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Plan B will continue to be offered ONLY behind the counter

Tigger said:
That has less than nothing to do with what we're discussing, Perry. Nothing whatsoever.
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Anyone can develop their own standards for when someone deserves something.
 
Where are the "pro-lifers"? Why are they not condemning Tigger's blatant misogyny? Are they quietly agreeing with him? And if they are, I have even less respect for such cowards who refuse to come clean about their prejudice. At least Tigger is honest about it.
 
Tigger said:
Of course, because that is what's best for their profit margin. All too often in the last two centuries we have looked at the supposed benefits of some new technological or philosophical "advancement" and have not stopped for even a second to look at the moral and societal impact that it will have. Until people and corporations once again develop a social and moral conscience, there need to be layers to ensure that things like this don't just happen.
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Uhh no, because they meet the standard for what is safe to use. Paranoid much? The people who decide what is safe for over the counter sale are not the ones profiting from the particular drug. Come on man, you really think it's up to drug companies to deem what can be sold where?
 
kerussll said:
Uhh no, because they meet the standard for what is safe to use. Paranoid much? The people who decide what is safe for over the counter sale are not the ones profiting from the particular drug. Come on man, you really think it's up to drug companies to deem what can be sold where?
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What is safe for the BODY may be terminal to the SOUL. That's the point I was trying to get at.
 
Phys251 said:
Where are the "pro-lifers"? Why are they not condemning Tigger's blatant misogyny? Are they quietly agreeing with him? And if they are, I have even less respect for such cowards who refuse to come clean about their prejudice. At least Tigger is honest about it.
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Sorry, what was the point I made?
 
SmokeAndMirrors said:
Erm... No, they wouldn't. Artificial hormones are not necessarily as safe of Tylenol, dose for dose. You are aware of what Depo can do to you, just at the regular dose, right? They're pretty darn safe, but being under a doctor's care for the first 2 or 3 months on the pill is really a very good idea.

I think it should stay exactly how it is. And no one is more pro-reproductive rights than me.

I know plenty of women, myself included, who've had extreme reactions to hormonal birth control. Reactions to Plan B usually aren't as bad, because it's not a sustained dose. But seriously, artificial hormones are no joke, and a lot of people have a false impression of their potential side effects.
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What kind of reaction did you have? Birth control pills and especially plan B can make women feel like they have the stomach flu. It's a reaction to the high doses of hormones and works in the same way as pregnant women with morning sickness. I've known a handful of women who can't take them because they just make them feel too sick. There are a higher risk of blood clots, yes, but they are rare. I've never heard of anyone being "under a doctor's care" while starting on birth control pills. They give you the prescription at your appointment and that's it. They don't check up on you, there are no blood level tests. You get the pill and that's it. Exactly as it would be if it were over the counter. There's nothing a doctor tells you about them that your pharmacist at the drug store or a label on the package couldn't.

Tylenol is one of the most benign drugs you can take and absolutely belongs over the counter, but you can destroy your liver if you overdose. Many more people will die from Tylenol than they ever could from birth control pills. Make it over the counter with appropriate warnings on the label about possible side effects.
 
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roguenuke said:
I highly doubt the medical community all feel that birth control or Plan B should be available OTC. The medical community understands better than anyone that there are cases where women could have serious issues, even fatal ones, from taking birth control or Plan B because of certain medical conditions that they have but may not know will cause complications with them taking these things.

As I've said on here before, I cannot take most birth control because of a blood condition I have because it greatly increases my chances of getting blood clots from birth control. I haven't needed Plan B, and really shouldn't need it, so I have no idea if I could take it or not. If I do think I ever need it, it would be nice to have someone available to answer that question for me. But young women might not even think to ask such a question, even if they know they have one of those blood conditions or some other condition that could cause issues. It wouldn't be them lying about it, but if they weren't given good information about it, they certainly may not even think to mention it. But the pharmacist should probably be asking about medical conditions women have and explaining any increased risks that may come from using something with those medical conditions.

For all those who did not know, using most birth control increases your risk of blood clots. It is an insignificant increase for most women. Before I knew anything about the blood condition I have, I took birth control with no complications. But, if you have certain medical conditions, it could be a significant increase. Military doctors will not prescribe most birth control types for me now that they know I have this issue.
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Plan B has been approved by the FDA for over the counter sales. So yes, the medical community agrees that it is safe. To put an age limit on the over the counter sales is rooted solely by people's moral judgment about this drug, not based on any scientific evidence. They are afraid having this drug available to them will make teenage girls suddenly throw caution to the wind and turn into the town slut. Which of course is ridiculous and the same argument for not teaching sex ed in schools. Teenagers are already having sex. And it is actually safer for a teenager to take these drugs than an older woman.
 
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kerussll said:
Plan B has been approved by the FDA for over the counter sales. So yes, the medical community agrees that it is safe. To put an age limit on the over the counter sales is rooted solely by people's moral judgment about this drug. They are afraid having this drug available to them will make teenage girls suddenly throw caution to the wind and turn into the town slut. Which of course is ridiculous. Teenagers are already having sex. And it is actually safer for a teenager to take these drugs than an older woman.
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That there are millions including the president that believe they should be involved in their childrens well being is based only upon your obviously biased ideas?
 
Tigger said:
What is safe for the BODY may be terminal to the SOUL. That's the point I was trying to get at.
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And we should legislate what people can do to their souls of course :lol:perfectly logical.
 
1Perry said:
That there are millions including the president that believe they should be involved in their childrens well being is based only upon your obviously biased ideas?
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By well being, do you mean the withholding of contraceptives? It's not about a safety issue for those parents. They don't want their kids to have sex.
 
kerussll said:
By well being, do you mean the withholding of contraceptives? It's not about a safety issue for those parents. They don't want their kids to have sex.
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Is it your belief that the president is likely to keep his daughters locked up until they are 24 or something?
 
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kerussll said:
What kind of reaction did you have? Birth control pills and especially plan B can make women feel like they have the stomach flu. It's a reaction to the high doses of hormones and works in the same way as pregnant women with morning sickness. I've known a handful of women who can't take them because they just make them feel too sick. There are a higher risk of blood clots, yes, but they are rare. I've never heard of anyone being "under a doctor's care" while starting on birth control pills. They give you the prescription at your appointment and that's it. They don't check up on you, there are no blood level tests. You get the pill and that's it. Exactly as it would be if it were over the counter. There's nothing a doctor tells you about them that your pharmacist at the drug store or a label on the package couldn't.

Tylenol is one of the most benign drugs you can take and absolutely belongs over the counter, but you can destroy your liver if you overdose. Many more people will die from Tylenol than they ever could from birth control pills. Make it over the counter with appropriate warnings on the label about possible side effects.
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When you start a new birth control, you normally come back to the doctor in 3 months to see how you are doing in order to get a long prescription. Even now I only get a year long prescription on my birth control so the gynecologist can make sure I am still doing alright on my medicine each year as well as check for other things wrong. That is being "under a doctor's care"
 
lovetosing4678 said:
When you start a new birth control, you normally come back to the doctor in 3 months to see how you are doing in order to get a long prescription. Even now I only get a year long prescription on my birth control so the gynecologist can make sure I am still doing alright on my medicine each year as well as check for other things wrong. That is being "under a doctor's care"
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Seriously??? I have never heard of having to go back to the doctor after only 3 months for birth control. That must be a real pain for you. I've switched pills more times than I can count, and it would have been a huge waste of time and money to go see the doctor in person every time. What exactly did the doctor do to check you over anyway? Most doctors only prescribe prescriptions for a year, birth control or not, but that's pretty standard for liability reasons.
 
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kerussll said:
Seriously??? I have never heard of having to go back to the doctor after only 3 months for birth control. That must be a real pain for you. I've switched pills more times than I can count, and it would have been a huge waste of time and money to go see the doctor in person every time. What exactly did the doctor do to check you over anyway? Most doctors only prescribe prescriptions for a year, birth control or not, but that's pretty standard for liability reasons.
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I switched birth control 3 times in my life and every time I have had to go back to the doctor. You may just not remember it at this point. You go back after 3 months and then after that it is normally 1 year prescriptions. She just asked if I felt alright and if I had any negative side effects. This has been with 2 different doctors. One of which is a doctor at a VERY large university who I'm sure does this with every patient. You may say its because of my age but people my age would be taking Plan B as well. Are you for offering birth control on the shelves?

Edit: I googled doctor visit and birth control and came up with this article about offering birth control just through seeing a pharmacist. Even in the study, they have a check up after 3 months. It is very common.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4534244/ns/health-womens_health/#.Tuw9SdQS1OE
 
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kerussll said:
Seriously??? I have never heard of having to go back to the doctor after only 3 months for birth control. That must be a real pain for you. I've switched pills more times than I can count, and it would have been a huge waste of time and money to go see the doctor in person every time.
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How can you switch without going to a doctor for a new prescription?
 
kerussll said:
Seriously??? I have never heard of having to go back to the doctor after only 3 months for birth control. That must be a real pain for you. I've switched pills more times than I can count, and it would have been a huge waste of time and money to go see the doctor in person every time. What exactly did the doctor do to check you over anyway? Most doctors only prescribe prescriptions for a year, birth control or not, but that's pretty standard for liability reasons.
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Every time I've gotten birth control (before I found out about my blood condition and even when I got the low dose ones for breast feeding after), I only got the prescription for 3 months.
 
misterman said:
How can you switch without going to a doctor for a new prescription?
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Your doctor can call it in to the pharmacy. There's no point to making an appointment, driving across town, paying a copay just for her to ask me how I'm feeling. A phone call works just as well. I'm glad I have a doctor who doesn't waste my time.
 
kerussll said:
What kind of reaction did you have? Birth control pills and especially plan B can make women feel like they have the stomach flu. It's a reaction to the high doses of hormones and works in the same way as pregnant women with morning sickness. I've known a handful of women who can't take them because they just make them feel too sick. There are a higher risk of blood clots, yes, but they are rare. I've never heard of anyone being "under a doctor's care" while starting on birth control pills. They give you the prescription at your appointment and that's it. They don't check up on you, there are no blood level tests. You get the pill and that's it. Exactly as it would be if it were over the counter. There's nothing a doctor tells you about them that your pharmacist at the drug store or a label on the package couldn't.

Tylenol is one of the most benign drugs you can take and absolutely belongs over the counter, but you can destroy your liver if you overdose. Many more people will die from Tylenol than they ever could from birth control pills. Make it over the counter with appropriate warnings on the label about possible side effects.
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I had a variety of reactions, some of which are complex and totally anomalous to medical science (which makes it difficult for me to explain them). My reproductive organs are anomalous to medical science pretty much as a rule. So my experiences are not very useful to ascertaining a general trend. I am always an extreme out-lier.

But, some of the more common side effects I had:
1. Severe mood changes that didn't resolve with time - depression and irritability. I don't have noticeable mood changes with my normal cycle, so this was definitely BC-related.
2. Continuous bleeding for over 3 months. I have very strong iron levels, particularly for a women. But I bled to the point of anemia.
3. Weight loss. And weight loss I really couldn't afford - my weight is borderline as it is.

I was on a low-dose pill. I am very, very sensitive to hormonal changes.

Combined with my more mysterious side-effects, my doctors and I both agree that attempting to switch pills or methods was not a solution for me. I needed to stop, period. And my doctors have been furiously debating the cause of my symptoms for going on 6 years now.

I know several women who have reacted badly to hormonal birth control, or certain pills/types. This is really the main purpose of the Nuva Ring, which is the lowest dose hormonal method - to provide something for women who have unacceptably severe side effects from the pill and other hormonal methods. If someone created a product pretty much for this one niche, obviously it's not uncommon and there is demand for it.

Some of the heavier methods, like Depo, the implant, etc have very severe long-term side effects, even when they're well-tolerated. It's recommended that women not stay on Depo for more than 2 years because of this.

Getting prescribed birth control for me involved a verbal evaluation, including family history. I did go back to the doctor, because obviously I had reason to. I think this was about right.

I'm simply saying that reactions to BC are much more common than reactions to Tylenol. Even discounting myself, because of how strange my reaction was, I can still think of lots of women I know who have had bad reactions. But I can't think of a single person in all my life who's had a bad reaction to Tylenol.
 
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kerussll said:
Your doctor can call it in to the pharmacy. There's no point to making an appointment, driving across town, paying a copay just for her to ask me how I'm feeling. A phone call works just as well. I'm glad I have a doctor who doesn't waste my time.
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Ya good thing you have a doctor who doesn't follow conventional methods to keep you healthy. When you start a new pill, a pelvic exam and, I believe, a pregnancy test are typically performed. I would switch doctors if I were you.
 
kerussll said:
Your doctor can call it in to the pharmacy. There's no point to making an appointment, driving across town, paying a copay just for her to ask me how I'm feeling. A phone call works just as well. I'm glad I have a doctor who doesn't waste my time.
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I meant a new prescription to change the drug, or dosage, or whatever, not just a new one to continue the old one. But I guess that wasn't what you meant.
 
SmokeAndMirrors said:
I had a variety of reactions, some of which are complex and totally anomalous to medical science (which makes it difficult for me to explain them). My reproductive organs are anomalous to medical science pretty much as a rule. So my experiences are not very useful to ascertaining a general trend. I am always an extreme out-lier.

But, some of the more common side effects I had:
1. Severe mood changes that didn't resolve with time - depression and irritability. I don't have noticeable mood changes with my normal cycle, so this was definitely BC-related.
2. Continuous bleeding for over 3 months. I have very strong iron levels, particularly for a women. But I bled to the point of anemia.
3. Weight loss. And weight loss I really couldn't afford - my weight is borderline as it is.

I was on a low-dose pill. I am very, very sensitive to hormonal changes.

Combined with my more mysterious side-effects, my doctors and I both agree that attempting to switch pills or methods was not a solution for me. I needed to stop, period. And my doctors have been furiously debating the cause of my symptoms for going on 6 years now.

I know several women who have reacted badly to hormonal birth control, or certain pills/types. This is really the main purpose of the Nuva Ring, which is the lowest dose hormonal method - to provide something for women who have unacceptably severe side effects from the pill and other hormonal methods. If someone created a product pretty much for this one niche, obviously it's not uncommon and there is demand for it.

Some of the heavier methods, like Depo, the implant, etc have very severe long-term side effects, even when they're well-tolerated. It's recommended that women not stay on Depo for more than 2 years because of this.

Getting prescribed birth control for me involved a verbal evaluation, including family history. I did go back to the doctor, because obviously I had reason to. I think this was about right.

I'm simply saying that reactions to BC are much more common than reactions to Tylenol. Even discounting myself, because of how strange my reaction was, I can still think of lots of women I know who have had bad reactions. But I can't think of a single person in all my life who's had a bad reaction to Tylenol.
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This type of thing is why I have changed my mind *GASP* about this and support offering it behind the counter. It really isn't awful going to get medicine from the pharmacy. I think we should get rid of the age limit for it though and make sure pharmacists are well educated in the effects of this medicine. Pharmacists are becoming more like doctors anyways. They should not be able to deny someone the medicine based on their beliefs. Since the medicine is time sensitive and going to another pharmacy might make a difference, it should be illegal for pharmacists to say no.
 
Hey, just think. If Romney (or possibly any other Republican) is elected president, then the morning-after pill could be gone! Because that's killing a fertilized egg, which we all know is a full-grown human.

/has flashbacks of Rachel Maddow's "man talk" explaining how hormonal BC works
 
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