• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Parents Angry After School Put Autistic Son in Bag

jamesrage said:
Then shouldn't the parent have brought a lycra bag for the school to use just in case the child is feeling overstimulated? I know if a child needed regular medication then the parents would make sure the child has their medication with them or bring the medication and let a nurse or some other adult administer the child's medication. As far as I know those teachers just stuffed the kid in a duffel bag because they felt that a duffel bag is better than no bag at all. People improvise all the time when they do not have an exact tool or an exact item.
Click to expand...

A lycra bag costs $20 to $30 dollars in most cases. Either the parents or the school should have bought it, that part doesn't matter, they are cheap.

The main issue, however, is that without the proper tools, and equipment, I don't believe the school should be attempting any sort of therapy.
 
Bodhisattva said:
Would you be that calm before or after your kid was tied up in a gym bag?
Click to expand...

A lot of people can think rational and do not let their emotions control them too much. They would at least find out why first before swinging their fists and risk going to jail over a misunderstanding.
 
megaprogman said:
A lycra bag costs $20 to $30 dollars in most cases. Either the parents or the school should have bought it, that part doesn't matter, they are cheap.
Click to expand...

Then the parent should have bought a bag to be used at school.Schools don't pay for a child's medication so why should they pay for a lycra bag?This falls on the parent for not providing the proper tools and or equipment and telling the school in how to exactly deal with the child should that child feel overstimulated. I do not know about you but I have never heard of lycra bag therapy before this thread.At fist when I saw this thread I was like what thats ****ed up they stuck a kid in a bag. But then I read that they stick these kids in lycra bags as a form of therapy. Being someone who improvises when not having the right tools or materials this doesn't sound that sinister sticking a autistic child in a duffel bag assuming they didn't have any lycra bags.

The main issue, however, is that without the proper tools, and equipment, I don't believe the school should be attempting any sort of therapy.
Click to expand...

As far as we know the school probably felt that doing nothing would have resulted in the child getting worse.
 
Josie said:
As I said, if a child is out of control, he should be removed from the classroom. I did not say the child should be removed for any behavior problem.

Sincerely,

A teacher :)
Click to expand...

Okay, that's clear. Though it might not apply in a special ed classroom. You might have an adaptation for handling the behavior right there in the classroom, like a quite spot.
 
Eighty Deuce said:
Well, aren't we special !! I can't speak for Josie, but I have certainly favored the views of that poster over yours. And I may, or may not be, the parent of a special needs child. I think it a bit too much "heart on my sleeve" to claim such were it the case, and then pontificate from that soapbox.

Like it or not, there are practical restrictions in the public domain. The school system has its protocols and procedures, and it has its budgets. That other taxpayers are somehow obligated to pick up the tab to provide everyone's version of acceptable care of special needs students is not practical. That may not validate this type of therapy, but we BOTH know that in the autism-aspergers arena some children can be prone to violent and harming episodes. Hopefully your child is not, and never will be, one of those such afflicted. But it is for the school board to decide the resources it will allocate. Local citizens need to influence those folks, but again, you are not owed, nor is the school system obligated, to provide you with all the resources you want. They are not obligated to provide you with even what you feel is a minimum. You may have to choose other means of care/education.

We don't know near enough from what could be a very incomplete news story. But even then, I think Josie has been very fair in their views.
Click to expand...

I agree that they aren't obligated to provide anything and everything, but there are federal legal obligations imposed on schools to teach kids with special needs. Let's make that clear for those who aren't aware.
 
jamesrage said:
A lot of people can think rational and do not let their emotions control them too much. They would at least find out why first before swinging their fists and risk going to jail over a misunderstanding.
Click to expand...

Oh well look whose pretending ot be Mr Perfect.

Some of us have a sense of urgency in certain situations that we see to be violating or abusing our children and treating them with an astounding amount of indignity to say the least.

Action first.
Questions later.
When it concerns youth who cannot defend theirselves.

I'd reserve the inquiries and questions for later on after I'm assured my children are safe and far from harm.

If I act wrongly - then I'd give an appology if it's necessary.

If I myself seemed to be abusing, neglecting or harming SOMEONE ELSE'S child in their eyes - I'd expect no less but physical intervention. I would expect no less of any other parent - no fault and no blame. If I am not doing anything wrong - they will likely appologize and even if they DON'T then I won't hold it against them: because I KNOW what it is like and what it means ot be a parent.

If the story read "she bitch slapped the attendant because she couldn't get her son untied" I wouldn't hold it against her AT ALL. I'm surprised she contained her anger and shock - I'm surprised she WAITED for the woman to untie her son. . . I would not just stand around waiting for my son to be released.

My likely response would be 'get your ****ing hands OFF my child - you've done enough all ready.'

Holy **** - listen to you.

At what point would you get angry, then? At what point would you stand up for your child? Or would you just let them CONTINUE to bag your child without concern?
 
misterman said:
I agree that they aren't obligated to provide anything and everything, but there are federal legal obligations imposed on schools to teach kids with special needs. Let's make that clear for those who aren't aware.
Click to expand...
i hope we recall this thread when we post in another, castigating the poor jobs public teachers are doing
where we refuse to acknowledge that private schools are able to decline to accept the students requiring extensive training and patience in a way public schools are not

my wife is a retired public school teacher. and she often commented about the parents of special needs children who would not allow their children to be tested to document their special needs
they were fearful that their kids would no longer be able to be mainstreamed - taught with the other children without such disabilities
so, what would result is a disruptive child, without the medication they required, inhibiting the learning of the remaining students in the classroom. all because the teacher's time was disproportionately devoted to caring for the child who possessed some impairment, for which that student was not receiving other, appropriate treatment
it was a form of denial by the parent, who pretended that their child had the capacity to mainstream, when in fact, they did not. those students are better served by schools with the facilities and teachers equipped to teach them, despite their special needs. seldom is that going to be the case in a mainstream school
i wonder if the parent who objected to the treatment received by her child is one of those parents who was/is in denial
 
jamesrage said:
Then the parent should have bought a bag to be used at school.Schools don't pay for a child's medication so why should they pay for a lycra bag?This falls on the parent for not providing the proper tools and or equipment and telling the school in how to exactly deal with the child should that child feel overstimulated. I do not know about you but I have never heard of lycra bag therapy before this thread.At fist when I saw this thread I was like what thats ****ed up they stuck a kid in a bag. But then I read that they stick these kids in lycra bags as a form of therapy. Being someone who improvises when not having the right tools or materials this doesn't sound that sinister sticking a autistic child in a duffel bag assuming they didn't have any lycra bags.



As far as we know the school probably felt that doing nothing would have resulted in the child getting worse.
Click to expand...

James, if the IEP team believes a student would greatly benefit from a product or service for the classroom, the parents do not need to cough up the cash. The cost barrier is high for parents, and It is considered "free and appropriate education." If the school would try to push that onto the parents' wallet, then an advocate would rightly point out that it is the school's responsibility, not the parents'.

It was how I was able to get some of the products from Vocational Rehabilitation.
 
Last edited:
Aunt Spiker said:
Oh well look whose pretending ot be Mr Perfect.

Some of us have a sense of urgency in certain situations that we see to be violating or abusing our children and treating them with an astounding amount of indignity to say the least.

Action first.
Questions later.
When it concerns youth who cannot defend theirselves.

I'd reserve the inquiries and questions for later on after I'm assured my children are safe and far from harm.

If I act wrongly - then I'd give an appology if it's necessary.

If I myself seemed to be abusing, neglecting or harming SOMEONE ELSE'S child in their eyes - I'd expect no less but physical intervention. I would expect no less of any other parent - no fault and no blame. If I am not doing anything wrong - they will likely appologize and even if they DON'T then I won't hold it against them: because I KNOW what it is like and what it means ot be a parent.

If the story read "she bitch slapped the attendant because she couldn't get her son untied" I wouldn't hold it against her AT ALL. I'm surprised she contained her anger and shock - I'm surprised she WAITED for the woman to untie her son. . . I would not just stand around waiting for my son to be released.

My likely response would be 'get your ****ing hands OFF my child - you've done enough all ready.'

Holy **** - listen to you.

At what point would you get angry, then? At what point would you stand up for your child? Or would you just let them CONTINUE to bag your child without concern?
Click to expand...

Walking into school and seeing a child in a duffel bag is not witnessing abuse. At first glance you do not know why the child is in the bag,if it some part of a play or activity the kids are doing, who put the child in the bag or even if the child put him or herself in a bag.When I was a kid I would hide in toy boxes, laundry hampers and if I had a duffel bag I would have put myself in it.My nieces and nephew do stuff like that.Kids do **** like like that.You are just being totally irrational and making it seem as though it was malice on the school's part when the article describes no malice.Now if the parent walked in and seen the teaching beating the child then that would be witnessing abuse. The fact is the parent failed to provide lycra bag and failed to tell the school and teachers exactly what do when their kid starts acting up or going bonkers or what ever it is when a autistic kid is having a sensory overload. The school at the time may have thought this was better than doing nothing at all.
 
megaprogman said:
A lycra bag costs $20 to $30 dollars in most cases. Either the parents or the school should have bought it, that part doesn't matter, they are cheap.

The main issue, however, is that without the proper tools, and equipment, I don't believe the school should be attempting any sort of therapy.
Click to expand...

Well, furthermore, there seems to be a number of problems:

1) Who gave that okay? There should have been someone who was trained and knowledgable in that therapy. if they aren't, they are supervised by those who are.

2) The parents were not informed by the team as to "what" they were employing. The parents need to be expressly informed on specifics.

3) If the IEP deems it necessary, no, the parents are *not* expected to front the costs. That is the school's responsibility.
 
jamesrage said:
Walking into school and seeing a child in a duffel bag is not witnessing abuse. At first glance you do not know why the child is in the bag,if it some part of a play or activity the kids are doing, who put the child in the bag or even if the child put him or herself in a bag.When I was a kid I would hide in toy boxes, laundry hampers and if I had a duffel bag I would have put myself in it.My nieces and nephew do stuff like that.Kids do **** like like that.You are just being totally irrational and making it seem as though it was malice on the school's part when the article describes no malice.Now if the parent walked in and seen the teaching beating the child then that would be witnessing abuse. The fact is the parent failed to provide lycra bag and failed to tell the school and teachers exactly what do when their kid starts acting up or going bonkers or what ever it is when a autistic kid is having a sensory overload. The school at the time may have thought this was better than doing nothing at all.
Click to expand...

The fact is James, you don't know what you're talking about. It is normally okay for someone to say "I dont know much about special education, but I would feel (blank)". However, you are out of your element and you are making claims that in no way resemble reality. The reality is that these are exceptional cases. You hiding in a box or in a tight corner is hardly representative for why, for instance, my brother needed small for corners behind the sectional couch, or a therapeutic plastic tunnel.

1) There is an entire professional apparatus that is in charge of knowing what a) the student has b) what is necessary to deal with a students' issues and potential outbursts.

2) in no way are the parents legally responsible to provide the school with the equipment necessary for that student's academic experience when it comes to the special need. The responsibility falls to the state and it's various outlets (the school, vocational rehabilitation, etc.)

3) That IEP team is supposed to have qualified staff that are able to professionally and ethically serve the student. Mom and Dad are not expected to be psychologists, physical or speech therapists. That is the team's job.
 
Last edited:
jamesrage said:
Then the parent should have bought a bag to be used at school.Schools don't pay for a child's medication so why should they pay for a lycra bag?This falls on the parent for not providing the proper tools and or equipment and telling the school in how to exactly deal with the child should that child feel overstimulated. I do not know about you but I have never heard of lycra bag therapy before this thread.At fist when I saw this thread I was like what thats ****ed up they stuck a kid in a bag. But then I read that they stick these kids in lycra bags as a form of therapy. Being someone who improvises when not having the right tools or materials this doesn't sound that sinister sticking a autistic child in a duffel bag assuming they didn't have any lycra bags.
Click to expand...

Federal laws necessitate an appropriate learning environment for children as a part of the IEP process for special needs kids. So that part of your concern is already addressed.

jamesrage said:
As far as we know the school probably felt that doing nothing would have resulted in the child getting worse.
Click to expand...

Possibly.
 
Last edited:
jamesrage said:
Walking into school and seeing a child in a duffel bag is not witnessing abuse.
Click to expand...

Why isn't it? That would be first and only assumption and thought - it would be HARD for someone to convince me otherwise. Maybe I should be the one my feelings about what's abusive to my children and not you?

Her son was IN TROUBLE. They called her TO school to come and GET him. It's not like they were on the playground having a good time or something - he was tied up in a bag and in the middle of a hallway waiting for his mom to come and get him.

They picked up the phone - dialed her number - talked to her -a nd told her to come and get him becaues he was out of control. She arrived: found him holed up in a bag in the middle of a hallway and your response is "oh - maybe they were playing"

Can you not possible see how this is NOT PLAYTIME?

Geesh - your stupidity and blatant wishy washiness is ruining my Christmas . . . I'm out of here.

You've got issues.
 
Last edited:
Aunt Spiker said:
Why isn't it? That would be first and only assumption and thought - it would be HARD for someone to convince me otherwise. Maybe I should be the one my feelings about what's abusive to my children and not you?

Her son was IN TROUBLE. They called her TO school to come and GET him. It's not like they were on the playground having a good time or something - he was tied up in a bag and in the middle of a hallway waiting for his mom to come and get him.

They picked up the phone - dialed her number - talked to her -a nd told her to come and get him becaues he was out of control. She arrived: found him holed up in a bag in the middle of a hallway and your response is "oh - maybe they were playing"

Can you not possible see how this is NOT PLAYTIME?

Geesh - your stupidity and blatant wishy washiness is ruining my Christmas . . . I'm out of here.

You've got issues.
Click to expand...

If I knew my kid had this and it was explained to me that it was all they could come up with to get him to quit hitting his head on the wall, I very well might be understanding.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
Why isn't it? That would be first and only assumption and thought - it would be HARD for someone to convince me otherwise. Maybe I should be the one my feelings about what's abusive to my children and not you?

Her son was IN TROUBLE. They called her TO school to come and GET him. It's not like they were on the playground having a good time or something - he was tied up in a bag and in the middle of a hallway waiting for his mom to come and get him.

They picked up the phone - dialed her number - talked to her -a nd told her to come and get him becaues he was out of control. She arrived: found him holed up in a bag in the middle of a hallway and your response is "oh - maybe they were playing"

Can you not possible see how this is NOT PLAYTIME?

Geesh - your stupidity and blatant wishy washiness is ruining my Christmas . . . I'm out of here.

You've got issues.
Click to expand...

You know what's funny, though? None of the articles I can find suggest that child was in any way panicked or stressed when the mother arrived. There is no indication that he was still in the middle of an episode, that he was crying, hyperventilating, or displaying any other behaviors that might suggest that he was under duress at the time of her arrival. As I said before, one absolutely must consider whether or not the methods employed helped or hindered the child. As you are surely aware, the sensory experience for an autistic child is entirely different than a sensory experience for somebody without autism. What we would consider traumatic or abusive for a "normal" child is often pleasant and comforting to an autistic child. Sure, it seems that the bag used was not appropriate in design, but if the means justified the ends, perhaps storming in yelling and screaming and causing a scene would actually create a more stressful/harmful situation for the child, specifically if he has sensory processing issues.
 
let's examine the father's response:
“The school shouldn’t be asking Sandra [the student's mom] to do their job,” said her husband. “What if she or I aren’t available? They need to learn how to handle [situations like these]. Right now, they seem like they have no patience for it.”
Click to expand...
he resented the parents being called to address their child's inappropriate behavior

i have no patience for parents like this. make sure your child is prepared to attend school without being disruptive. otherwise expect to receive lots of calls to have him removed from the premises. ultimately, that request may be for permanent removal. the remaining students' learning opportunity should not be diminished because of this or any other child

DAD is the one who has inflicted a problem child on the public school system. DAD (and MOM) should be the ones to make sure their kid can behave himself in the school system

being unable to do that, then THEY need to find the appropriate institution which can assist them in THEIR efforts to get THEIR child under control. quit inflicting others with THEIR problem

while those comments will probably not be well received by others in this thread who have children with emotional/behavioral and/or learning disabilities, the truth needs to be told and heard
 
justabubba said:
let's examine the father's response:

he resented the parents being called to address their child's inappropriate behavior

i have no patience for parents like this. make sure your child is prepared to attend school without being disruptive. otherwise expect to receive lots of calls to have him removed from the premises. ultimately, that request may be for permanent removal. the remaining students' learning opportunity should not be diminished because of this or any other child

DAD is the one who has inflicted a problem child on the public school system. DAD (and MOM) should be the ones to make sure their kid can behave himself in the school system

being unable to do that, then THEY need to find the appropriate institution which can assist them in THEIR efforts to get THEIR child under control. quit inflicting others with THEIR problem

while those comments will probably not be well received by others in this thread who have children with emotional/behavioral and/or learning disabilities, the truth needs to be told and heard
Click to expand...

Um, no. It is not the "truth." It is your uninformed version of it. How about you use your ears and brain more and your mouth less?
 
justabubba said:
let's examine the father's response:

he resented the parents being called to address their child's inappropriate behavior

i have no patience for parents like this. make sure your child is prepared to attend school without being disruptive. otherwise expect to receive lots of calls to have him removed from the premises. ultimately, that request may be for permanent removal. the remaining students' learning opportunity should not be diminished because of this or any other child

DAD is the one who has inflicted a problem child on the public school system. DAD (and MOM) should be the ones to make sure their kid can behave himself in the school system

being unable to do that, then THEY need to find the appropriate institution which can assist them in THEIR efforts to get THEIR child under control. quit inflicting others with THEIR problem

while those comments will probably not be well received by others in this thread who have children with emotional/behavioral and/or learning disabilities, the truth needs to be told and heard
Click to expand...

My ass, bub.

Half of the reason why special education had such a difficult go over 50 years ago was because of the automatic assumption of "problem child." That was the exact term used in most of the literature throughout the 20th century when these kids were shoved underneath the education system.

The child has some control over their behavior, but not always. When my brother was 5-8 years old, he could have quickly turned violent. I did not understand it at the time, but he had no control over it, and my parents did everything they could to make the situation improve (for Christ's sake, why the hell wouldn't they?). In his mind, he thought he was two different people. This child probably acted in a different way than my own brother, yet you would receive a million eye rolls from anyone who knows a lick about what it is like.

Special education is no picnic for anyone involved (one of the first lessons I learned as a special education student), but let's not shove this on the parents like so many had been tempted to do over the decades for obvious incompetence from the staff.
 
Last edited:
misterman said:
Um, no. It is not the "truth." It is your uninformed version of it. How about you use your ears and brain more and your mouth less?
Click to expand...

it is the truth. admittedly, one the parents/family of kids with problems would rather not acknowledge
their children handicap the learning opportunities of the remaining students in a class. students who possess the behavior to behave in a learning environment
kids with problems need help. that help should not be expected in the environment of a mainstream classroom
 
Fiddytree said:
My ass, bub.

Half of the reason why special education had such a difficult go over 50 years ago was because of the automatic assumption of "problem child." That was the exact term used in most of the literature throughout the 20th century when these kids were shoved underneath the education system.

The child has some control over their behavior, but not always. When my brother was 5-8 years old, he could have quickly turned violent. I did not understand it at the time, but he had no control over it, and my parents did everything they could to make the situation improve (for Christ's sake, why the hell wouldn't they?). In his mind, he thought he was two different people. This child probably acted in a different way than my own brother, yet you would receive a million eye rolls from anyone who knows a lick about what it is like.

Special education is no picnic for anyone involved (one of the first lessons I learned), but let's not shove this on the parents like so many had been tempted to do over the decades for obvious incompetence.
Click to expand...


and similarly, let's not shove this problem on the well behaved students whose education suffers because they are inflicted with students who cannot act obediently

glad you pointed to the 20th century methodology, when those kids were not mainstreamed
that is the period in time when our public schools were well performing institutions
 
justabubba said:
glad you pointed to the 20th century methodology, when those kids were not mainstreamed
that is the period in time when our public schools were well performing institutions
Click to expand...

And people like my brother were shoved into separate schools that stunted their growth. He was the first person in the state to get mainstreamed, and I could tell you, with the right staff (and God knows, we had some fantastic staff and support), this kid (now 23) has far outshined expecations. We were told to put him in an institution for the rest of his life, and now the guy has the ability (through struggle) to go to community college.

Despite the bitching and moaning against mainstreaming, it was here to stay, and few have complained since. The only ones that seem to complain are people like you.
 
Last edited:
Fiddytree said:
And people like my brother were shoved into separate schools that stunted their growth. He was the first person in the state to get mainstreamed, and I could tell you, with the right staff (and God knows, we had some fantastic staff and support), this kid (now 23) has far outshined expecations. We were told to put him in an institution for the rest of his life, and now the guy has the ability (through struggle) to go to community college.

Despite the bitching and moaning against mainstreaming, it was here to stay, and few have complained. The only ones that seem to complain are people like you.
Click to expand...

i complain because of the way it afflicts the students who should not be deprived of a good education
kids with problems need/deserve help
just not at the expense of other kids
 
justabubba said:
i complain because of the way it afflicts the students who should not be deprived of a good education
kids with problems need/deserve help
just not at the expense of other kids
Click to expand...

Just not with the other kids, right? It's also good to know you blame the status of the education system, at least in part, because of mainstreaming. Shameful.
 
Fiddytree said:
Just not with the other kids, right?
Click to expand...
if, like the other kids, they can not be disruptive, then their presence is not an impediment

It's also good to know you blame the status of the education system, at least in part, because of mainstreaming.
Click to expand...
while all of the problems of the current public education system are not the result of inappropriate mainstreaming efforts, certainly that has been one substantial factor in the demise of the public school accomplishments
students who require one-on-one learning take important/valuable teaching time away from the other students whose learning opportunity is diminished only because the teacher is consistently preoccupied with the slowest learner in the class

Shameful.
Click to expand...
tragic would be a better term. that we have allowed generations of kids to receive an inadequate education in a competitive society, only because of an experiment which has only indicated negative results
 
justabubba said:
tragic would be a better term. that we have allowed generations of kids to receive an inadequate education in a competitive society, only because of an experiment which has only indicated negative results
Click to expand...

That could just as well be a statement about racial integration of schools.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom