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Texas Welfare Office Shooting: Mom Denied Food Stamps For Months, Shoots Own Kids

RadicalModerate said:
Guns and ammo last longer than food.

Facebook is free and accessible from any computer or cell phone.
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So she can afford gun, cellphone or computer,internet access and a phone bill but not food? A pack of ramen noodles is a quarter or less.A bag of spaghetti costs around a buck.She also is in the bible belt she couldn't find a charity to feed her. I know in my city we got soup kitchens that feed the homeless, we have John 3:116 that gives food to families, salvation army and all sorts of other charities that aid the less fortunate. Texas doesn't have those things?
 
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jamesrage said:
So she can afford gun, cellphone or computer,internet access and a phone bill but not food? A pack of ramen noodles is a quarter or less.A bag of spaghetti costs around a buck.She also is in the bible belt she couldn't find a charity to feed her. I know in my city we got soup kitchens that feed the homeless, we have John 3:116 that gives food to families, salvation army and all sorts of other charities that aid the less fortunate. Texas doesn't have those things?
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:roll:

Again...guns and ammo last longer than food. She might have bought that gun years ago, when she had some spare money.

Libraries provide free internet access. Or she might have used a friends computer. Or a friends cellphone. Who knows?

I don't know what Texas has. I don't live there. Why don't you calm down?
 
RadicalModerate said:
:roll:

Again...guns and ammo last longer than food. She might have bought that gun years ago, when she had some spare money.

Libraries provide free internet access. Or she might have used a friends computer. Or a friends cellphone. Who knows?

I don't know what Texas has. I don't live there. Why don't you calm down?
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The little girl was updating her facebook status DURING the crisis. That implies, she had a cellphone with HS internet on it.
 
RadicalModerate said:
:roll:

Again...guns and ammo last longer than food. She might have bought that gun years ago, when she had some spare money.
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There are not any pawnshops in her town or someone she could sell her gun to? Last I checked guns are worth money.Unless she had that gun duck taped and jerry rigged its hard to believe that she couldn't get anything for her gun.

Libraries provide free internet access. Or she might have used a friends computer. Or a friends cellphone. Who knows?
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Not unless that welfare office is inside the library.

I don't know what Texas has. I don't live there.
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Texas is in the bible belt.That means lots of charities to help the less fortunate. If her and her family were starving it was because they did not go to any of the local charities.

Emergency Food Assistance
A Listing of Places For Food Pantry Assistance (San Antonio, Center: rent, house) - City-Data Forum
 
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Aunt Spiker said:
Yeah: it's no diferent than anyone else who killed their family due ot financial failure as an individual.
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Except that it is most likely that this woman was a financial failure due to some kind of mental illness.

Which, unfortunately, I think the U.S. is exceptionally bad at dealing with.

If she was able to get some kind of help for her mental illness, maybe she would have been in a better position to take care of herself and her children. Or, at the very least, not be in a position to commit violence against them like she did.
 
tessaesque said:
The article I read the other day stated that she was originally denied due to a lack of necessary paperwork. The case worker scheduled a follow up meeting to discuss this issue but the mother never showed up. That was in AUGUST. In NOVEMBER she charged into the HHS office and held everybody hostage for hours, then tried to kill her children before killing herself.

This woman's issues were entirely her own, and she took her kids down in a fit of (what I have to assume was) psychosis. This is a tragedy for the children, and for the people in that office who were part of the stand-off, and for the police who tried but failed to difuse the situation. For the mother, it is nothing more than bat-**** crazy behavior that might have been prevented had she followed through with the process as originally scheduled.
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I understand your point.

But I also think that another point is that those who are mentally ill can't be trusted to provide the paperwork and the like for that kind of bureaucracy. After all they are mentally ill and don't think in those terms.

So I think a small bit of reform may be necessary to address that particular problem to minimize something like this from happening again.
 
MrVicchio said:
Some blunt thoughts:

Mom couldn't afford food, but had a gun?

The little girl that passed away, for a family in dire straights, how did she have mobile access to facebook but not food?


Sounds more like a mentally unstable woman then a failure of the Food Stamp program to me.
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Yes, but the issue is that the state had an inadequate response to this mentally unstable woman.
 
samsmart said:
I understand your point.

But I also think that another point is that those who are mentally ill can't be trusted to provide the paperwork and the like for that kind of bureaucracy. After all they are mentally ill and don't think in those terms.

So I think a small bit of reform may be necessary to address that particular problem to minimize something like this from happening again.
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Based on their limited contact with this lady how were they to know? The MIL says she/the ex-husband had made reports in other states, but they weren't able to get any information to Texas authorities. Short of requiring a mental health test at the time of application, what could have been done here?
 
jamesrage said:
There are not any pawnshops in her town or someone she could sell her gun to? Last I checked guns are worth money.Unless she had that gun duck taped and jerry rigged its hard to believe that she couldn't get anything for her gun.
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Maybe the gun had the serial number scratched and was unreadable, so the first pawnshop she went to couldn't take it, becasue ofsome obscure Texas state law requiring all serial numbers on handguns to be fully visible in order to sell or trade. So then she was gonna take to another one across town, but she had almost no gas in her tank. So then she used her daughters cellphone to call a friend, but that friend was all like "Oooooh, yeah...I can't drive you down there. I got this thing going on today." And the woman is all like, "Oh yeah, you got a thing? That's cool, I'll just call my aunt to see if she can drive me down...by the way, did you see Ellen yesterday? Oh, it was amazing. She was interviewing a woman who climbed Mount Fairweather in British Columbia, and she only has one leg! Oh my god, it was so inspiring! You have to watch it when you get home? Do you still have DVR? Yeah? Well, you have to watch it the moment you get home! Okay, I'll let you go...uh,huh...yeah...yeah...okay, bye hun!" So then she was gonna call her aunt to give her a ride down to that second pawn shop to sell her gun, but then she realized that her daughters phone doesn't have her aunts phone number on there. So shes all like, "Oh noez! What I am gonna do?" So she drives around town for a few minutes, looking for one of those old phone booths with the Dex book attached to it to see if she can maybe look up her aunt's phone number. So she's trying to find a phonebook, while keeping an eye on the gas gauge, cuz it's really getting low now, when all of a sudden she remembers, she can call 411 on the cellphone to just get her aunt's number that way...
 
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RadicalModerate said:
Maybe the gun had the serial number scratched and was unreadable, so the first pawnshop she went to couldn't take it, becasue ofsome obscure Texas state law requiring all serial numbers on handguns to be fully visible in order to sell or trade. So then she was gonna take to another one across town, but she had almost no gas in her tank. So then she used her daughters cellphone to call a friend, but that friend was all like "Oooooh, yeah...I can't drive you down there. I got this thing going on today." And the woman is all like, "Oh yeah, you got a thing? That's cool, I'll just call my aunt to see if she can drive me down...by the way, did you see Ellen yesterday? Oh, it was amazing. She was interviewing a woman who climbed Mount Fairweather in British Columbia, and she only has one leg! Oh my god, it was so inspiring! You have to watch it when you get home? Do you still have DVR? Yeah? Well, you have to watch it the moment you get home! Okay, I'll let you go...uh,huh...yeah...yeah...okay, bye hun!" So then she was gonna call her aunt to give her a ride down to that second pawn shop to sell her gun, but then she realized that her daughters phone doesn't have her aunts phone number on there. So shes all like, "Oh noez! What I am gonna do?" So she drives around town for a few minutes, looking for one of those old phone booths with the Dex book attached to it to see if she can maybe look up her aunt's phone number. So she's trying to find a phonebook, while keeping an eye on the gas gauge, cuz it's really getting low now, when all of a sudden she remembers, she can call 411 on the cellphone to just get her aunt's number that way...
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When the term grasping at straws was invented they must have been reading your posts. I am surprised you didn't have alien abductions and JFK in your post as the reason she couldn't sell her gun.
 
tessaesque said:
Based on their limited contact with this lady how were they to know? The MIL says she/the ex-husband had made reports in other states, but they weren't able to get any information to Texas authorities. Short of requiring a mental health test at the time of application, what could have been done here?
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Actually, I wouldn't mind a mental health test at the time of application for those who seek welfare.

Most of those who are homeless or unemployed are that way because their mental illness makes it difficult for them to keep a job or perform the other functions of society required to live a normal life. Maybe by requiring mental health tests for those seeking government assistance the government can be more pro-active in providing mental health care for those who need it.
 
Whenever things like this happen - and they're happening quite often (or at least it seems that way). . . the family or ex spouse says "well we knew he/she was ****ed up! I mean - totally a nut waiting to crack!"

:shrug:

Do they REALLY - or is this just with the sake of hindsight . . . .becuase what kind of people are they if they *know* someone is able and willing to do something like this but they fail ot seek help or intervene.

A lot of cases lately have been with single mothers who have custody - or stay at home moms . . . I'm not sure what that means but obviously a lot of women aren't handling things very well. I'd like to know why. And a lot of Dad's aren't involved or aorund - I'd also like to know why.
 
samsmart said:
Yes, but the issue is that the state had an inadequate response to this mentally unstable woman.
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Gotta make the State the Bad Guy, and the woman a victim... just can't let it go can you?
 
MrVicchio said:
Gotta make the State the Bad Guy, and the woman a victim... just can't let it go can you?
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Who cares who is to blame. How would you have resolved this issue before it got this far? That is the problem with people today. Everyone wants to assert blame but nobody wants to offer solutions.
 
Screw the politics. There are two people dead and one tragically injured and scarred for life. This is a sad day, no matter the reason and I am sickened. I pray for that little boy and girl and may God make his own judgement on the mother. I am going to go kiss and hug my sleeping son now.
 
MrVicchio said:
Gotta make the State the Bad Guy, and the woman a victim... just can't let it go can you?
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Well, it does seem as if the woman is, indeed, a victim. It seems that she's a victim of her own mental illness. Which, being mentally ill, she may have little control over.

And she's not the only victim either. So is her two children she shot, one of whom died. And so is the father of those children. And so is the rest of the family of that women and her children.

Now I'm not blaming the state for that woman being mentally ill. But, nevertheless, this is an issue. And it's an issue that can happen again. And it's an issue that's happened before.

And that issue is that we, in the United States, have a number of people who are mentally ill who, because of their mental illness, may be dangers to themselves or to others.

And the question that I think we should ask ourselves is, "What can we do to prevent the mentally ill from harming themselves or others?"

Because mentally ill people aren't just going to go away. Some will always be born mentally ill because of their particular biology. Which they have no control over. And some will always be made because of a confluence of events that cause them to become mentally ill. Which they have little to no control over.

So since I realize that this will always be an issue I can't help but ask what can be done to help mitigate this issue.

Now if you just want to say this is a bat**** nuts crazy lady who killed her children, well, I agree. But just saying that does nothing to help prevent bat**** nuts crazy ladies from killing their children in the future. And if you're okay with that well then so be it.

But I'm not and so I'd like to pursue possible solutions to help provide the things necessary for bat**** nuts crazy ladies to not kill themselves or their children. I do that because I don't want a bat**** nuts crazy lady to kill any of my children. And I would think that you wouldn't want any bat**** nuts crazy ladies to kill any of your children either.

So if you want to continue to ignore the problems of the mentally ill in the U.S. and the effects that they can have not just on themselves but also on others, that's your choice.

But if that's the case then I would like to talk to others here about what could be done to provide aid to the mentally ill in the U.S. who are mentally ill because of things beyond their power who may endanger themselves or me or my loved ones or people I don't even know so that the mentally ill no longer endanger so many others.
 
samsmart said:
Well, it does seem as if the woman is, indeed, a victim. It seems that she's a victim of her own mental illness. Which, being mentally ill, she may have little control over.

And she's not the only victim either. So is her two children she shot, one of whom died. And so is the father of those children. And so is the rest of the family of that women and her children.

Now I'm not blaming the state for that woman being mentally ill. But, nevertheless, this is an issue. And it's an issue that can happen again. And it's an issue that's happened before.

And that issue is that we, in the United States, have a number of people who are mentally ill who, because of their mental illness, may be dangers to themselves or to others.

And the question that I think we should ask ourselves is, "What can we do to prevent the mentally ill from harming themselves or others?"

Because mentally ill people aren't just going to go away. Some will always be born mentally ill because of their particular biology. Which they have no control over. And some will always be made because of a confluence of events that cause them to become mentally ill. Which they have little to no control over.

So since I realize that this will always be an issue I can't help but ask what can be done to help mitigate this issue.

Now if you just want to say this is a bat**** nuts crazy lady who killed her children, well, I agree. But just saying that does nothing to help prevent bat**** nuts crazy ladies from killing their children in the future. And if you're okay with that well then so be it.

But I'm not and so I'd like to pursue possible solutions to help provide the things necessary for bat**** nuts crazy ladies to not kill themselves or their children. I do that because I don't want a bat**** nuts crazy lady to kill any of my children. And I would think that you wouldn't want any bat**** nuts crazy ladies to kill any of your children either.

So if you want to continue to ignore the problems of the mentally ill in the U.S. and the effects that they can have not just on themselves but also on others, that's your choice.

But if that's the case then I would like to talk to others here about what could be done to provide aid to the mentally ill in the U.S. who are mentally ill because of things beyond their power who may endanger themselves or me or my loved ones or people I don't even know so that the mentally ill no longer endanger so many others.
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There is nothing that can be done. Unless you want to make every citizen subject to a mental test every year or every quarter of the year. And even then it cannot always be caught. Oh I suppose we could loosen the restrictions on what it takes to get someone put into a mental ward. Say making it to where only 1 person has to say something and the person they complained about is auto picked up and sent. But some mental people can fool even professionals given the time frame of 24-48 hrs of being kept in the ward. What to do about them?

Point is that sometimes, crap just happens.
 
What is there to say to this that hasnt already been said...so sad that it hurts...rip innocents
 
Kal'Stang said:
There is nothing that can be done. Unless you want to make every citizen subject to a mental test every year or every quarter of the year. And even then it cannot always be caught. Oh I suppose we could loosen the restrictions on what it takes to get someone put into a mental ward. Say making it to where only 1 person has to say something and the person they complained about is auto picked up and sent. But some mental people can fool even professionals given the time frame of 24-48 hrs of being kept in the ward. What to do about them?

Point is that sometimes, crap just happens.
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No, I don't think anything that far should happen. And I don't know if this is done in Texas already, but I think social workers should get training on identifying those who may be mentally ill so something can be done.

I know that in a few places in the U.S. the recession has caused decreased funding to many social programs for the mentally ill. So what a few towns and cities are doing is training their police officers to identify those who may be mentally ill. The reason why is because it's quite easy for the mentally ill to be involved in crimes. And those mentally ill don't deserve to be in a prison. Rather, they need to be in a hospital where they can get treatment for their mental illness.

And, as I said before, I think it would be a good idea to do mental health tests or interviews for those who get welfare since the mentally ill are often homeless and unemployed because they have such a difficult time holding a job because of their mental illness.

So I'm not saying that we have to be oppressive in this. Rather, I'm thinking that maybe we could do more. And if we can do more, what are those things that we can do?
 
LAREDO — The 10-year-old boy who was shot along with his sister by their mother while they were holed up inside a state welfare agency office died Thursday evening, police said.
Investigator Joe E. Baeza, Laredo police spokesman, said Timothy Grimmer died at 5:45 p.m. at University Hospital in San Antonio after his family decided to discontinue life support.


Read more: Laredo boy dies of his wounds - San Antonio Express-News
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RIP young man, and join your sister in the warm embrace of Jesus in Heaven, where your earthly trials are but a bad memory.
 
samsmart said:
Actually, I wouldn't mind a mental health test at the time of application for those who seek welfare.

Most of those who are homeless or unemployed are that way because their mental illness makes it difficult for them to keep a job or perform the other functions of society required to live a normal life. Maybe by requiring mental health tests for those seeking government assistance the government can be more pro-active in providing mental health care for those who need it.
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Maybe, or maybe it would be as hotly contested as requiring drug tests. And, then again, we have the very real tendancy of those with particular mental illness to deny/refuse help and services designed to manage those illnesses. Bipolar/Schizophrenic individuals will often buck the system and fight against receiving care. They'll refuse or lie about taking medication, they'll run from therapy. I don't think we can blame this situation on a break down or lack of mental health services in Texas. With bipolar individuals especially, it can be very hard to see that mental issues exist based on a paper application and a missed interview. I know of no state that requires a mental competency exam for TANF or WIC benefits, so Texas lacking such a test is not unique.

I think if we're going to blame this on any government entity it should be the one that granted this woman custody when she and her husband split. There is enough interaction during those hearings and appearances for somebody to have been able to determine that the woman likely had issues. There were also easily accessible character witnesses to help reinforce that the woman had issues. If it wasn't caught then it seems ridiculous to me to go after HHS in Texas for not catching it on the basis of an unreturned phone call, missed appointment, and incomplete application...which is all the interaction this lady had with them.
 
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