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Census shows 1 in 2 people are poor or low-income

TurtleDude said:
wow that is some serious hatred of america there
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Lets see if I have this correct you think that Wall Street is code for America? I think I have probably told you that I do not hate any thing or any one, hatred is a terrible burden to carry around, hatred only empowers those who it is directed at.

Wall Street is nothing more then one huge ponzi scheme play ground for the rich, take it away and you prevent the rich from stealing from the middle class, the poor and the elderly. Take it away and maybe we will be able to elect some politicians that are not in bed with Wall Street.
 
American said:
You think Wall Street is up the creek now, just wait till you mess with Capital Gains.
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Like how horrible it was in the 90's before the Capital gains tax break for the rich? The horror!!!!!
 
TurtleDude said:
I don't need sympathy
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You appear to have some kind of mental disconnect in your conflicting statements here.



TurtleDude said:
that is why we need a tax system where the parasites cannot vote up the rates on the producers without suffering a like hike themselves
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Do you know what this looks like to others?
 
Best part is that conservatives have been going wild about Obama supposedly calling Americans lazy. But now half of Americans are low income and the traditional conservative line is that pretty much every single one of those people could be rich right now but have just been too damned lazy to work their way to the top.

So what is it conservatives? Tell me why you don't think half of those people are just making excuses. Of course conservatives think its legitimate to make excuses about the government for being to cowardly and greedy to hire. But conservatives will call you lazy for not risking your whole financial well being by not starting up a company in order to become rich. Its always convenient that only those who are already rich are ever allowed to complain.
 
For those of you on the conservative side..... I would like to ask you a simple question...

I doubt any of you will answer, because once you do you will realize that none of your policies support your answer.

here is the question...

What is the desired output of our economic system?
 
Swit said:
For those of you on the conservative side..... I would like to ask you a simple question...

I doubt any of you will answer, because once you do you will realize that none of your policies support your answer.

here is the question...

What is the desired output of our economic system?
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Wealth. Now go back to school and impress your high school teachers with your newfound knowledge.
 
Meathead said:
Wealth. Now go back to school and impress your high school teachers with your newfound knowledge.
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Awesome.... I'm down with that.... lets re-institute slavery..... that has been proven time and again to be a HUGE wealth generation tool.... or do you disagree?
 
Meathead said:
Wealth. Now go back to school and impress your high school teachers with your newfound knowledge.
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More condescendingness and you actually didn't say anything of use there. That's impressive!

TurtleDude said:
you seem confused, the reason why I worked hard, made top grades, went to top schools and earned top degrees is so I wouldn't have to. and I am not responsible for anyone being poor so WTF do I have a duty to take care of their problems?

especially since so many of them are unwilling to make any effort to take care of themselves
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No it's because your mom and dad paid for it. LOL

Really, TD? Harvard is such an insider group, it's almost not impressive when people get accepted there anymore. It's more related to Daddy and his Daddy than it is to you.

TurtleDude said:
why do you keep spewing your envy of those who do better than you?

Most losers support taxes on those who do better than them

doesn't make that right

that is why we need a tax system where the parasites cannot vote up the rates on the producers without suffering a like hike themselves
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TurtleDude said:
I don't need sympathy I am not dependent on others

and your silly rants about finding pictures how rough the rich are having it are just plain stupid.

the existence of so many parasites are taxing enough on the rich
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TurtleDude said:
that has no relevance just as your rants about the poor have no relevance. I haven't made anyone poor and thus I have no moral responsibility to be taxed more to salve the butt hurt whining of the envious who pretend that their desires for higher taxes actually is designed to help the poor

The poor in this country are used by envious lefties much like the palestinian refugees are used by rich Arab robber barons. The envious lefties use the poor to bash the rich while the palestinians are used by the robber barons to bash the Israelis

in both cases the bashers pretend they care about the downtrodden but their actions prove quite the opposite
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TurtleDude said:
I oppose most government welfare programs for several reasons

1) most are not proper constitutionally if they are run by the federal government

2) they are usually designed to buy the votes for the politicians who push them rather than to actually help the poor

3) they tend to create people who become addicted to entitlements and who then continue to vote for the politicians who take from us to give to the addicts

4) subsidizing dependency increases dependency

I much prefer private charity which is far less likely to be abused and is not intended to benefit pimps known as politicians
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Is it possible, by chance, that TD is the reincarnation of Ebenezer Scrooge himself?

scrooge.jpg
 
whysoserious said:
I believe you. I once took a personal finance class that delved into that world, but I do not know if I (or most people) are disciplined enough to do what you do. It requires not only being thrifty, but being somewhat intelligent about things as well, being prepared beforehand (having water with you when you are out to drink or packing your own lunches), and just cutting all frivolous spending to bare essentials. I think most people don't even realize how much money they spend on miscellaneous items, but either way, $30k is not a fantastic salary and I would consider it near the poverty level.
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It's a crappy wage, but I hope to make more in the near future.
The job market here is looking up.
 
Between Whyso and Swit on just this page, I can't help but think they are trolling to make liberals look silly. If it is so, I do not approve. Political debate with unknown persons should not be conducted in this way. I have met many liberals who can hold their own in political discourse, but asking questions like, "What is the desired output of our economic system?" and then when answered with the obvious, become petulant - "Awesome.... I'm down with that.... lets re-institute slavery..... that has been proven time and again to be a HUGE wealth generation tool.... or do you disagree?"

If I am wrong, then infer what you will. If, on the other hand, my suspicions are right, I prefer political dialog without mendacity.
 
j-mac said:
Just because fraud has not been vigorously prosecuted, doesn't mean that it isn't prolific in the US. Just ask gov. Walker.

J-mac

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
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You have to present at least some evidence of it being prolific. Though I do remember Bush receiving more votes in one Ohio town than there were residents. Hummmmm???? :coffeepap
 
Catawba said:
Like how horrible it was in the 90's before the Capital gains tax break for the rich? The horror!!!!!
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I find this sort of ranting funny

everyone got capital gains tax breaks.. What is hilarious is that the wealth bashers whine about a tax break based on the rich using it rather than the break itself while ignoring the fact that everyone got the break

your real hurt is over the rich apparently
 
Meathead said:
Between Whyso and Swit on just this page, I can't help but think they are trolling to make liberals look silly. If it is so, I do not approve. Political debate with unknown persons should not be conducted in this way. I have met many liberals who can hold their own in political discourse, but asking questions like, "What is the desired output of our economic system?" and then when answered with the obvious, become petulant - "Awesome.... I'm down with that.... lets re-institute slavery..... that has been proven time and again to be a HUGE wealth generation tool.... or do you disagree?"

If I am wrong, then infer what you will. If, on the other hand, my suspicions are right, I prefer political dialog without mendacity.
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Trolling as in:

1) I relay how much my girlfriend makes per year and say that we aren't cruising by and not really saving anything right now
2) Or was it when I talked with HG about when I was earning about what he made and how difficult I found that as well?

Meanwhile you have now accused me of trolling, whining, asking for government assistance, and being lazy. If anyone is trolling sir, it is you, because you continue to make ridiculous assumptions and then walk away without proving them.

TurtleDude said:
I find this sort of ranting funny

everyone got capital gains tax breaks.. What is hilarious is that the wealth bashers whine about a tax break based on the rich using it rather than the break itself while ignoring the fact that everyone got the break

your real hurt is over the rich apparently
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Nobody but the wealthy benefit from capital gains, in reality - sorry man.
 
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whysoserious said:
More condescendingness and you actually didn't say anything of use there. That's impressive!



No it's because your mom and dad paid for it. LOL

Really, TD? Harvard is such an insider group, it's almost not impressive when people get accepted there anymore. It's more related to Daddy and his Daddy than it is to you.









Is it possible, by chance, that TD is the reincarnation of Ebenezer Scrooge himself?

View attachment 67120137
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want to compare what you do for charity compared to me? then we will see who actually cares about fellow man more. Of course we won't visit your tax bill vs mine
 
whysoserious said:
Total income for a family of four? Keep in mind, that's the highest level of "low income" as well - so anything past that is lower-middle class. My gf makes $40,000 a year and we are barely able to afford a 2 bedroom apartment in Charlotte, NC.
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Sorry, I forgot about this. So you're not a troll?:)

Ok, I guess this depends on your definition of whining. But if you are a troll, then in fairness knock it off. We really don't need any help.
 
Meathead said:
Sorry, I forgot about this. So you're not a troll?:)

Ok, I guess this depends on your definition of whining. But if you are a troll, then in fairness knock it off. We really don't need any help.
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Whining? I just said we find it to be difficult to afford a 2 bedroom apartment in Charlotte, NC on $40k a year. Where is the whining? Listen guy, I earned $0 in income this year, so if I wanted to be on the government dole, I could have been. Unfortunately, you weren't quite bright enough to piece that together, eh Meathead?
 
whysoserious said:
Whining? I just said we find it to be difficult to afford a 2 bedroom apartment in Charlotte, NC on $40k a year. Where is the whining? Listen guy, I earned $0 in income this year, so if I wanted to be on the government dole, I could have been. Unfortunately, you weren't quite bright enough to piece that together, eh Meathead?
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I just found one for Charlotte that is 2 bedrooms with 1 bath for 479/mo. That's extremely doable on 40k a year.
 
Samhain said:
I just found one for Charlotte that is 2 bedrooms with 1 bath for 479/mo. That's extremely doable on 40k a year.
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LOL where!? You're probably going to get shot if it's east or west Charlotte. That's funny.

I'm going to need a link on that one.
 
TurtleDude said:
I find this sort of ranting funny

everyone got capital gains tax breaks.. What is hilarious is that the wealth bashers whine about a tax break based on the rich using it rather than the break itself while ignoring the fact that everyone got the break

your real hurt is over the rich apparently
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Turtle, you are too smart and too well educated to not realize the actual situation here. Yes indeed, everybody can share in those discriminatory and preferential capital gains rates AS LONG AS THEY HAVE SIGNIFICANT AMOUNTS OF FREE CASH TO PURCHASE THEM. So right off the bat, large numbers of Americas, probably a majority of working Americans, have no real access to such things in a practical pragmatic sense. And I strongly suspect you alread know that.

Second, it matters little who gets the break in theory when in actuality it is the upper income people who actually take it and use it to avoid taxation at the higher levels. I also suspect you are too well educated not to realize that too.

Third, every time this is mentioned, you scream about these things buy you never ever have come up with a good reason why there should be preferential and discriminatory lowered capital gains tax rates in the first place.

Do you have something to present on that matter today?
 
haymarket said:
Turtle, you are too smart and too well educated to not realize the actual situation here. Yes indeed, everybody can share in those discriminatory and preferential capital gains rates AS LONG AS THEY HAVE SIGNIFICANT AMOUNTS OF FREE CASH TO PURCHASE THEM. So right off the bat, large numbers of Americas, probably a majority of working Americans, have no real access to such things in a practical pragmatic sense. And I strongly suspect you alread know that.

Second, it matters little who gets the break in theory when in actuality it is the upper income people who actually take it and use it to avoid taxation at the higher levels. I also suspect you are too well educated not to realize that too.

Third, every time this is mentioned, you scream about these things buy you never ever have come up with a good reason why there should be preferential and discriminatory lowered capital gains tax rates in the first place.

Do you have something to present on that matter today?
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There are two issues you merge

1) the desire of many to soak the rich of more income

2) the different treatment of different types of income under the tax system

#2 is capable of being fairly discussed without infecting it with #1. the merits of the government taking less a percentage of LONG TERM capital gains than earned income has nothing to do with which income strata has the most LTCG
 
TurtleDude said:
There are two issues you merge

1) the desire of many to soak the rich of more income

2) the different treatment of different types of income under the tax system

#2 is capable of being fairly discussed without infecting it with #1. the merits of the government taking less a percentage of LONG TERM capital gains than earned income has nothing to do with which income strata has the most LTCG
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Well then, lets discuss it as you want to divorced from #1.
 
haymarket said:
Turtle, you are too smart and too well educated to not realize the actual situation here. Yes indeed, everybody can share in those discriminatory and preferential capital gains rates AS LONG AS THEY HAVE SIGNIFICANT AMOUNTS OF FREE CASH TO PURCHASE THEM. So right off the bat, large numbers of Americas, probably a majority of working Americans, have no real access to such things in a practical pragmatic sense. And I strongly suspect you alread know that.
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Not really trying to jump in the middle of this, but haymarket, I believe more people benefit from this than you give credit. Most working Americans have some sort of retirement plan or if you are really lucky a pension. Depending on how that money is invested, and the type of fund you choose, the capital gains tax can critically impact you. Even worse, if it goes up and you weren't ready for retirement, you can lose more money by waiting for retirement. Again, this is all dependent on how your retirement is invested.

I am just pointing out that it impacts more Americans than you gave credit for.
 
Blue_State said:
Not really trying to jump in the middle of this, but haymarket, I believe more people benefit from this than you give credit. Most working Americans have some sort of retirement plan or if you are really lucky a pension. Depending on how that money is invested, and the type of fund you choose, the capital gains tax can critically impact you. Even worse, if it goes up and you weren't ready for retirement, you can lose more money by waiting for retirement. Again, this is all dependent on how your retirement is invested.

I am just pointing out that it impacts more Americans than you gave credit for.
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I believe this article will shed some illumination on the issue.

Capital Gains and Dividend Tax Cuts — Center on Budget and Policy Priorities

a small part of the article

The proportion of those with incomes under $100,000 who receive any capital gains or dividend income is quite small. According to the Tax Policy Center, in 2005, only 12.5 percent of the households earning less than $100,000 received dividend income, and only 6.6 percent received any capital gains income.
Further, focusing on the number of households claiming capital gains and dividend income does not tell the full story; it is much more important to look at the amount of capital gains and dividend income collected by various income groups. Tax Policy Center data for 2005 indicate that the bulk of income from dividends and capital gains flows to high-income households.
Over half — 54 percent — of all capital gains and dividend income flows to the 0.2 percent of households with annual incomes over $1 million. More than three-quarters — 78 percent — of this income goes to those households with income over $200,000, which account for about 3 percent of all households.
In contrast, only 11 percent of capital gains and dividend income goes to the 86 percent of households with incomes of less than $100,000. Only 4 percent of this income flows to the 64 percent of households that have income of less than $50,000.
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Please read the entire article.
 
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Meathead said:
Between Whyso and Swit on just this page, I can't help but think they are trolling to make liberals look silly. If it is so, I do not approve. Political debate with unknown persons should not be conducted in this way. I have met many liberals who can hold their own in political discourse, but asking questions like, "What is the desired output of our economic system?" and then when answered with the obvious, become petulant - "Awesome.... I'm down with that.... lets re-institute slavery..... that has been proven time and again to be a HUGE wealth generation tool.... or do you disagree?"

If I am wrong, then infer what you will. If, on the other hand, my suspicions are right, I prefer political dialog without mendacity.
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This is funny.... you answer snarkily and then go after me for doing the same? Hilarious. But I digress.

First off slavery IS in fact the most efficient and effective way for an individual or organization to generate wealth.... history has shown this model effective time and time again. This is just plain fact. Thus if wealth generation is the sole desired output from our economic system then one would think we should employ the most effective and efficient means to accomplish that goal, i.e. slavery. If wealth generation is NOT the sole desired output from our economic system, then I ask again, what is the desired output? In other words it appears that even you agree that there are other desired outputs aside from "wealth", I am merely asking what those are.
 
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