• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Boehner demands Senate cancel its vacation

They didn't vote on it because it was a nonstarter and everyone, including House Republicans, knew it.

No, they didn't vote on it because they didn't want their constituents to know how they would vote on it. If Reid was honest, he would allow a vote and let the members of the Senate decide whether they wanted it passed or not.
 
I really don't get this argument anymore. Can someone explain how reducing Social Security and Medicare's funding by 16% is a good thing?
 
No, they didn't vote on it because they didn't want their constituents to know how they would vote on it. If Reid was honest, he would allow a vote and let the members of the Senate decide whether they wanted it passed or not.

That had nothing to do with it. Senate Dems made no secret of the fact that the House bill was unacceptable. Reid and McConnell knew that they were not going to be able to hammer out a long-term compromise before the holiday recess, so they sensibly passed a two-month extension that had near-unanimous support from both parties. McConnel was so pleased he was actually seen high-fiving one of his Republican colleagues.
 
no, a conference does NOT have to held. the bill could simply be presented for a vote, period.

Wow, you're quick.....:roll: The bill has to be voted down before a conference committee is called.

Of course they don't have to take it to conference if the bills differ. They only have to take it to the conference committee if they want the bill to become law, or one of the sides has to accept the other body's bill as originally written.

.
 
I really don't get this argument anymore. Can someone explain how reducing Social Security and Medicare's funding by 16% is a good thing?

They aren't reducing funding. The tax cuts are offset by other means and the offsetting revenue is directed to be paid into the appropriate trust funds.
 
That had nothing to do with it. Senate Dems made no secret of the fact that the House bill was unacceptable. Reid and McConnell knew that they were not going to be able to hammer out a long-term compromise before the holiday recess, so they sensibly passed a two-month extension that had near-unanimous support from both parties. McConnel was so pleased he was actually seen high-fiving one of his Republican colleagues.

The Senators were obviously mistaken.

If you think that Reid doesn't hold up legislation because his members are afraid that their constituents will see their shenanigans, I've got a bridge for sale you need to look at.
 
The Senators were obviously mistaken.

If you think that Reid doesn't hold up legislation because his members are afraid that their constituents will see their shenanigans, I've got a bridge for sale you need to look at.

Not saying it doesn't happen, but that's not what happened in this case. If Senate Democrats voted for the House bill their constituents would have been angry as hell. IOW, your assertion makes no sense.
 
Not saying it doesn't happen, but that's not what happened in this case. If Senate Democrats voted for the House bill their constituents would have been angry as hell. IOW, your assertion makes no sense.

You really believe Manchin's and Baucus's constituents would have been angry ???

Be honest.
 
You really believe Manchin's and Baucus's constituents would have been angry ???

Be honest.

The vast majority of Democrats would be furious if their Senator voted for that POS House bill. If you claim to be honest you will have to acknowledge that. Manchin and Baucus could have voted for it if they wanted to. :shrug:
 
Let's not forget that the Senate passed this bill by an overwhelming majority--89-10. This means that even the majority of Republicans were on board with it.

Now this. Normally I don't wish this, but I hope the Senate goes on vacation until at least New Year's. They passed the bill, and while it wasn't a great one, at least they passed it. Meanwhile, Boehner has decided to plunge the House into a circus show. And he's already taking a hit for it politically.
 
The vast majority of Democrats would be furious if their Senator voted for that POS House bill. If you claim to be honest you will have to acknowledge that. Manchin and Baucus could have voted for it if they wanted to. :shrug:

Senators have to, or at least should, vote for all their constituents, not just Dems.

How could they have voted for the House bill. It was never allowed to come before the Senate by Reid.
 
Let's not forget that the Senate passed this bill by an overwhelming majority--89-10. This means that even the majority of Republicans were on board with it.

Now this. Normally I don't wish this, but I hope the Senate goes on vacation until at least New Year's. They passed the bill, and while it wasn't a great one, at least they passed it. Meanwhile, Boehner has decided to plunge the House into a circus show. And he's already taking a hit for it politically.

The House passed their bill too. What's the fact that the Senate passed their version have to do with anything? It takes two to tango.
 
No, they didn't vote on it because they didn't want their constituents to know how they would vote on it. If Reid was honest, he would allow a vote and let the members of the Senate decide whether they wanted it passed or not.

Except it was the HOUSE that didn't have a roll call vote. The Senate did have a roll call vote (and 39 Republicans voted Yes by the way). So it's Boehner being dishonest, right?
 
Senators have to, or at least should, vote for all their constituents, not just Dems.

How could they have voted for the House bill. It was never allowed to come before the Senate by Reid.

Again, you are making crap up.

The Senate voted first. Reid didn't disallow the House bill from coming for a vote.
 
The Senate has adjourned, that's why.

yes they have. Before finishing their work. Good job.
Part of the budget process is for the House and Senate to reconcile when bills have differences.
 
Wow, you're quick.....:roll: The bill has to be voted down before a conference committee is called.

Of course they don't have to take it to conference if the bills differ. They only have to take it to the conference committee if they want the bill to become law, or one of the sides has to accept the other body's bill as originally written.

.

you are correct, i don't believe i read your post right.
 
After reading this entire thread, I think there are a few things that need to be clarified.

1. The original bill that came out of the House was H.R. 3630. This bill would have done 5 things:

a) extend the payroll tax cut for all 12-months of 2012.
b) extend unemployment benefits for the full year, 2012.
c) paid for the payroll tax cut extension by closing some tax loopholes on millionaires and pay imposing a fee on first-time home buyers under Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac loan guarantee programs.
d) give the President 60-days to determine if he would approve the KeystoneXL pipeline project under the September 2008 permit and the August 2011 environmental impact study. If approved, up to four EPA regulations dealing with boilers and approved in March of this year would be suspended. (Have no idea what boilers have to do with the pipeline, but that's Congress for you...sticking stuff in legislation where it really doesn't belong).

2. H.R. 3630 was passed by the House and sent to the Senate, whereby the Senate decided to table the bill and instead vote on an amended bill, S. Amdt 1465 which only included:

a) 60-day review period for the President to approve KeystoneXL pipeline w/same caveats as HR 3630.
b) extend payroll tax cut for 60-days

3. House receives S. Amdt 1465 and rejects it presumably because Tea Party Republicans wanted the payroll tax cut extended for the full year.

Now, here's the thing...

Most people believe this payroll tax extension argument is nothing more than a redherring. You would be right. To that, I have to give tessaesque, AdamT and 00timh credit. IMO, they've come closest to figuring out the real deal behind all the political wrangling than anyone else. Truth is, the way HR 3630 was structured was a ploy by House Republicans but botched by Sen. McConnell.

Speaker Boehner wanted H.R. 3630 to pass because it would have done two things for the image of the Republican party:

1) Showed they weren't just for tax cuts for the wealthy, but that they could be compassionate towards the working-class as well.
2) Box the President into making a choice: Accept a bill that contained the payroll tax cut for the full-year OR follow through on his veto threat against any legislation that contained a provision on authorizing the KeystoneXL pipeline.

Sen. McConnell screwed him by ensuring that Sen. Reid and the Dems would not receive the super majority vote needed to pass HR 3630. So, instead he agrees with Reid to approve the amended bill, S. Amdt 1465 assuming the House would pass it.

Boehner initially voices his okay, but then recants once he learns that GOP Tea Partiers were against a 60-day stopgap measure on extending the payroll tax cut. Now, here's where the Republican leadership screwed themselves out of a moral victory...

Political end-fighting. In truth, McConnell's S. Amdt 1465 was toxic for the President. Either he approves it and accept the pipeline project or he rejects it and cost middle-class taxpayers a tax cut. (Anyone really think the 60-day payroll tax extension wouldn't have been extended for the full-year had the President accepted the pipeline project?) But there's more to this than most people would ordinarily consider. To that, I give credit to Gill. He's the only one who grasped the "process" associated with sending HR 3630 as well as S. Amdt 1465 up for a vote. In seeking a conference, Boehner (and Cantor) hoped to achieve gridlock on HR 3630 (which I'm sure they would have since the bill passed with very little Democrat support) and force the President to get involved in negotiations. The idea being to try to paint the President as inaffectual. Why do you think Boehner has been insisting that the President recall Congress in session? Problem here is the President can only call Congress back into session under "extraordinary occasions" per Art 2, Sect 3 of the U.S. Constitution. Thus, the question becomes: "Does extending the payroll tax cut meet the test of an 'extraordinary occasion'"?

This entire ordeal has turned out better for the President and much worse for Republicans. Not only does it illustrate that Boehner still doesn't have full control over the GOP in the House, it also shows that the Republican leadership moreso than the President are, in fact, playing politics.

Bottom Line: The GOP wound up tripping over their own feet on this one in their attempt to back the President into a corner. The stupid part is he was ready to capitulate on behalf of the middle-class...or was he?

You can review the vote count and both bills, HR 3630 and S. Amdt 1465 at GovTrack.us

EDIT: Just thought I'd add this quote from danarhea from the thread.

And of course, although I disagree with Obama on a lot of things, sometimes strongly, I have to say that he is right on this one. After all, Speaker Boehner originally kicked this over to the Senate, demanding that Democrats compromise. Democrats in the Senate DID compromise to the extent that the unemployment tax bill passed the Senate with a LOT of Republican support. When it came back to the House, Boehner could not keep the extremists in his party in line, and the compromise failed. I can't fault Boehner for attempting to kick this back to the Senate, and demand more compromises again, even though GOP Senators managed to already extract compromises. Boehner is over a barrel, and his leadership is weak. In the end, almost all of the House Republicans revolted against the bipartisan Senate plan, which was endorsed by no less than Mitch McConnell himself.

Now, instead of forcing Obama's hand, as they hoped to do, House Republicans have put themselves in the hot seat, because the failure here is certainly going to be a red meat issue for Obama and the Democratic party in 2012. When you only hold one House and not the Presidency, "my way or the highway" is not going to work. This was a serious miscalculation on the part of House Republicans, who will suffer consequences for their actions next year. This can still be avoided. Don't attempt to call Obama's bluff. Just go back into session and pass the damn thing. You will look like heroes if you do, and goats if you don't.

Article is here.
 
Last edited:
Link

Time for the Senate to get their lardasses back to work. :lol:
The Senate on Dec. 17 passed the temporary tax-cut legislation by a vote of 89-10 -- with the support of 39 Republicans, among them Minority Leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky. Yesterday the Republican-controlled House rejected the bipartisan Senate plan, which also extended unemployment benefits.

While the House Republicans’ position may play well with the Tea Party voting base, it hurts their image with the broader public, said Jennifer Duffy, a Senate analyst at the nonpartisan Cook Political Report.

“I don’t think Senate Republicans look all that bad here, but I think House Republicans sure do,” said Duffy. “And I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Senate guys just sort of throw them over the side.”

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-...se-risk-for-house-and-senate-republicans.html
If the Boehner and the House intended to defeat the "temporary tax-cut legislation," perhaps somebody should have at least consulted with Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, and the 38 other "lardass" Republican senators, before they voted for it.

The GOP can't have it both ways, a majority of Senate Republicans support the bill, followed by a majority of House Republicans defeating the same bill.

This isn't just a Republican/Democrat confrontation, as our conservative "friends" would like to characterize it.

This reveals an open split within the GOP whereby the majority of House Republicans are repudiating the actions of a majority of Senate Republicans - over a compromise bill that Minority Leader McConnell helped negotiate!
 
Last edited:
yes they have. Before finishing their work. Good job.
Part of the budget process is for the House and Senate to reconcile when bills have differences.

Please read through the thread before you comment.
 
They invest it into companies that use the money to grow. I am sure they put some into commodities, but I would think investing would be the right answer.

Then you'd be wrong. They aren't investing their money - at least, not in the US
 
It was well within the powers of the Republicans in the House to have voted and passed their own version of the payroll-tax extension and then have the 2 pieces of legislation reconciled.

Obviously, the Republicans in the House have a different political agenda their GOP counterparts in the Senate!
 
Last edited:
Except it was the HOUSE that didn't have a roll call vote. The Senate did have a roll call vote (and 39 Republicans voted Yes by the way). So it's Boehner being dishonest, right?

H.R.3630: Temporary Payroll Tax Cut Continuation Act of 2011 - U.S. Congress - OpenCongress

That doesn't look like the result of good compromising. That looks like voting mostly on party lines.

If our taxes go up on New Year's Day, it will be 100% on John Boehner and the House Republicans. Even Mitch McConnell knew better than to take that hit.
 
Back
Top Bottom