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House Republicans Cave on Payroll Tax Cuts Extension

Dittohead not! said:
I have to admit to an imperfect understanding of this issue.

First, the original tax cut was a Democrat idea, was it not? Cut payroll taxes, which are supposed to have been Social Security taxes, but have been spent on anything and everything for decades, in order to put a few more bucks in the pockets of the middle class and working poor. OK, so far.

Of course, the issue of keeping SS alive while cutting the tax hasn't been addressed.

Then, the Republicans want to extend the tax cuts for a year, while the Democrats want to extend their own idea for two months.

and, finally, they cave and the Democrats get their way, which is to continue the tax cuts they initiated only two months instead of a year.

I must be missing something here.
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Maybe I can help. This beast that is the payroll-tax cuts was created solely to be used as a wedge issue. The Democrats had a plan on the table to extend it for a year ..... by adding a surtax to those making over $1 million of 3.5% on top of their already high rate. And while the tax cut extension was only for one year, the surcharge was eternal. But it fits Obama's class warfare reelection nonsense.

I don't think the Dems so much as wanted the increase, as they did hope that the GOP would not go along, and they then had the common folks suffering, because the GOP were "protecting the rich". The GOP hit back by getting the pipeline, and its jobs, in the mix, such that Dems would have to vote for the pipeline now, which they do not want to do. So the 2-month thing was just kicking the can while the Dems refigure the politics on this.

What Obama wants most on this extension, and you can bank it, is for it to stalemate a bit, but with the blame being on the GOP for protecting their rich buddies. He wants that more than he does a solution that has no fanfare.

February is going to be a massive maneuver of the blame-game. Because that is Obama. The inept President. The worst President ever.
 
Dittohead not! said:
I have to admit to an imperfect understanding of this issue.

First, the original tax cut was a Democrat idea, was it not? Cut payroll taxes, which are supposed to have been Social Security taxes, but have been spent on anything and everything for decades, in order to put a few more bucks in the pockets of the middle class and working poor. OK, so far.

Of course, the issue of keeping SS alive while cutting the tax hasn't been addressed.

Then, the Republicans want to extend the tax cuts for a year, while the Democrats want to extend their own idea for two months.

and, finally, they cave and the Democrats get their way, which is to continue the tax cuts they initiated only two months instead of a year.

I must be missing something here.
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Also add that this two month extension is paid for by a brand new PERMANENT fee on new mortgages.
 
Dickieboy said:
They may be but are they getting the full story? Do they know how is this getting paid for SPECIFICALLY? Is this sustainable or are we throwing another log on the debt bonfire? Is it ‘I want what I want now’ to hell with the consequences down the road? Is this the responsible way to address our future or a mere gimmick to pander to the populous? To be sure these decisions have consequences and we must be pragmatic on how we arrive at them.
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Not sure if they know it, but it is being paid for, it is sustainable, and we aren't throwing another log on the debt bonfire. It's no more nor less than a good way to stimulate the economy when stimulus is needed.
 
Eighty Deuce said:
Maybe I can help. This beast that is the payroll-tax cuts was created solely to be used as a wedge issue. The Democrats had a plan on the table to extend it for a year ..... by adding a surtax to those making over $1 million of 3.5% on top of their already high rate. And while the tax cut extension was only for one year, the surcharge was eternal. But it fits Obama's class warfare reelection nonsense.

I don't think the Dems so much as wanted the increase, as they did hope that the GOP would not go along, and they then had the common folks suffering, because the GOP were "protecting the rich". The GOP hit back by getting the pipeline, and its jobs, in the mix, such that Dems would have to vote for the pipeline now, which they do not want to do. So the 2-month thing was just kicking the can while the Dems refigure the politics on this.

What Obama wants most on this extension, and you can bank it, is for it to stalemate a bit, but with the blame being on the GOP for protecting their rich buddies. He wants that more than he does a solution that has no fanfare.

February is going to be a massive maneuver of the blame-game. Because that is Obama. The inept President. The worst President ever.
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Well, if you REALLY believe that BS, then you might as well start calling the Wall Street Journal, Mitch McConnell, John McCain, 39 GOP Senators, and even Karl Rove Obama supporters. LOL.
 
If Boehner hadn't caved the GOP would almost certainly have lost control of the house in 2012. Even with him caving, he has done substantial damage to the GOP. I just can't even comprehend how he could have been so boneheaded...
 
The Democrats didn't force the Republican House to reverse itself, it was the Republicans in the Senate, the Party "establishment" and their home constituents who read them the "riot act."

Leave it to the Republicans in the House to breathe new life in Democrat campaign for 2012.
 
danarhea said:
I wouldn't call that caving. I would say that, for a change, they are being reasonable.

Article is here.
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what? the two month "extension" is an irresponsible piece of crap. the House sent up a one-year option, which is what the President wanted, and what apparently both sides felt was called for.

THIS however, is a twisted joke. What employer is going to alter his hiring practices based on two thirds of a single quarter of a year, which comes with increased costs in complexity and difficulty in reporting? And for this we are raiding Social Security, weak as it already is?!?

Responsibility? Ask the party that hasn't proposed or passed a budget for two years, much less demonstrated the ability to simply pass a piece of paper saying "oh yeah, the payroll tax cut for one more year (or more. whether we keep it or get rid of it, employers need predictability), and this is how we pay for it".
 
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Dittohead not! said:
I have to admit to an imperfect understanding of this issue.

First, the original tax cut was a Democrat idea, was it not? Cut payroll taxes, which are supposed to have been Social Security taxes, but have been spent on anything and everything for decades, in order to put a few more bucks in the pockets of the middle class and working poor. OK, so far.
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meh. it gives people piddling sums in return for weakening social security, and not increasing hiring. woopee.

Of course, the issue of keeping SS alive while cutting the tax hasn't been addressed.
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though by de-linking taxes with benefits, the Democrats may have made a strategic error.

Then, the Republicans want to extend the tax cuts for a year, while the Democrats want to extend their own idea for two months.
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this is incorrect. Both Republicans and Democrats wanted to extend it for a year (Obama has now called for 4 years). Democrats, however, can't figure out how to pay for it in a manner that can pass even the Senate, and Republicans passed a year long bill in the House, but tied it to making the President decide yea or nay on the Keystone pipeline. So democrats punted the can down the road for two months (we'll be having this conversation again at the end of February).

both parties have managed to lose, though Obama wins.
 
danarhea said:
Well, if you REALLY believe that BS, then you might as well start calling the Wall Street Journal, Mitch McConnell, John McCain, 39 GOP Senators, and even Karl Rove Obama supporters. LOL.
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LOL ... and the current two month extension does what ? Keeps it an issue for the election, to unfold again in an attempt by the Dems if Feb to pin the blame tail to the GOP. Have you ever seen a two-month tax cut bill such as this before ?

All Boehner was doing was putting the House GOP on record for the Feb fight.

Watch an learn.
 
AdamT said:
Nah, it's actually a game changer. It's the first time the Democrats had the balls to call Boehner's bluff, and he folded big time.

In the meantime, Obama is polling better and better against both of the Republican frontrunners....
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BS. Two weeks ago it was Obama who was demanding a full one year extension of the tax holiday bill.

Dems were simply looking for a campaign issue. The full one year extension will be in place soon. They could have hammered out the full year extension easily before the end of the year if they weren't playing politics.
 
Gill said:
BS. Two weeks ago it was Obama who was demanding a full one year extension of the tax holiday bill.

Dems were simply looking for a campaign issue. The full one year extension will be in place soon. They could have hammered out the full year extension easily before the end of the year if they weren't playing politics.
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And the blame game continues.

The short-term extension was a compromise to buy time for more negotiations. In other words, it's better than nothing. Blaming the Dems for it, after the pathetic showing by House Republicans this week, is laughable. Even they have stopped trying. You would be smart to follow their lead.
 
misterman said:
And the blame game continues.

The short-term extension was a compromise to buy time for more negotiations. In other words, it's better than nothing. Blaming the Dems for it, after the pathetic showing by House Republicans this week, is laughable. Even they have stopped trying. You would be smart to follow their lead.
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LOL ... nothing "pathetic" here. As I noted in a concurrent thread on this, Boehner made what is known in the Military as a "Demonstration".

Obama needs to make Febraury a big mess. The goal of the original payroll tax cut is to be a wedge issue for Obama. To prop up the class-envy issue. Just like the Occutard astro-turf. The goal by the Dems for Feb is to make a mess. Obama must have the populace blaming the GOP for protecting the rich.

So Boehner demonstrated. 2-3 days of being sure to have it on record that Obama did not want to get a one year deal so that the problem would be "solved already" when the blame mud is slung in February. Cantor even made the crack that Obama could bring his dog to negotiations. That line serves but one purpose. To be remembered. ;)
 
misterman said:
The short-term extension was a compromise to buy time for more negotiations. In other words, it's better than nothing. Blaming the Dems for it, after the pathetic showing by House Republicans this week, is laughable. Even they have stopped trying. You would be smart to follow their lead.
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It may have been but I believe if Reid had promoted the conference and expedited it some a compromise could have been reached by the end of the year for a full year of tax cuts. The two bills are not that far apart at the core (Keystone, UI, doc fix and funding). As I have said previously the fringe issues (drug testing, GED/training, SS# for ill aliens) in the House bill should and would have been acquiesced. IMO the Senate proposed the short term extension compromise to get home for the holidays and nothing more.
 
Boehner's Freudian slip:

"“Why not do the right thing for the American people even though it’s not exactly what we want.”"

That one is going to get airplay on Democratic ads all next year. He sure could have worded his thoughts better. One thing for sure - His days as speaker are numbered.
 
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They shouldn't extend the payroll tax cut. If Democrats really believed it "helps", then they should push for a 0% rate for both employees and employers.
 
They were damned if they did and damned if they didn't. It was a lose/lose situation. was it right to cave? In one way it was, in another it shows weakness and a lack of conviction.
 
Eighty Deuce said:
LOL ... nothing "pathetic" here. As I noted in a concurrent thread on this, Boehner made what is known in the Military as a "Demonstration".

Obama needs to make Febraury a big mess. The goal of the original payroll tax cut is to be a wedge issue for Obama. To prop up the class-envy issue. Just like the Occutard astro-turf. The goal by the Dems for Feb is to make a mess. Obama must have the populace blaming the GOP for protecting the rich.

So Boehner demonstrated. 2-3 days of being sure to have it on record that Obama did not want to get a one year deal so that the problem would be "solved already" when the blame mud is slung in February. Cantor even made the crack that Obama could bring his dog to negotiations. That line serves but one purpose. To be remembered. ;)
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There is a good chance that you are correct, and this plays well into Obama's political agenda. However, he will adequately point out that the GOP IS protecting the rich. It is my understanding that the GOP was trying to package the 1 year deal with the Keystone Oil Line, and debating that issue is what caused the divide. Both sides knew that the 2 month extension is the right thing to do.
 
From Samhaim:
They shouldn't extend the payroll tax cut. If Democrats really believed it "helps", then they should push for a 0% rate for both employees and employers.


How would social security and medicare be funded? Are you suggesting that those programs be stopped?
 
kpt018 said:
It is my understanding that the GOP was trying to package the 1 year deal with the Keystone Oil Line, and debating that issue is what caused the divide. Both sides knew that the 2 month extension is the right thing to do.
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This is incorrect. Both the 1yr and 2mo bills included the Keystone decision. It passed this morning by unanimous consent and still includes the pipeline decision mandate.
 
kpt018 said:
From Samhaim:
They shouldn't extend the payroll tax cut. If Democrats really believed it "helps", then they should push for a 0% rate for both employees and employers.


How would social security and medicare be funded? Are you suggesting that those programs be stopped?
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Now that's a quantum leap in illogic.
 
kpt018 said:
From Samhaim:
They shouldn't extend the payroll tax cut. If Democrats really believed it "helps", then they should push for a 0% rate for both employees and employers.
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Yes. these programs are unconstitutional.


How would social security and medicare be funded? Are you suggesting that those programs be stopped?
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I don't need a nanny state...Maybe you can't manage your own money, but that is not my problem.

j-mac
 
kpt018 said:
There is a good chance that you are correct, and this plays well into Obama's political agenda. However, he will adequately point out that the GOP IS protecting the rich. It is my understanding that the GOP was trying to package the 1 year deal with the Keystone Oil Line, and debating that issue is what caused the divide. Both sides knew that the 2 month extension is the right thing to do.
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Of course he will make it about the GOP and the rich ... that is all the concurrent Occutard astro-turf has been about as well !! This tax cut's sole purpose was to create a new rift in class-envy to exploit. As SS - Medicare - etc is already underfunded, this "tax cut" has no legitimate basis. It has a big illegitimate one though.

kpt018 said:
From Samhaim:
They shouldn't extend the payroll tax cut. If Democrats really believed it "helps", then they should push for a 0% rate for both employees and employers.
Click to expand...
How would social security and medicare be funded? Are you suggesting that those programs be stopped?
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As noted, your re-question lacks logic. If it is OK to cut the already under-funded SS-Medicare funding by 1/3rd, then what is the logic in not essentially cutting it completely ? Clearly we need to restructure virtually our entire budget and tax system, but that is a further issue beyond the shenanigans Obama is trying to pull here.
 
Everyone in D.C. agree's the tax should be extended for the full year. Arguements aside if this is good, everyone has agreed it shoul dbe done. Rather than doing the work to do it, they decided they would rather go on vacation. This should make everyone mad. They've known for a long time the cuts end and a decision had to be made. They had plenty of time to have addressed it.

Once again they decided to not do the hard work. Boehner was right that the 2 month deal was a failure on the part of D.C. but he was stupid for not willing to stand up for that position.
 
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