• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Strait of Hormuz standoff: Iran films US aircraft carrier

The largest portion of oil going through the straits is destined for China. They definitely do not want the straits blocked.

I don't think they have anything to gain, either way.
 
How about for a change of pace, we stay the hell out of it and let the Chinese deal with it? Between China and India, they have more to lose than we do.
 
How about for a change of pace, we stay the hell out of it and let the Chinese deal with it? Between China and India, they have more to lose than we do.

We begin the path to "staying out of it" by throwing Obama out of office, and then embracing "drill baby drill".
 
How about for a change of pace, we stay the hell out of it and let the Chinese deal with it? Between China and India, they have more to lose than we do.

Yeah, let's stay out of it. Gas can go up to $10 a gallon, in the middle of a depression. There will be worldwide food shortages. Economic collapse.

Staying out of it will be awesome!
 
Yeah, let's stay out of it. Gas can go up to $10 a gallon, in the middle of a depression. There will be worldwide food shortages. Economic collapse....

40 years of darkness!!!!!

lions, tigers, bears!!!!!!

dogs & cats, living together, mass-hysteria!!!!!

;)
 
So, my question here. If Iran tries to block the Straight, 1. is that an act of war? and 2. Would the US be justified in taking out Iran's navy, and possibly further action in Iran?


j-mac


Where in America is this straight again that gives us the claim to have the rights to defend it??

Why are we justified in retaliating against someone trying to defend their own sovereign interests??

Would the Norwegians be justified in taking out Cuba's navy if the Cuban's prevented shipment of their cigars around the world??
 
Yeah, let's stay out of it. Gas can go up to $10 a gallon, in the middle of a depression. There will be worldwide food shortages. Economic collapse.

Staying out of it will be awesome!

Dogs and cats sleeping together. Basically the worst parts of the bible.
 
Where in America is this straight again that gives us the claim to have the rights to defend it??

Why are we justified in retaliating against someone trying to defend their own sovereign interests??

Would the Norwegians be justified in taking out Cuba's navy if the Cuban's prevented shipment of their cigars around the world??

The strait is international waters. Iran has no legal authority to blockade them.
 
40 years of darkness!!!!!

lions, tigers, bears!!!!!!

dogs & cats, living together, mass-hysteria!!!!!

;)

Let's explain a simple concept called "supply and demand". The strait of hormuz sees about 40% of the worlds oil being transported through it.

So, let's say they block that 40% from getting through. It will take 1 day of blockage to see a surge in oil price of probably the 30% range as other producers will try to offset the shortage, but that's not something that's really sustainable for any long period.

In that meantime, supplies will be drained, and as those supplies are drained more people and countries will enter the open market.

I get that you don't want to be pessimistic, but at least be REALISTIC, that a war with Iran is NOT in our best interest, JUST on the facts concerning oil prices and the strait of hormuz.
 
This is all a result of media generated hysteria promoted by US intelligence, warmongers, corporations, and politicians to demonize Iranians just like they demonized Saddam, Saddam and Iraq were no threat to the USA and neither is MudBob and Iran. Now wars do make money and if wars make you money, then you have to use every opportunity to gin up war, wherever you can find it. Wars are very profitable. Wait a minute, that's sounding like business. Even, business as usual. Screw that liberty and justice crap, let's profit handsomely from more war. That's how I sees it.
 
Yeah, let's stay out of it. Gas can go up to $10 a gallon, in the middle of a depression. There will be worldwide food shortages. Economic collapse.

Staying out of it will be awesome!

Globally oil is in decline. We are beyond Peak Oil, though no government wants to make that official. That's why Texas is booming in oil production right now. It is why oil companies are drilling incredibly deep wells off shore. It's why there is the big push for oil sand production. Oil is becoming scarce. Easy and relatively inexpensive oil is gone for the most part.

Like it or not we are closer to not having affordable oil than we ever have been and that fact is not going to change save for a few market ups and downs and an occasional new - and smaller and/or expensive to produce field - from time to time. Add to that the fact that China and India as emerging world economies are going to be consuming the hell out of oil, in greater quantities than the U.S. Much greater consumption, decreasing supplies. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to know that at the present rate big lifestyle changes are ahead for the world and especially for the U.S.
 
Being a former Navy vet having sailed throughout the waters in the Persian Gulf region - from Mediterranean Sea, the Suez Canel X2, the Adriatic Sea, the Straits of Hormez into the Persian Gulf X2 - I can tell you that the U.S. has had Navy warships in the region for decades ranging from an aircraft carrier battle group to smaller naval contingencies. All Iran is doing right now is postering, flexing their muscles so-to-speak. They've been itching for a fight with the U.S. for over 30 years. It's not surprising to see them do things just to egg us on.

Let Iran conduct their naval exercises. As long as they don't do anything stupid like fire upon one of our warships, there's really nothing to worry about. But if they do, we'd just unleash every cruise and/or Tomahawk missle we have on their butts and really turn Iran into a desert wasteland. But if all they do is institute a naval blockade of the Strait, I would hope that the President and all other U.N. member nations would join together to do whatever it took to stop the blockade including authorizing the use of military force. In other words, as long as we're not attacked I see no reason why the U.S. should take on Iran's threat of a blockade - assuming, of course, they carry through with the threat - by ourselves. It's international waters; the international community has a stack in this, too, probably moreso than we do since we import less OPEC oil now than we did 10 years ago.
 
Last edited:
1) Yes, that would be an act of war.

2) Yes, not only would we be justified, we would have to do it. Hormuz is too critical to not just us, but the world.

By the way, filming an aircraft carrier, especially in that area is not hard to do.


Agreed


j-mac
 
Globally oil is in decline. We are beyond Peak Oil, though no government wants to make that official. That's why Texas is booming in oil production right now. It is why oil companies are drilling incredibly deep wells off shore. It's why there is the big push for oil sand production. Oil is becoming scarce. Easy and relatively inexpensive oil is gone for the most part.

Like it or not we are closer to not having affordable oil than we ever have been and that fact is not going to change save for a few market ups and downs and an occasional new - and smaller and/or expensive to produce field - from time to time. Add to that the fact that China and India as emerging world economies are going to be consuming the hell out of oil, in greater quantities than the U.S. Much greater consumption, decreasing supplies. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to know that at the present rate big lifestyle changes are ahead for the world and especially for the U.S.

That's not entirely accurate...

Yes, MIDDLE EASTERN oil is past the peak, now that we've used up the middle eastern oil reserves, now the destabilization efforts can begin.

What most people don't realize is that there are at least 5 locations in north america with SO MUCH OIL (of a slightly lesser quality than the light sweet crude) that the US could LITERALLY replace Saudi Arabian supplies many times over and have that supply remain viable for CENTURIES!!!

That said, you are right that the US is going to be a third world nation fairly soon if things continue to spiral out of control as they've been doing... and then it really will become the "chinese century" that has been discussed by global think tanks for decades now.
 
That's not entirely accurate...

Yes, MIDDLE EASTERN oil is past the peak, now that we've used up the middle eastern oil reserves, now the destabilization efforts can begin.

What most people don't realize is that there are at least 5 locations in north america with SO MUCH OIL (of a slightly lesser quality than the light sweet crude) that the US could LITERALLY replace Saudi Arabian supplies many times over and have that supply remain viable for CENTURIES!!!

Apparently the U.S. Energy Information Administration isn't aware of that, either. Perhaps you should drop them a line and tell them about these vast untapped reserves.
 
This is all a result of media generated hysteria promoted by US intelligence, warmongers, corporations, and politicians to demonize Iranians just like they demonized Saddam

With all due respect, the current president of Iran - Mahmoud Ahmadinejad - is the real demon here. His direct threats and hatred toward the state of Israel is well documented and should be taken at it's face value.

.... But if they do, we'd just unleash every cruise and/or Tomahawk missle we have on their butts and really turn Iran into a desert wasteland.

I hope we don't go that far. I remember reading about the Carter Doctrine in school where we would keep the strait open at all costs and I think it still applies here. But in the case of Iran I would just meet force with force but not escalate to a point of full out war. Sinking an Iranian ship, or ships, that is attempting to block the free flow of shipping in international waters would be appropriate and legal according to international law....although a few of my friends think like you. :)

Bee
 
Apparently the U.S. Energy Information Administration isn't aware of that, either. Perhaps you should drop them a line and tell them about these vast untapped reserves.

Just because YOU are not being spoon fed the information does not mean that those involved in this production are not aware.

These places are either tapped and waiting, or in the process of being tapped for when the middle east oil supply gets cut off in this upcoming war with Iran.

The catch is that most of these BIG oil reserves are at this point called "nature conservatories" of sorts.
 
Would it be just the US being called on, or do you see a more global response?


j-mac

It would be nice if others assisted since most nations share major interests in the free passage of shipping through the Strait. However, the U.S. is in the best position to act quickly and decisively and given its vital interests at stake could do so on its own.
 
Because it is international waters, the Strait would be subject to international law (correct?) and the UN


provides two principal exceptions to the prohibition on the use of force in international affairs: 1.) The UN Security Council (not the General Assembly) can authorize member nations to “take such action by air, sea, or land forces as may be necessary to maintain or restore international peace and security” and 2) Force can be used in self defense under Article 51 of the Charter. Specifically, Article 51 says that: “Nothing in the present Charter shall impair the inherent right of individual or collective self-defense if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the United Nations, until the Security Council has taken measures necessary to maintain international peace and security….”​


Source: http://www.duke.edu/~pfeaver/dunlapterrorism.pdf

Thus, wouldn't it be up to the international community to decide if anyone should go and attack the Strait?

Not necessarily. The effort could be undertaken and then the UN Security Council could be informed that it was undertaken under Article 51. Naval blockades are acts of war. Iran, by blockading the international waters of the Strait of Hormuz, would have initiated an act of war.
 
This is all a result of media generated hysteria promoted by US intelligence, warmongers, corporations, and politicians to demonize Iranians just like they demonized Saddam, Saddam and Iraq were no threat to the USA and neither is MudBob and Iran. Now wars do make money and if wars make you money, then you have to use every opportunity to gin up war, wherever you can find it. Wars are very profitable. Wait a minute, that's sounding like business. Even, business as usual. Screw that liberty and justice crap, let's profit handsomely from more war. That's how I sees it.

Well you sees it wrong.
 
Two sides to this story. Our embargo against Iran constitutes an "act of war." Would you rather forget that, or are you still hearing the old Saddam lark "mushroom clouds in the US?" Complete bullcrap taking residence in your cerebellum.

Embargos are not acts of war. Silly statement.
 
Being a former Navy vet having sailed throughout the waters in the Persian Gulf region - from Mediterranean Sea, the Suez Canel X2, the Adriatic Sea, the Straits of Hormez into the Persian Gulf X2 - I can tell you that the U.S. has had Navy warships in the region for decades ranging from an aircraft carrier battle group to smaller naval contingencies. All Iran is doing right now is postering, flexing their muscles so-to-speak. They've been itching for a fight with the U.S. for over 30 years. It's not surprising to see them do things just to egg us on.

Let Iran conduct their naval exercises. As long as they don't do anything stupid like fire upon one of our warships, there's really nothing to worry about. But if they do, we'd just unleash every cruise and/or Tomahawk missle we have on their butts and really turn Iran into a desert wasteland. But if all they do is institute a naval blockade of the Strait, I would hope that the President and all other U.N. member nations would join together to do whatever it took to stop the blockade including authorizing the use of military force. In other words, as long as we're not attacked I see no reason why the U.S. should take on Iran's threat of a blockade - assuming, of course, they carry through with the threat - by ourselves. It's international waters; the international community has a stack in this, too, probably moreso than we do since we import less OPEC oil now than we did 10 years ago.

There is absolutely no need to attack Iran. Just sink any ship or shoot down any aircraft that attempts to enforce any blockade.
 
Just because YOU are not being spoon fed the information does not mean that those involved in this production are not aware.

These places are either tapped and waiting, or in the process of being tapped for when the middle east oil supply gets cut off in this upcoming war with Iran.

The catch is that most of these BIG oil reserves are at this point called "nature conservatories" of sorts.

Ahh, the giant secret oil reserves conspiracy. Got it!
 
Back
Top Bottom