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Muslims clash with China police who destroyed mosque

but we kinda HAVE to blame you since you were the one that insisted on making this a wing thing.

I didn't make it a wing thing. It already was. I just observed it.

Lots of righties hate Muslims. Lots of righties hate communists. Two observations.

I would think conservatives would just sit back and watch the show, while many kneejerk liberals will have a real difficult time figuring out which side to trip over themselves to defend them...geeez...what is a kneejerk liberal left winger to do...support the...how did you (I mean that 'other' idiot that posted under your name) put it...oh yeah...mooooslems...or support communists...what to do...what to do...

See, now you're getting into it!

As for me, I basically support religious freedom and hate commies (or any authoritarians), so that's easy. Sure is easier for me than rightwingers, or some lefties I guess.

How about you?
 
It is better to listen to what the Islamic leaders themselves are saying rather than making false claims about them being "moderate" or "progressive".

There are a billion Muslims in the world. Some are decent, progressive, modern, non-violent, tolerant and welcoming. Some are vicious, violent, hard-line and intolerant.

Why is that so hard a concept?
 
Canada has a similar law. Unfortunate.

That's right! And a few Muslims have tied up the Canadian courts systems for many months with absurd accusations, all paid for by Canadian taxpayers, while the defendants had to pay their own lawyers. Canadians are hoping this law, Section 13 of the HRA, will change under this present government.

These actions by a few certainly didn't enhance the reputation of Muslims in Canada
 
There are a billion Muslims in the world. Some are decent, progressive, modern, non-violent, tolerant and welcoming. Some are vicious, violent, hard-line and intolerant.

Why is that so hard a concept?

And who claimed this was a "hard concept"? Are you certain your response should be directed to me?
 
And who claimed this was a "hard concept"? Are you certain your response should be directed to me?

It wasn't necessarily directed at you, just in general. You decide whether it needed to be.
 
I didn't make it a wing thing. It already was. I just observed it.

Lots of righties hate Muslims. Lots of righties hate communists. Two observations.



See, now you're getting into it!

As for me, I basically support religious freedom and hate commies (or any authoritarians), so that's easy. Sure is easier for me than rightwingers, or some lefties I guess.

How about you?
Lots of lefties love 'moooslims'. Lots of lefties love communists. GOD this is a fun game...

For me? I dont hate Muslims. I have worked next to and bled with Muslims in many Muslim countries for over 4 years. I recognize their are extremists and fundamentalists and they are hell bent on slaughtering any and everyone that not only isnt a Muslim but that isnt their SECT of Muslim...just like there are (a majority of) great and devoted Muslims who abhor violence. Im sure the majority of Chinese people are good folk. I recognize oppressive government behavior in China...Korea...and sometimes 9gasp) here int he US. I think its pretty foolish to make statements like ______ wingers are sure going to have a hard time deciding who to hate more. You apparently thought that was a good idea.
 
I think its pretty foolish to make statements like ______ wingers are sure going to have a hard time deciding who to hate more. You apparently thought that was a good idea.

No, actually, I don't. I'm just making a point about how you hear so much of that crap about "liberals" all the time.

I now officially withdraw the comment.
 
"conservatives", liberals" -- the the vast majority of those who describe themselves as one or the other fail miserably when it comes to addressing Islam. With so many supposed "liberals" offering little but knee jerk defense of this ultra conservative religion and so many conservatives assailing it for its lack of liberalism, one would almost think the terms are morphing into the opposite of their actual meanings.
 
It wasn't necessarily directed at you, just in general. You decide whether it needed to be.

If it wasn't directed at m then don't use my name. If it was directed at me then use the boxed quote.

If you need help ask the moderators.
 
they are not muslim,they are islamist,it must be easy to speak without any knowledge ..........
 
"conservatives", liberals" -- the the vast majority of those who describe themselves as one or the other fail miserably when it comes to addressing Islam. With so many supposed "liberals" offering little but knee jerk defense of this ultra conservative religion and so many conservatives assailing it for its lack of liberalism, one would almost think the terms are morphing into the opposite of their actual meanings.

But doesn't being "Conservative"', at least in the democracies', mean the traditional respect for the law and the attached human rights codes? Why shouldn't Islam be assailed by Conservatives for its lack of Liberalism? '

There is a vast middle ground and that seems to be where the Conservative point of view lies.
 
If it wasn't directed at m then don't use my name. If it was directed at me then use the boxed quote.

It was directed at your comment, in view of all.
 
But doesn't being "Conservative"', at least in the democracies', mean the traditional respect for the law and the attached human rights codes? Why shouldn't Islam be assailed by Conservatives for its lack of Liberalism? '

There is a vast middle ground and that seems to be where the Conservative point of view lies.

Believe me, Grant -- since "conservatives" are about the only ones in our liberal, western societies who do take Islam to task for it's illiberal attitudes, I would much rather hang with them during such discussions.

It's one paradox few people understand since the only way to uphold liberalism in liberal societies is to conserve it.
 
Believe me, Grant -- since "conservatives" are about the only ones in our liberal, western societies who do take Islam to task for it's illiberal attitudes, I would much rather hang with them during such discussions.

It's one paradox few people understand since the only way to uphold liberalism in liberal societies is to conserve it.

Sure, and that's great.

We just have to remember that it's counterproductive to that goal to attack all Muslims for the crimes of some. Some critics do that way too often. Muslims are often the victims of these illiberal acts too, and plenty more oppose them.
 
Believe me, Grant -- since "conservatives" are about the only ones in our liberal, western societies who do take Islam to task for it's illiberal attitudes, I would much rather hang with them during such discussions.

It's one paradox few people understand since the only way to uphold liberalism in liberal societies is to conserve it.

Yes, I'm familiar with your views, always respect them, and see the irony in the "liberal" position.

The 'liberals'' have come to stand for nothing but fear and appeasement.
 
Sure, and that's great.

We just have to remember that it's counterproductive to that goal to attack all Muslims for the crimes of some. Some critics do that way too often. Muslims are often the victims of these illiberal acts too, and plenty more oppose them.

You mean that not all Muslims are terrorists?

So your point is that some Muslims are terrorists, some would want to spread their religion a bit too aggressively, would censor media, honour kill, treat women like second class citizens, cheer at the public hanging of Gays, call for the murder of Christians and Jews, and so on?

It's probably safe to assume that those are the Muslims people would be referring to.
 
But it had nothing to do with my comment.

Your comment was:

It is better to listen to what the Islamic leaders themselves are saying rather than making false claims about them being "moderate" or "progressive".

You were lumping all Muslims together. As usual.
 
You mean that not all Muslims are terrorists?

So your point is that some Muslims are terrorists, some would want to spread their religion a bit too aggressively, would censor media, honour kill, treat women like second class citizens, cheer at the public hanging of Gays, call for the murder of Christians and Jews, and so on?

It's probably safe to assume that those are the Muslims people would be referring to.

No, it's not safe to say that. Plenty of people don't say it that way, and many actually mean all Muslims.
 
That was my experience in America, but not in other countries.

My experience in China, Taiwan, and Indonesia have always been rather positive. I have been invited into mosques (but with the exception of the one in China, never entered one) and had really good conversations -- including along comparative religion lines between Islam and Catholicism -- with many Islamic teachers...
 
Sure they are. Singapore was essentially KICKED out of the Malaysian Federation because it was too Chinese according to the Malaysian Tunku...

That's the name of the game - politics and dirty politics everywhere.
 
My experience in China, Taiwan, and Indonesia have always been rather positive. I have been invited into mosques (but with the exception of the one in China, never entered one) and had really good conversations -- including along comparative religion lines between Islam and Catholicism -- with many Islamic teachers...

Hey friend, I haven't seen you in awhile, how have you been?
 
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