• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provisions...

Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

Your Star said:
The worst thing Obama has done. He should have vetoed this, might lose my vote.
Click to expand...

Me too. I mean, he really had to **** up to lose my vote and he has really ****ed up. I'm not sure what to do now.
 
Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

whysoserious said:
Me too. I mean, he really had to **** up to lose my vote and he has really ****ed up. I'm not sure what to do now.
Click to expand...

Well...in a two party system there's not much choice....if Obama voters don't show up to vote your'e basically voting in a Republican.
 
Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

whysoserious said:
Me too. I mean, he really had to **** up to lose my vote and he has really ****ed up. I'm not sure what to do now.
Click to expand...

staying at home and sleeping is always a choice.
 
Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

iliveonramen said:
Well...in a two party system there's not much choice....if Obama voters don't show up to vote your'e basically voting in a Republican.
Click to expand...

Actually, no you're not. "Basically voting in a Republican" would be like if you voted Nader instead of Gore.
 
Last edited:
Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

whysoserious said:
Me too. I mean, he really had to **** up to lose my vote and he has really ****ed up. I'm not sure what to do now.
Click to expand...
So you'd rather give Santorum a leg up?
 
Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

ThePlayDrive said:
So you'd rather give Santorum a leg up?
Click to expand...

If it's Romney vs. Obama, I'm basically staying home. If it's Santorum/Paul/Gingrich vs. Obama, I'm voting for Obama.
 
Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

ThePlayDrive said:
So you'd rather give Santorum a leg up?
Click to expand...

We will ahve to choose between the lesser of two evils, but Obama has not performed anywhere near as well as hoped for. This cannot be ignored. If there was a republican candidate I could vote for, I would vote republican. Paul is the closest, but he is not likely to win.
 
Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

Boo Radley said:
We will ahve to choose between the lesser of two evils, but Obama has not performed anywhere near as well as hoped for. This cannot be ignored. If there was a republican candidate I could vote for, I would vote republican. Paul is the closest, but he is not likely to win.
Click to expand...

If Paul doesn't win (and he won't) I'll be voting some third party. There will be someone to vote for. I did it in 2008 and I haven't regretted my vote.
 
Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

1Perry said:
If Paul doesn't win (and he won't) I'll be voting some third party. There will be someone to vote for. I did it in 2008 and I haven't regretted my vote.
Click to expand...

Still, for me, depends on who the republicans nominate. I could not risk a Santorum win, for example.
 
Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

Boo Radley said:
Still, for me, depends on who the republicans nominate. I could not risk a Santorum win, for example.
Click to expand...

I understand that. I'm not going to knock anyone for that. It's why I voted for Bush in 2000.
 
Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

Boo Radley said:
We will ahve to choose between the lesser of two evils, but Obama has not performed anywhere near as well as hoped for. This cannot be ignored. If there was a republican candidate I could vote for, I would vote republican. Paul is the closest, but he is not likely to win.
Click to expand...
Obama didn't perform as well as expected, no. However, he did not perform horribly nor did he harm the country, at least not even near the level of the hyperbole many liberals seem to be suggesting. The idea that people would stay home and increase the potential of someone like Santorum or even Romney (who knows what the hell he'll even do in office) doesn't make much sense to me.

We're talking about choosing who might have to appoint Supreme Court justices, who is going to advance gay rights, who is going cut off or extend programs to people who still haven't found jobs yet. This is far too serious for me to sit at home because Obama didn't push harder on the healthcare bill or reduce unemployment to 4%.
 
Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

ThePlayDrive said:
Obama didn't perform as well as expected, no. However, he did not perform horribly nor did he harm the country, at least not even near the level of the hyperbole many liberals seem to be suggesting. The idea that people would stay home and increase the potential of someone like Santorum or even Romney (who knows what the hell he'll even do in office) doesn't make much sense to me.

We're talking about choosing who might have to appoint Supreme Court justices, who is going to advance gay rights, who is going cut off or extend programs to people who still haven't found jobs yet. This is far too serious for me to sit at home because Obama didn't push harder on the healthcare bill or reduce unemployment to 4%.
Click to expand...

I would agree with that up until he sgned this bill. Very poor judgment here, and now we have to hope the courts do their job. This was a major blow to him IMHO, and have expressed my disappointment to him at his website. Not that that will change anything. But if there was a valid alternative, I would vote for it.
 
Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

danarhea said:
1) First of all, and most obvious, Obama blasted Bush for using signing statements, and now here he is, using one.
Click to expand...

Fair point.

2) An Obama signing statement doesn't mean a thing, once Obama leaves office. A different president could negate it in a New York minute.
Click to expand...

The bill expires before his term ends though.

3) Just because Democrats in Congress didn't have the backbone to challenge Bush on his signing statements doesn't mean that Congressional Republicans won't have the backbone too.
Click to expand...

Like they challenged Bush's? Spare me the indignation.

Here is the deal, folks. The Obama administration has let loose upon the land a law that is just as Odious as the Alien and Sedition Acts, which were signed into law by John Adams. The law is unconstitutional. Period. But where is the Democratic outcry in Congress..... You know, the kind of outcry we heard almost every day during Bush's reign? I only hear Democratic hypocrisy, cloaked in silence.
Click to expand...

Except last time I looked directly that the bill language, the bill had been fixed.

Now, maybe the ACLU is on to something additional in the bill that I missed. I don't know. But I'm not sure they have this right.
 
Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

Boo Radley said:
We will [ha]ve to choose between the lesser of two evils, but Obama has not performed anywhere near as well as hoped for. This cannot be ignored. If there was a republican candidate I could vote for, I would vote republican. Paul is the closest, but he is not likely to win.
Click to expand...

The lesser of two evils is still evil.

1Perry said:
If Paul doesn't win (and he won't) I'll be voting some third party. There will be someone to vote for. I did it in 2008 and I haven't regretted my vote.
Click to expand...

If you are looking for third parties, some of the ones running a Presidential candidate are Green Party, Justice Party, Reform Party, and the Socialist Party. Other parties can be found here (United States presidential election, 2012 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).

Edit:


misterman said:
Except last time I looked directly that the bill language, the bill had been fixed.

Now, maybe the ACLU is on to something additional in the bill that I missed. I don't know. But I'm not sure they have this right.
Click to expand...

The bill still allows for the indefinite detention of US citizens on the President's whim.

Mr. Invisible said:
This foolishness again boya? I clearly explained that this act does in fact allow for the indefinite detention of US citizens.

Mr. Invisible said:
Actually, that's not true at all. Here's the thing, this bill does not grant the President any new powers, rather, it solidifies and codifies old ones into law. Under the Patriot Act people were detained indefinitely (Imprisoned by the Patriot Act -- In These Times) (GrepLaw | Photographer Arrested "Under Patriot Act") and the 2006 Military Commissions Act gives the President the power to label protesters unlawful enemy combatants (JURIST - Hotline: Challenging the Military Commissions Act). The definition of unlawful enemy combatants is so vague to the point where it can include US citizens.
Click to expand...

Edit 2: John Turley who (GW Law -- Faculty Directory)
  • Is the second most cited law professor in the country
  • Has worked as both the CBS and NBC legal analyst during national controversies
  • Ranks 38th in the top 100 most cited ‘public intellectuals’ in a recent study by a well-known judge
  • Is one of the top 10 lawyers handling military cases
  • Has served as a consultant on homeland security and constitutional issues
  • Is a frequent witness before the House and Senate on constitutional and statutory issues
agrees that this law allows for the indefinite detention of US citizens (Final Curtain: Obama Signs Indefinite Detention of Citizens Into Law As Final Act of 2011 « JONATHAN TURLEY)
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

Mr. Invisible said:
The lesser of two evils is still evil.
Click to expand...

True enough, But I can't make a choice that isn't there.
 
Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

Boo Radley said:
True enough, But I can't make a choice that isn't there.
Click to expand...

Yes you can, vote third party :mrgreen:
 
Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

Mr. Invisible said:
If you are looking for third parties, some of the ones running a Presidential candidate are Green Party, Justice Party, Reform Party, and the Socialist Party. Other parties can be found here (United States presidential election, 2012 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).
Click to expand...

Thanks, not that it will matter (LOL) but I appreciate the link. I haven't really bothered checking out third parties yet but looks like I now have no excuse. :D
 
Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

Mr. Invisible said:
Yes you can, vote third party :mrgreen:
Click to expand...

Sure, that's a possibility. But if the risk is a Santorum presidency, I'm not prepared to take that risk. And I haven't seen much from the thrid parties to inspire me.
 
Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

O.K., so I'm wondering where I can get a Vermin Supreme bumper sticker and yard sign?

Vermin Supreme are all around.
 
Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

1Perry said:
It's been posted many times.

Obama Admin Pushed for Indefinite Detention Provision
Click to expand...
Do you have a hard news source? Right wing blogs are about as reliable on Obama as Al Jazeera is on Israel...

This is what Obama had to say:
"I want to clarify that my administration will not authorize the indefinite military detention without trial of American citizens," Obama said in a statement Saturday. "Indeed, I believe that doing so would break with our most important traditions and values as a nation."
Obama signs defense bill 'with reservations' - CNN
Obama Signs Defense Bill Despite 'Reservations' | Fox News
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/01/us/politics/obama-signs-military-spending-bill.html?_r=1
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom