noone to the post, b/c they don't like the agency. It has nothing to do with not wanting the nominees scrutinized, and everything to do with an end run around a lawfully created agency b/c they just don't like it.
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They can filabuster the vote and delay it, but they can not stop it. All Harry Reid has to do is call the vote, the Repubs can only hold the floor for so long until the vote comes up.
 
Re: Obama defies Congress with ‘recess’ picks

jackalope said:
The Congress has no power w/ regard to recess appts. Yes, a duly confirmed nominee is not restricted to serving only until the end of the next full session of Congress, however, that is neither here nor there with regard to the false claim that Congress has the power to throw out recess appts (they don't), or your claim that Congress has quite a bit of power with regards to a recess appt (they don't).
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the recess appointment position is automatically vacated if they don't approve it by the end of the session, but I believe they can vote to reject at any time during the session.
 
Re: Obama defies Congress with ‘recess’ picks

Imnukingfutz said:
jackalope is correct. Congressional approved nominations are for the full term of the appointment, recess appointments are only good until the end of that Congressional session.

I do believe there is a process that Congress can use to remove the recess appointee. Im still researching that.
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Maybe impeachment? It'd have to be a high bar, for cause, rather than just 'cause they don't like it, I'd think.
 
Re: Obama defies Congress with ‘recess’ picks

ARealConservative said:
the recess appointment position is automatically vacated if they don't approve it by the end of the session, but I believe they can vote to reject at any time during the session.
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It is not automatically vacated, the Constitutionally specified length of term for the recess appt expires. And no, you are not correct, they may not vote to reject a recess appt at any time during the session.
 
Re: Obama defies Congress with ‘recess’ picks

Imnukingfutz said:
They can filabuster the vote and delay it, but they can not stop it. All Harry Reid has to do is call the vote, the Repubs can only hold the floor for so long until the vote comes up.
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No, filibusters can and do stop them. Unless they can successfully overcome a filibuster, there is no up or down vote.
 
Re: Obama defies Congress with ‘recess’ picks

ok, I am wrong. the senate has no ability to eliminate the appointment, only to refuse to allow them to stay on beyond the current session.

the real problem with this activity though, is the senate is not in recess, which makes the activity taken by the president to be illegal.
 
iliveonramen said:
Bad economy, low approval ratings, Tea Party support, I don't know but they see their victory last electiong as vindication for their behavior.
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Congress has an approval rating of 9%, is that how low do the Reps. set the bar? They are working for the 9% who approve of their behavior?
 
Re: Obama defies Congress with ‘recess’ picks

OK, researched it; interesting too.

The Senate can do absolutely nothing to remove a recess appointee during that session of Congress HOWEVER, Congress can and has refused to pay a recess appointee while he or she is in that position.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL33009.pdf

Congressional Action
CRS-13

Very detailed report to Congress on this very issue.
 
danarhea said:
I still don't support Obama, but I can see how Democrats should be ruthless. After all, Republicans have also been ruthless, and they have been ruthless for many years. It's called fighting fire with fire. Scorched earth? Republicans are famous for that, so they are in no position to complain when Democrats do it too. The GOP reaped what it sowed. Does it make it right? No, which is why I support neither major party. It's all BS, and on both sides, but Republicans have no cause to gripe. It was they who started the war, and they should stop being crybabies just because it doesn't sometimes go their way.
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I'm no fan of the GOP, but they kinda do have cause to gripe. Should it come to a court case, I kinda think they'd lose, but the 'pro forma session' of Congress to block recess appts has been used in the past. Interesting that noone ever felt like challenging it before. I find the fight that Obama chose to pick over this fascinating.
 
Re: Obama defies Congress with ‘recess’ picks

jackalope said:
No, filibusters can and do stop them. Unless they can successfully overcome a filibuster, there is no up or down vote.
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and to overcome it, they force the filibustering side to hold the floor...once the floor is relinquished a vote happens. Granted, a filibuster can last weeks or months but eventually it is broken.
 
Re: Obama defies Congress with ‘recess’ picks

ARealConservative said:
ok, I am wrong. the senate has no ability to eliminate the appointment, only to refuse to allow them to stay on beyond the current session.

the real problem with this activity though, is the senate is not in recess, which makes the activity taken by the president to be illegal.
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Your last sentence is the fascinating part to me - does a fake session of Congress really count, in terms of deciding whether or not the Senate is able to confirm appointees? It's a gimmick, absolutely. But, will it hold up under scrutiny? I don't know ...
 
Re: Obama defies Congress with ‘recess’ picks

Imnukingfutz said:
and to overcome it, they force the filibustering side to hold the floor...once the floor is relinquished a vote happens. Granted, a filibuster can last weeks or months but eventually it is broken.
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Actually, no, they do not have to force the filibustering side to hold the floor. That is how it SHOULD work, but it doesn't. There is no longer any such thing as a filibuster like you may have remembered from movies, or from history books. It's all bull****, and it's the reason the Senate is broken.
 
Re: Obama defies Congress with ‘recess’ picks

Imnukingfutz said:
OK, researched it; interesting too.

The Senate can do absolutely nothing to remove a recess appointee during that session of Congress
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Not correct. They will always have the power to remove via impeachment.

The primary point I was making is recess appointments are powers vested in the president, but they are not granted the same length of duty as appointments approved in session, hence no power grab doing a recess appointment.
 
Re: Obama defies Congress with ‘recess’ picks

jackalope said:
Your last sentence is the fascinating part to me - does a fake session of Congress really count, in terms of deciding whether or not the Senate is able to confirm appointees? It's a gimmick, absolutely. But, will it hold up under scrutiny? I don't know ...
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sadly, this is the government we deserve
 
jackalope said:
I'm no fan of the GOP, but they kinda do have cause to gripe. Should it come to a court case, I kinda think they'd lose, but the 'pro forma session' of Congress to block recess appts has been used in the past. Interesting that noone ever felt like challenging it before. I find the fight that Obama chose to pick over this fascinating.
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Here's the key. There was NO pro-forma session that day.
 
danarhea said:
Here's the key. There was NO pro-forma session that day.
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I think there was, dan. They're gaveling in and out every three days, or something like that.
 
Its very simple: the GOP is playing games to prevent recess appointments.

Obama simply played a better hand, and now the GOP is crying cause they lost the game.
 
Thunder said:
Its very simple: the GOP is playing games to prevent recess appointments.

Obama simply played a better hand, and now the GOP is crying cause they lost the game.
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Yes, picking a fight with Congress when they're at historical low approval levels is kinda a win win situation for him. And the fact that it's a fight over obstruction makes it even better, from Obama's pov, I'd think.
 
Re: Obama defies Congress with ‘recess’ picks

here is the best take i have found on the matter of recess appointments:
http://www.senate.gov/CRSReports/crs-publish.cfm?pid='0DP+P\W; P

it would seem harry reid initiated a process to impair bush's opportunity to effect recess appointments which the republicans have now turned against Obama
will be interesting how this will play our. my speculation is that Obama is going to have to ask for forgiveness instead of permission
his recess appointments may very possibly be found unConstitutional
 
Re: Obama defies Congress with ‘recess’ picks

Imnukingfutz said:
OK, researched it; interesting too.

The Senate can do absolutely nothing to remove a recess appointee during that session of Congress HOWEVER, Congress can and has refused to pay a recess appointee while he or she is in that position.

Congressional Action
CRS-13

Very detailed report to Congress on this very issue.
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"Republicans had attempted to block the president from installing nominees they opposed over the long break by holding “pro forma” sessions over the holidays, in which members of both chambers — usually those who live in states close to the Capitol — gavel in for minutes or even seconds before gaveling out to try to meet the definition of holding a Congressional meeting. Senate Democrats had taken similar steps to block President George W. Bush from making what are known as recess appointments, which can last up to two years. Until Wednesday, the tactic had prevented two administrations from putting their choices in place without Senate confirmation.

The action by Mr. Obama immediately sparked questions of what constitutes an actual Congressional recess, the legality of Mr. Obama’s move and the future of the Congressional confirmation process."

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/05/u...med-consumer-chief-in-recess-appointment.html





Think the bigger issue is getting missed on this particular Obama appointment. The "pro forma" sessions have been recognized by both parties as constituting a valid active Senate session. So the current outstanding question is whether or not the senate was legally in recess when Obama made the recess appointment.

Likilhood is that a court will need to resolve the final conclusion...
 
Thunder said:
Its very simple: the GOP is playing games to prevent recess appointments.
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disagree
the republicans are playing the same game begun by one harry ass reid, senate leader

Obama simply played a better hand, and now the GOP is crying cause they lost the game.
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Obama will have to use his superior knowledge of the Constitution to defend his actions; i centainly cannot see where the legitimate bases for these "recess" appointments exist
here is what i have read to come up with my lay determination:
http://www.senate.gov/CRSReports/crs-publish.cfm?pid='0DP+P\W; P
 
Re: Obama defies Congress with ‘recess’ picks

Cole said:
Think the bigger issue is getting missed on this particular Obama appointment. The "pro forma" sessions have been recognized by both parties as constituting a valid active Senate session. So the current outstanding question is whether or not the senate was legally in recess when Obama made the recess appointment.
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And the even bigger issue is why the Senate can't just take a damn vote on appointees instead of either opposing everyone Obama sends over (this is his second try with the consumer agency) or putting holds on nominees as bargaining chips on sometimes completely unrelated issues. If the Senate would at least hold votes, let alone actually confirm some of these people, the president wouldn't have to do all this recess appointing stuff just to keep the government functioning.
 
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