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Plan B will continue to be offered ONLY behind the counter

Henrin said:
While that statement is true its rare anyone interested in politics can use it as an attack on another. How many liberals want to push programs on others for moral reasons even a tax system that really allows the government use its authority of force beyond the punishing violations of rights of another. Sorry, but I understand this is a big argument of pro-choice people in this debate but I have yet to meet one that can actually use it.
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I'm not sure what your point is. I can use the argument that morality is subjective in pretty much any context.

Then again, I'm from a school of thought which states that all laws should be based around the potential for a specific action to infringe upon the rights of another conscious human being. That kind of removes a subjective idea like "morality" from the discussion.
 
Unfortunately people like Tigger do get a say in this matter. If it were up to the medical community, birth control pills and plan B would be made available over the counter. They are perfectly safe. You can kill yourself with tylenol, not so with birth control. There are other reasons they're not available to everyone.
 
lovetosing4678 said:
Obama: Morning-after pill decision 'common sense'


What do you think? Should this pill be allowed to be sold next to the condoms? They are about $50, according to the article, so people most likely wouldn't be buying them as they do condoms. Also, think of how often the pharmacy is often open. I know that sometimes when I have a cold by the time I can get to the store the pharmacy is closed. The sooner you take this pill the more effective it is. So what do you think?
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I'd say it was probably the right decision. It should remain prescription only, due to some possible harmful side effects.
 
It should be available over the counter to help rape victims. Being raped is the most awful thing that could happen to a woman. Imagine having to go through that horrible ordeal and then being forced to bear the child of your rapist. The morning after pill can at least prevent that without the need for an abortion later on. Unfortunately some people think zygote rights take precedence over rape victim rights.
 
kerussll said:
Unfortunately people like Tigger do get a say in this matter. If it were up to the medical community, birth control pills and plan B would be made available over the counter.
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Of course, because that is what's best for their profit margin. All too often in the last two centuries we have looked at the supposed benefits of some new technological or philosophical "advancement" and have not stopped for even a second to look at the moral and societal impact that it will have. Until people and corporations once again develop a social and moral conscience, there need to be layers to ensure that things like this don't just happen.
 
As long as the perscription is attainable, I am satisfied. I don't care if they need to go to a walk in clinic to get it or if they need to consult the pharmacist like you have to do with some other over the counter perscriptions. Other people's morality is not my concern.
 
Tigger said:
Of course, because that is what's best for their profit margin. All too often in the last two centuries we have looked at the supposed benefits of some new technological or philosophical "advancement" and have not stopped for even a second to look at the moral and societal impact that it will have. Until people and corporations once again develop a social and moral conscience, there need to be layers to ensure that things like this don't just happen.
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Morality is purely subjective. Most people (thank whatever god or deity(ies) out there), don't think as you do. I'm very thankful for that. Your type of morality belongs in the dark ages and is no better than radical Muslims.

I'm ok with it being behind the counter as it still makes it available to women.
 
TheNextEra said:
Your type of morality belongs in the dark ages and is no better than radical Muslims.
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I'll take that as a compliment in both cases, since I see both as being much more morally acceptable than what we have in the United States today.
 
Tigger said:
I'll take that as a compliment in both cases, since I see both as being much more morally acceptable than what we have in the United States today.
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Well then feel free to move to any Islamic dominated country. One has to wonder why someone like yourself with such contempt for the U.S. would decide to remain here instead of going to a more "morally acceptable" country like an Islamic controlled one.
 
TheNextEra said:
Well then feel free to move to any Islamic dominated country. One has to wonder why someone like yourself with such contempt for the U.S. would decide to remain here instead of going to a more "morally acceptable" country like an Islamic controlled one.
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Trust me, it has been and will continue to be looked at on a regular basis. There are two main reasons I haven't....

1. I believe that Morality is a higher calling that Religion. Therefore Theocracy is not something I care for.

2. None of those countries that I've been able to find allow for the private ownership of firearms.

3. I keep living in the hope that the US Citizens will soon wake up and take back this country from the immoral lot that has been controlling it for the last century and a half.
 
Tigger said:
3. I keep living in the hope that the US Citizens will soon wake up and take back this country from the immoral lot that has been controlling it for the last century and a half.
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Sorry to burst your bubble, but asside from a small handful of crazies, noone else thinks as you do in the United States. Your type of morality is thankfully dying out and will be gone eventually. Good riddance too.
 
TheNextEra said:
Sorry to burst your bubble, but asside from a small handful of crazies, noone else thinks as you do in the United States. Your type of morality is thankfully dying out and will be gone eventually. Good riddance too.
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You're probably right, and in that moment the United States and humanity as a whole will cease to have any value whatsoever.
 
Tigger said:
Trust me, it has been and will continue to be looked at on a regular basis. There are two main reasons I haven't....


...2. None of those countries that I've been able to find allow for the private ownership of firearms.
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You haven't looked at the laws in the nations. There's no reason to trust your word on this matter

Almost all of the arab nations allow for private ownership of firearms

Global Impact of Gun Violence

For more information on armed violence and gun control in each country and territory, please use the search tools in the left hand column.
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kerussll said:
Unfortunately people like Tigger do get a say in this matter. If it were up to the medical community, birth control pills and plan B would be made available over the counter. They are perfectly safe. You can kill yourself with tylenol, not so with birth control. There are other reasons they're not available to everyone.
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Erm... No, they wouldn't. Artificial hormones are not necessarily as safe of Tylenol, dose for dose. You are aware of what Depo can do to you, just at the regular dose, right? They're pretty darn safe, but being under a doctor's care for the first 2 or 3 months on the pill is really a very good idea.

I know plenty of women, myself included, who've had extreme reactions to hormonal birth control. Reactions to Plan B usually aren't as bad, because it's not a sustained dose. But seriously, artificial hormones are no joke, and a lot of people have a false impression of their potential side effects.

I think it should stay exactly how it is. And no one is more pro-reproductive rights than me.
 
kerussll said:
Unfortunately people like Tigger do get a say in this matter. If it were up to the medical community, birth control pills and plan B would be made available over the counter. They are perfectly safe. You can kill yourself with tylenol, not so with birth control. There are other reasons they're not available to everyone.
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I highly doubt the medical community all feel that birth control or Plan B should be available OTC. The medical community understands better than anyone that there are cases where women could have serious issues, even fatal ones, from taking birth control or Plan B because of certain medical conditions that they have but may not know will cause complications with them taking these things.

As I've said on here before, I cannot take most birth control because of a blood condition I have because it greatly increases my chances of getting blood clots from birth control. I haven't needed Plan B, and really shouldn't need it, so I have no idea if I could take it or not. If I do think I ever need it, it would be nice to have someone available to answer that question for me. But young women might not even think to ask such a question, even if they know they have one of those blood conditions or some other condition that could cause issues. It wouldn't be them lying about it, but if they weren't given good information about it, they certainly may not even think to mention it. But the pharmacist should probably be asking about medical conditions women have and explaining any increased risks that may come from using something with those medical conditions.

For all those who did not know, using most birth control increases your risk of blood clots. It is an insignificant increase for most women. Before I knew anything about the blood condition I have, I took birth control with no complications. But, if you have certain medical conditions, it could be a significant increase. Military doctors will not prescribe most birth control types for me now that they know I have this issue.
 
Tigger said:
See, that is where we will disagree. I (and many others) are of the belief that the moment the egg is fertilized that it IS a life.
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But it's okay to kill such a life if it was created due to a rape?
 
misterman said:
But it's okay to kill such a life if it was created due to a rape?
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Can't say I've ever seen a situation where the woman consented to being raped. There is no need for a woman to be punished for a decision she was not involved in making. Now, for a decision she did make, that's another story entirely.
 
Tigger said:
Can't say I've ever seen a situation where the woman consented to being raped. There is no need for a woman to be punished for a decision she was not involved in making. Now, for a decision she did make, that's another story entirely.
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So, basically, you're view is: it's okay to murder a baby because that baby is no longer useful in punishing adults for the sin of having sex.

Awesome! :roll:
 
At no point should drugs like these be offered over the counter. They radically alter body chemistry to achieve the desired effect, and quite frankly, I think they are dangerous. Course, I'm not gonna say they should be banned or anything, far from it. But I think a LOT of young girls and women take those things with a mindset that is totally oblivious to the harm they are doing to themselves. Make them over the counter, and watch the female youth of this nature hemorage.
 
misterman said:
So, basically, you're view is: it's okay to murder a baby because that baby is no longer useful in punishing adults for the sin of having sex. Awesome! :roll:
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No. My view is that I'm only interested in punishing these people for improper decisions that THEY made themselves, not for decisions which were thrust upon them without their consent.
 
Tigger said:
No. My view is that I'm only interested in punishing these people for improper decisions that THEY made themselves, not for decisions which were thrust upon them without their consent.
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False.

You have made your views clear. You think all fetuses are persons from conception and abortion is therefore equivalent to murder. You think people should be punished for sex if they get pregnant and don't want to. You think abortion (or plan B) should be illegal EXCEPT in cases of rape. You have stated all these things.

Therefore, you believe that it is okay to murder a child if it is the product of rape. That is your logic.
 
Tigger said:
No. My view is that I'm only interested in punishing these people for improper decisions that THEY made themselves, not for decisions which were thrust upon them without their consent.
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She really shouldn't have worn that short skirt.
 
Tigger said:
No. My view is that I'm only interested in punishing these people for improper decisions that THEY made themselves, not for decisions which were thrust upon them without their consent.
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IOW, people should be able to make decisions, unless it's the decision to take Plan B, unless they were raped

And it's wrong to kill a fetus, unless it's the fetus of a good girl who was raped
 
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sangha said:
IOW, people should be able to make decisions, unless it's the decision to take Plan B, unless they were raped

And it's wrong to kill a fetus, unless it's the fetus of a good girl who was raped
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i believe you have just painted him into the corner
 
misterman said:
Therefore, you believe that it is okay to murder a child if it is the product of rape. That is your logic.
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If you're looking for a one-word answer.... YES. Of course the issue isn't that simple, but there you go. You've got your soundbite.


1Perry said:
She really shouldn't have worn that short skirt.
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That has less than nothing to do with what we're discussing, Perry. Nothing whatsoever.
 
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