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Fisker Recalling 239 Karma Plug-In Hybrids for Fire Hazard

AdamT said:
There are hundreds of thousands of hybrids on the roads running without problems.
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Hundreds of thousands 'plug-in hybrids' on the road? Please expound on this.
 
Dickieboy said:
Hundreds of thousands 'plug-in hybrids' on the road? Please expound on this.
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You already expanded on what I wrote by inserting "plug-in".

Do you think that battery charging is a new technology?
 
AdamT said:
You already expanded on what I wrote by inserting "plug-in".

Do you think that battery charging is a new technology?
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Thank you for that. It was you who made the global statement 'hundreds of thousands of hybrids on the roads running without problems' but the article and subject of the OP is 'plug-in' hybrids. Do you not see this as an apples/oranges comparison? To my knowledge the 'hundreds of thousands' you speak of utilize gasoline somewhat but I could be wrong.
 
Dickieboy said:
Thank you for that. It was you who made the global statement 'hundreds of thousands of hybrids on the roads running without problems' but the article and subject of the OP is 'plug-in' hybrids. Do you not see this as an apples/oranges comparison? To my knowledge the 'hundreds of thousands' you speak of utilize gasoline somewhat but I could be wrong.
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The Fisker Karma also uses gasoline somewhat -- hence the term "hybrid". The plug-in component simply allows the batteries to be charged from an outlet in addition to being charged from braking and from the gasoline engine. Basically it's the same charging technology that's been used in boats for decades. In this case the recall had to do with an improperly placed hose clamp. Not exactly a cutting edge component.
 
Actually, they have the old GM plant in Milford, DE, which used to build the Solstace (may it rest in peace). They expect to be building cars there in a year or two. Actually, I was pleased to see that they had sold any cars at all. I do know that there is a dealer in Fairfax, VA.
 
Dickieboy said:
Thank you for that. It was you who made the global statement 'hundreds of thousands of hybrids on the roads running without problems' but the article and subject of the OP is 'plug-in' hybrids. Do you not see this as an apples/oranges comparison? To my knowledge the 'hundreds of thousands' you speak of utilize gasoline somewhat but I could be wrong.
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Any car that is a "hybrid" uses both gas and electric. Currently, there are over 3 million hybrids sold in the world. 2.0 million in the US as of May 2011.
Hybrid electric vehicle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
More than 3 million hybrid electric vehicles have been sold around the world by July 2010, led by the United States with almost 1.8 million units,[92] followed by Japan with more than 1 million units[93][94] and Europe with more than 200 thousand.[7][89] By December 2010, the top seller in the U.S. was the Toyota Prius, with cumulative sales of 955,101 units, followed by the Honda Civic Hybrid, with 204,513 vehicles, and the Toyota Camry Hybrid, with 169,564 units. The top selling hybrid in the U.S. by an American manufacturer is the Ford Escape Hybrid, with cumulative sales of 106,467 vehicles by December 2010, followed by the Fusion Hybrid, with sales of 36,370 units.[90] Japan and the U.S. represented 84% of global hybrid sales in 2009.[95] U.S. sales of the Toyota Prius reached the 1.0 million milestone in early April 2011,[11] and cumulative hybrid vehicle sales in the American market reached 2.0 million units in May 2011.[9] Cumulative sales of the Prii in Japan reached the 1 million mark in August 2011.[1]
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Samhain said:
I don't think the oil moved through the pipeline would count as a purchased import.
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Moving oil through the pipeline no

But that the oil is imported from Canada will
 
j-mac said:
Fires with these hybrids are not an isolated incident....

j-mac
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Please recall that the recall has nothing to do with the hybrid technology, is hose clamp faluire not a faluire or a design issue with the hybrid technology.

Any car with coolant hoses not properly secured could catch fire
 
TomFitz said:
Actually, I was pleased to see that they had sold any cars at all. I do know that there is a dealer in Fairfax, VA.
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This was never intended to be a high volume product, at over $100k a pop.
 
Imnukingfutz said:
Funny enough, they have only sold 50 of the vehicles. The other 189 are still sitting on dealer showrooms or on the factory parking lot.
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With a 100k+ starting price, it's hardly gonna be a volume seller. I bet it will be their halo car and the success of the Karma will determine Fisker's near future as a possible American competitor to the other American car staples.
 
AdamT said:
Is that a pure guess, or have you actually done the numbers?
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Just logic and observation

If you have 4 million combustion vehicles made and 1 million recalled you have a 25% recall rate
If you have 239 vehicles made and recall 239 vehicles recalled you have a 100% recall rate
 
we are having unproven tech pushed on us before it is ready to be released
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Hose clamps are unproven technology?>
 
TomFitz said:
Hose clamps are unproven technology?>
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Yeah, let's stick with that....Ignore the other hybrid battery fires that have recently come to light....You're right, it is just wonderful....

Oh, and let's not mention the environmental cost these cars really are either...Just keep looking for unicorns, and rainbows.....

And remember 'Obama 2012 - "It's not my fault'


j-mac
 
If by being opposed to the moon you mean making my current source of energy more and more expensive because you want to replace it with unproven tech. then yes
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That kind of thinking is EXACTLY why the United States did little or nothing to reduce its dependence on imported fossil fuels between 1980 and 2011. The Carter and Obama adminstrations are the only ones to have ever even attempted to do anything about getting us off the oil tit.

As long as pollution is free, and we do nothing to develop and promote alternatives, we will remain hostage to oil speculators and to rises in demand from other nations. The US is currently the world's largest consumer of fossil fuels, but China is catching up rapidly. Once that happens, it will be Chinese demand the drives the world price, not ours.

The notion that many conservatives seem to have, that all we have to do is drill more holes in the ground, is simplistic in the extreme. No matter where the oil comes from, it trades on global markets. No oil company is going to sell oil fracked in Pennsylvania for $50 if the market price is $100.

So, if you want cheap fossil fuel, and you're dumb enough to think that "drill baby drill" is a permanent long term policy, dream on.

You'll be sitting in a gas line again, sooner or later. It's only a matter of time.
 
There are currently over 4 million hybrid vehicles on the road worldwide, and the number is growing at the rate of about 200,000 per year and accelerating as more companies get into the business.

The Toyota Prius has been on the market for ten years now, and there are two million of them on the road in the US giving reliable, safe service to a very loyal customer base. Why would they be loyal? The best gas milage in the industry. Faultless reliablility and top of the market resale value. There are Pruis cabs in New York with 300,000 miles on their first batteries.

..Ignore the other hybrid battery fires that have recently come to light.
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You mean ONE fire issue. And this only occurred in extreme crash testing, and not for several hours after the crash. No Prius or any other hybrid has been cites for such problems

Oh, and let's not mention the environmental cost these cars really are either...Just keep looking for unicorns, and rainbows.....
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Hybrid technology is an established, proven and cost effective technology. It's being applied to heavy construction equipment and large overhead cranes now.

I don't know where you get this unicorns and rainbows notion, but you're the one who's behind the times on this.
 
If that keystone pipeline gets going, maybe that trade deficit will really start narrowing.
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Far be it for me to reacquaint you with elementary school geography, but importing oil from Canada will not reduce the US trade deficit for a fairly obvious reason!!!!!!!
 
I really don't understand why this is a big deal. It sounds like one isolated problem that can easily be fixed. It's not going to effect many people since few of us can afford a $100,000 car.
 
jambalaya said:
I really don't understand why this is a big deal. It sounds like one isolated problem that can easily be fixed. It's not going to effect many people since few of us can afford a $100,000 car.
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I know that fire departments and other emergency responders are scrambling with training and specialized equipment purchases so they can deal with hybrid vehicle fires.
 
It isn't.

But it's being blown all out of proportion by the flat earth types. They suck up oil industry propoganda about global warming, and the allegedly impracticality of altermative technologies. They use this as an excuse to fight ANY policy or investment that doesn't involve continued dependence on fossil fuel. And in so doing, they work toward big oil and big coal's agenda.

The United States consumes 25% of the world's energy. That's a big market for the fossil fuel industry. The last thing they want is competition.
 
I know that fire departments and other emergency responders are scrambling with training and specialized equipment purchases so they can deal with hybrid vehicle fires.
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I think you made that up, since in the ten years that hybrids have been on the road in the US there are NO cases of hybrid related vehicle fires on the road.
 
TomFitz said:
It isn't.

But it's being blown all out of proportion by the flat earth types. They suck up oil industry propoganda about global warming, and the allegedly impracticality of altermative technologies. They use this as an excuse to fight ANY policy or investment that doesn't involve continued dependence on fossil fuel. And in so doing, they work toward big oil and big coal's agenda.

The United States consumes 25% of the world's energy. That's a big market for the fossil fuel industry. The last thing they want is competition.
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Good thing over 60% of the world's lithium is in US-friendly China.

Additionally, over 60% of the energy you would use to charge those batteries would be generated through fossil fuels.

I would also like to see how the grid holds up when you add this additional electrical consumption.

The correct solution should be to amass as much fossil fuels in the present, expand the current production of nuclear power plants and renewable power plants, while investing in long-term, environment safe batteries. When the time comes to cut fossil fuels, the next-gen storage technology will be ready while our long term power generation needs will be met.
 
Imnukingfutz said:
Bad investment after bad investment from this administration.
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I thought that the idea of investment is that there's the possibility of risk involved as well as the possibility of reward.

Imnukingfutz said:
Maybe if they would stop making loan guarantees to their friends and campaign contributors and stop wasting our tax dollars on stupid crap we might not be in the situation we are still in.
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Maybe if the government as a whole didn't essentially demand what amounts to bribery in order to be heard...
 
Samhain said:
The correct solution should be to amass as much fossil fuels in the present, expand the current production of nuclear power plants and renewable power plants, while investing in long-term, environment safe batteries. When the time comes to cut fossil fuels, the next-gen storage technology will be ready while our long term power generation needs will be met.
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This is pretty much what is happening right now. Fossil fuels cannot be cut this instant. We still need them badly. But in order to be in position to cut fossil fuels, alternative energy needs to be started up now, because it will take a long time to where alternative energies can replace fossil fuels. Electric Vehicles (EVs) are yet another step in this process. People need to stop trying to kill alternative energies and EVs using lame excuses. Complaining about that Fisker is an example of this. The cars are being recalled because of hose clamps not because the electric car technology is bad. But people are trying use this as an excuse to kill the idea of EVs.

The technology of EVs is new and it will have growing pains, but it's important that we overcome these hurdles now. Eventually the price of oil will become unbearable and we will need to change immediately. This is inevitable. It's better to overcome hurdles now, when we time, and stop complaining about them rather than when we don't have time for hurdles.
 
TomFitz said:
It isn't.

But it's being blown all out of proportion by the flat earth types. They suck up oil industry propoganda about global warming, and the allegedly impracticality of altermative technologies. They use this as an excuse to fight ANY policy or investment that doesn't involve continued dependence on fossil fuel. And in so doing, they work toward big oil and big coal's agenda.

The United States consumes 25% of the world's energy. That's a big market for the fossil fuel industry. The last thing they want is competition.
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I dont know anyone opposed to alternative fuels, be it solar, wind, hybrid etc...Why is it that if you arent 100% in favor of over priced, under performing alternative fuels that you are 100% against them? Why is it an all or nothing proposition?


Secondly...where do you think the power comes from to plug in / power these electric cars? Fossil fuel burning power generating plants. Granted we do have some nuclear and hydro-electric power stations.... PROVEN alternative energy sources...but the damn tree hugging environmentalist types fight tooth and nail to stop any more from being put up, a pretty powerful Washington lobby group those tree huggers...they are pushing the solar and wind power.
 
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