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Obama Defies Congress With ‘Recess’ Picks. Could Provoke Constitutional Fight.

Re: Obama defies Congress with ‘recess’ picks

The Senate has the power to throw out recess appointments? Where do they derive this power from?

(What the hell are you doing over here, bunny butt....??)
 
I'm pretty sure that other Presidents have made appointments the opposition didn't like. My point is that they think they can get away with these "parlor tricks" because in their eyes, Obama is not white enough to be President. It is part of a pattern that has been going on since his 1st State of the Union address. I am sick of it and someone needs to call them on it.

Yes, but we haven't had a polarized congress like this before. Look I gave you the sane and logical reasons. If you want to believe in the bat-sh*t crazy excuse of "It's because he's black", then be my guest. The rest of us will take a sane and logical approach to this.
 
I would like to point out....the last time we had a Congress this Conservative with a Liberal President they impeached him. Just sayin, if anything the Conservatives in this country have went from respectable to batshi* crazy. I don't think it's race.

You do have a point there, but Clinton made recess appointments. But why do they think they can push Obama around even more than him?
 
Eighty Deuce said:
Obama is the only President on the chart that had a super-majority in the Senate for any time at all. And he had it for two years.

Eighty Deuce said:
Do you realize that Obama had 60 Democrats in the Senate in his first two years ? LOL ......... if he didn't get an appointment then, it was Dems blocking .... sheeeesh

Eighty Deuce said:
Same to you. Obama had a super majority in the Senate for his first two years. You get your appointments that way. You also get fiasco's like Obamacare.

Uh, no he didn't.

...and you talk of educating someone...:naughty
 
Re: Obama defies Congress with ‘recess’ picks

Believe the jury is still out on that one. Am guessing it will be the courts who decide if Obama has such rights.....


Woulda recognized your speech patterns anywhere :D




(What the hell are you doing over here, bunny butt....??)


Even without the bunny butt :lol: .... prolly same thing you are ;)
 
Again, do you not understand the effect of a super-majority in the Senate ?

Yes, that's why I posted the graph. But first let's be clear: Democrats do not presently have a super majority and haven't had one since Teddy Kennedy was healthy enough to actually appear on the Senate floor.

That said, even if you have a super majority it doesn't allow the President to avoid recess appointments unless he has 100% support from every member of his party, which is anything but automatic.
 
AdamT said:
This is a blatant attempt to prevent the lawfully passed law from coming into effect and that is a clear abuse of their advise and consent authority.

Exactly!! Quite similar to the unprecedented act of holding the raising the debt ceiling hostage for other demands (rather than the usual 'up or down'...funny how the cons have lost that chant)
 
Yes, that's why I posted the graph. But first let's be clear: Democrats do not presently have a super majority and haven't had one since Teddy Kennedy was healthy enough to actually appear on the Senate floor.

That said, even if you have a super majority it doesn't allow the President to avoid recess appointments unless he has 100% support from every member of his party, which is anything but automatic.

True, but the relative fact is that Obama had the needed majority, or more than close enough to it such that he only had to peal a RINO or two, and he has less filibusters to contend with, and/or more opportunity to invoke cloture. This is the primary factor in the graph fluctuations noted.
 
You do have a point there, but Clinton made recess appointments. But why do they think they can push Obama around even more than him?

Bad economy, low approval ratings, Tea Party support, I don't know but they see their victory last electiong as vindication for their behavior.
 
True, but the relative fact is that Obama had the needed majority, or more than close enough to it such that he only had to peal a RINO or two, and he has less filibusters to contend with, and/or more opportunity to invoke cloture. This is the primary factor in the graph fluctuations noted.

Not sure what you're saying. He's had about 100% more filibusters to contend with than the next closest president. He's also had to contend with a highly polarized minority that is generally more concerned with defeating him than it is with helping the country. Partisanship has always been a factor in our system, but it's far more prevalent today than it has been in my memory.
 
Not sure what you're saying. He's had about 100% more filibusters to contend with than the next closest president. He's also had to contend with a highly polarized minority that is generally more concerned with defeating him than it is with helping the country. Partisanship has always been a factor in our system, but it's far more prevalent today than it has been in my memory.

When one party is in a greater minority, that meaning they have less power with straight up-or-down votes, you will see them resort to more procedural opportunities to gain influence. At the same time, the majority is also in a position to halt such procedures. Further, if the majority, in its zeal, attempts to railroad the minority too much, you will see more push-back by any means available.

With their majorities, it is the opinion of many that the Dems ran roughshod over the minority quite a bit. I also do not care to get into a "yes they did, no they didn't" tit for tat, as we've already had enough 'because I say so" in this thread.

In the end, IMMHO, we are still a country, and a Government, of laws, and that was violated with this move. What we see in this thread, by the uninformed, is this demand to "show me the Law broken". What those folks fail to grasp is that at the highest levels of government, there are not simple statutes that govern. On issues such as Executive privilege, advise and consent, etc., what the highest levels have done is create their own in-House rules, based on the allowances provided by the Constitution, and which hope to maintain the template for functional government within contentious politics. The violation of those rules is what is known as "going nuclear", that is to blow them up.

Obama clearly went nuclear, solely to gain a short-term political advantage. I believe that you understand that he did something never done before. He has trashed the system solely for his own hopeful political gain. To those who see this as a "win", its a pyrrhic victory. Government just got more feckless and reckless.
 
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Re: Obama defies Congress with ‘recess’ picks

The Senate has the power to throw out recess appointments? Where do they derive this power from?

From the constitution, just as the president derives the power to make appointments without congressional approval.

The in recess appointments is a stipulation that prevents government shut down, it does not eliminate the power of congress to approve appointments.
 
Obama clearly went nuclear, solely to gain a short-term political advantage. I believe that you understand that he did something never done before. He has trashed the system solely for his own hopeful political gain. To those who see this as a "win", its a pyrrhic victory. Government just got more feckless and reckless.

I'm sorry but when you have a system where you claim the senate is in session with only one person, one gavel, and 40 seconds, that system NEEDS to be trashed. My hope is that this will go to the courts and within that process there will be CLEARLY defined rules of how a senate can be considered "in session".

See I don't look at this as a victory for Obama, I look at this as a victory to prevent parlor tricks from happening and if a senate wants to be "in session" they will have to have clearly defined rules to be "in session" . No more parlor tricks.
 
When one party is in a greater minority, that meaning they have less power with straight up-or-down votes, you will see them resort to more procedural opportunities to gain influence. At the same time, the majority is also in a position to halt such procedures. Further, if the majority, in its zeal, attempts to railroad the minority too much, you will see more push-back by any means available.

With their majorities, it is the opinion of many that the Dems ran roughshod over the minority quite a bit. I also do not care to get into a "yes they did, no they didn't" tit for tat, as we've already had enough 'because I say so" in this thread.

In the end, IMMHO, we are still a country, and a Government, of laws, and that was violated with this move. What we see in this thread, by the uninformed, is this demand to "show me the Law broken". What those folks fail to grasp is that at the highest levels of government, there are not simple statutes that govern. On issues such as Executive privilege, advise and consent, etc., what the highest levels have done is create their own in-House rules, based on the allowances provided by the Constitution, and which hope to maintain the template for functional government within contentious politics. The violation of those rules is what is known as "going nuclear", that is to blow them up.

Obama clearly went nuclear, solely to gain a short-term political advantage. I believe that you understand that he did something never done before. He has trashed the system solely for his own hopeful political gain. To those who see this as a "win", its a pyrrhic victory. Government just got more feckless and reckless.

He did something that was unusual, but not unprecedented, and he did it in response to absolutely unprecedented resistance that was raised for an improper purpose. I applaud him for it. And you make the typical conservative assumption that it was done "for political purposes." Completely lost -- absolutely not present -- in your analysis, is the fact that Republicans have been blocking the creation of a CONSUMER PROTECTION agency that is badly needed, and that was devised in response to a major flaw in our financial system that helped bring about the worse recession since WWII. Obama's purpose is to help Americans. The Republicans' interest is to defeat Obama, period.
 
He did something that was unusual, but not unprecedented, and he did it in response to absolutely unprecedented resistance that was raised for an improper purpose. I applaud him for it. And you make the typical conservative assumption that it was done "for political purposes." Completely lost -- absolutely not present -- in your analysis, is the fact that Republicans have been blocking the creation of a CONSUMER PROTECTION agency that is badly needed, and that was devised in response to a major flaw in our financial system that helped bring about the worse recession since WWII. Obama's purpose is to help Americans. The Republicans' interest is to defeat Obama, period.

It is unprecedented. Show me otherwise. There have been numerous links in this thread all explaining exactly what precedent was, and was not.

If you do not want to agree with how I see it, then fine. But again, links were provided, some by me, that explain that opinion that Obama acted on politics, while trashing principle. Agree or disagree all you want, it is you who have felt that it is OK to violate the prinicple and protocols, to go "nuclear", in order to achieve a political end. Obama did not have the political clout to work within the normal process. So he trashed it. Sorry, but that is not a tactic that I have ever endorsed, by any President, or Legislator, in any party.
 
Re: Obama defies Congress with ‘recess’ picks

Woulda recognized your speech patterns anywhere :D







Even without the bunny butt :lol: .... prolly same thing you are ;)

I think the forearms on your jackeloupe are too short. When you track them, they leave front footprints. Hard to bring down. Shoot them with a .22 cal and they keep right on truckin'. Not a lot of them here in NY. The yeti feed on them. Keeps the infestation to a minimum. Most o' the people here, think Republicants, are scared crapless of them, but they do loves Sarah Palin, go figure.
 
Re: Obama defies Congress with ‘recess’ picks

From the constitution, just as the president derives the power to make appointments without congressional approval.

The in recess appointments is a stipulation that prevents government shut down, it does not eliminate the power of congress to approve appointments.


Sorry, you're mistaken. Recess appts are not subject to confirmation. They are good until the end of the next full session of Congress, and then expire, unless the Pres nominates them to continue in the post, and the Senate confirms.
 
Re: Obama defies Congress with ‘recess’ picks

I think the forearms on your jackeloupe are too short. When you track them, they leave front footprints. Hard to bring down. Shoot them with a .22 cal and they keep right on truckin'. Not a lot of them here in NY. The yeti feed on them. Keeps the infestation to a minimum. Most o' the people here, think Republicants, are scared crapless of them, but they do loves Sarah Palin, go figure.


:lol: :cool:
 
It is unprecedented. Show me otherwise. There have been numerous links in this thread all explaining exactly what precedent was, and was not.

If you do not want to agree with how I see it, then fine. But again, links were provided, some by me, that explain that opinion that Obama acted on politics, while trashing principle. Agree or disagree all you want, it is you who have felt that it is OK to violate the prinicple and protocols, to go "nuclear", in order to achieve a political end. Obama did not have the political clout to work within the normal process. So he trashed it. Sorry, but that is not a tactic that I have ever endorsed, by any President, or Legislator, in any party.

Constitutionally, Obama did nothing illegal. Was it kosher? Nope. He violated a long-standing gentleman's agreement, but when the other side are not being gentlemen, I don't see how you should also be. The GOP took off the gloves the minutes Obama took office. Now Obama has a backbone, and Republicans are crying, just like the schoolyard bully who goes crying home to mommy after someone finally fights back and bloodies his nose.
 
Re: Obama defies Congress with ‘recess’ picks

Even though recess appointments are specifically mentioned in the constitution?

recess appointment is specifically for those times when Congress can not con-vein or in the case of emergency (as I listed before) It was not intended to be used as an end around Congress.

Actually it says “The President shall have Power to fill up all Vacancies that may happen during the Recess of the Senate" Those positions did not happen during the recess, they were vacant long before the Senate recessed.
 
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Constitutionally, Obama did nothing illegal. Was it kosher? Nope. He violated a long-standing gentleman's agreement, but when the other side are not being gentlemen, I don't see how you should also be. The GOP took off the gloves the minutes Obama took office. Now Obama has a backbone, and Republicans are crying, just like the schoolyard bully who goes crying home to mommy after someone finally fights back and bloodies his nose.

there are not enough ways I can express how much I Like this post.
 
Re: Obama defies Congress with ‘recess’ picks

its not a power grab, when the GOP refuses to allow the appointment of ANYONE to head an agency.

when such extreme circumstances exist, extreme solutions are needed.

They cant stop anyone from being appointed, they are the minority party in the Senate. They cant even hold up the nomination in committee...they dont chair it.

51 votes gets the nomination and with Biden to break any tie, they are as good as confirmed.

Personally, in this instance, I think that this administration just doesnt want these people scrutinized over.

But most of all, I dont like recess appointments if it is not an emergency situation.
 
Re: Obama defies Congress with ‘recess’ picks

Sorry, you're mistaken. Recess appts are not subject to confirmation. They are good until the end of the next full session of Congress, and then expire, unless the Pres nominates them to continue in the post, and the Senate confirms.

not really. An appointment approved by congress last a heck of alot longer then till the end of the calendar year, so Congress still has quite a bit of power in regards to an in recess appointment.
 
True, but the relative fact is that Obama had the needed majority, or more than close enough to it such that he only had to peal a RINO or two, and he has less filibusters to contend with, and/or more opportunity to invoke cloture. This is the primary factor in the graph fluctuations noted.

You continue to show your ignorance. There was a period of 4 months where the Dems had 58 votes plus 2 independents and Congress was only in session for 3 weeks of that. Obama has had a RECORD high number of filibusters against his legislation not less as you continue to inaccurately state.
Actually the DEMS NEVER had a super majority with only 58 Democrat votes, Lieberman, one of the Independents supposedly part of the Dems votes, was a speaker at the Republican Convention and supported McCain for Pres.!
 
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Re: Obama defies Congress with ‘recess’ picks

They cant stop anyone from being appointed, they are the minority party in the Senate. They cant even hold up the nomination in committee...they dont chair it.

51 votes gets the nomination and with Biden to break any tie, they are as good as confirmed.

Personally, in this instance, I think that this administration just doesnt want these people scrutinized over.

But most of all, I dont like recess appointments if it is not an emergency situation.


I agree with your last statement, but the rest is inaccurate. Filibusters stop a nomination, and the GOP said they would confirm noone to the post, b/c they don't like the agency. It has nothing to do with not wanting the nominees scrutinized, and everything to do with an end run around a lawfully created agency b/c they just don't like it.
 
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