• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

Actually, banks were forced to give loans to many people that should never have gotten home loans.

Really? Can you provide a link to that?

and not one that simply links to having outlawed redlining. That is another issue altogether.
 
In fact it did happen, and repeatedly. You can do the research if you´re interested in the subject but here´s a start.

LiveLeak.com - Obama: Giving loans to people that cant afford them A good Idea!

If you believe the mission (or goal) of the CRA was to give loans to people who could not afford them, there is plenty of data available to present a valid argument on the subject.

Such as this.

Our study suggests that without the CRA, the subprime crisis and related spike in
foreclosures might have negatively impacted even more borrowers and neighborhoods.
Compared to other lenders in their assessment areas, CRA Banks were less likely to make a high
cost loan, charged less for the high cost loans that were made, and were substantially more likely
to eschew the secondary market and hold high cost and other loans in portfolio.
Moreover,
branch availability is a key element of CRA compliance, and foreclosure rates were lower in
metropolitan areas with proportionately greater numbers of bank branches.
Prior to the foreclosure crisis, some had suggested that the boom in subprime mortgage
lending, by easing access to credit for LMI borrowers, rendered the CRA irrelevant or obsolete.16
However, the demise of subprime lending, even if only temporary, and the lower proportion of
high cost loans made by CRA Banks even when the subprime market was thriving, suggest that
the CRA still has a vital role to play.

Of course, CRA Banks, even in their own assessment areas, have a relatively small
portion of the mortgage market. In the 15 metropolitan areas analyzed, the CRA Bank market
share of all loan originations was less than 25 percent, limiting the law’s impact on the subprime
crisis.
Because the vast majority of mortgage lending is done by other entities, some have
suggested extending CRA-like obligations to other lenders as a way of limiting the volume of
high cost loans and the problems associated with them. While extending the CRA to bank
affiliates and subsidiaries that lend in the bank’s community may have some merit, we believe
that the presence of local brick and mortar branches was as important a reason for CRA Banks’
better performance than fear of a less than satisfactory CRA evaluation.

Branches demonstrate a bank’s commitment to and investment in a community. The ongoing
interaction between bankers and residents that occurs at a deposit-taking branch provides
insight into credit needs that may enable banks to make more reliable assessments of borrowers’
creditworthiness and to avoid making loans that are likely to default. In addition, by providing
borrowers with a convenient location at which to apply for mortgage loans, branches may serve
as a magnet for attracting creditworthy borrowers. Without a branch nexus, it is doubtful
whether the same benefits can be realized for other lenders.
 
Last edited:
Last edited:
Another link to a right wing blog, and I can't even make out what they're trying to say. :roll:

LiveLeak is a right wing blog? :doh
 
If you believe the mission (or goal) of the CRA was to give loans to people who could not afford them, there is plenty of data available to present a valid argument on the subject.

Such as this.

Yes, I understand the rationale and I posted it. That´s why Obama said it seemed like a good idea in theory, but in practice it was a huge failure. That´s the video on the"right wing" site.
 
This was happening long before Obama took office. In case you don't remember, the housing bubble burst in 2007. Who was in office at that time?

Perhaps you should read the thread and the history of what went wrong before commenting.
 
Yes, I understand the rationale and I posted it. That´s why Obama said it seemed like a good idea in theory, but in practice it was a huge failure. That´s the video on the"right wing" site.

Your source is about as weak as it gets. There is plenty of data out there, but for some reason those who make the argument "the CRA caused the mortgage crisis" can only bring opinions to the table.
 
Yes, I understand the rationale and I posted it. That´s why Obama said it seemed like a good idea in theory, but in practice it was a huge failure. That´s the video on the"right wing" site.

The video is typical out of context right wing BS. Of course it's correct to say that there's nothing intrinsically wrong with a subprime loan, which is nothing more than a loan offered at a higher than prime rate. That is, IF the lender does due diligence to insure that the borrower has the ability to repay, as required under the CRA (but often not done by non-CRA lenders).
 
This was happening long before Obama took office. In case you don't remember, the housing bubble burst in 2007. Who was in office at that time?

Um... let me think.. that would have been 2007, and the WH was occupied by.. by.. can't think of any Democrat who was in the WH at that time. It couldn't possibly have been a Republican, though. A Republican POTUS would never, ever allow such a thing to happen.

of course not.
 
In contrast, McClatchy is as mainstream as they come and Fed has absolutely no dog in the CRA fight.

Lets see if this dog will hunt: Most mainstream print sources lean left. "Mainstream" news sources have been notoriously biased over and over.

Part 2. The fed has no dog in the CRA fight.

bwahahahahaha

What, do you suppose is the long term impact on the banking market stemming from CRA? Who do you think has the most to lose or gain from from more government meddling into the home lending market? Good god, you cannot possibly believe what you typed. The Fed has everything to lose by more banks being unstable. The fed is covering for policy implemented from the top. Nothing more, nothing less.
 
Without reading the thread, the housing bubble began crumbling in 2006 as the credit crisis began, before Obama was in the White House, before Democrats ran the Congress, before the economy collapsed entirely...


Record foreclosures hit mortgage lenders

Updated 3/30/2007 2:05 PM

The reason many mortgage lenders are in trouble became alarmingly clear Tuesday. The Mortgage Bankers Association said more than 2.1 million Americans with a home loan missed at least one payment at the end of last year — and the rate of new foreclosures hit a record.

The problem is most severe for borrowers with scuffed credit and adjustable-rate mortgages. More than 14% of them were behind on their payments. And the worst is yet to come, the MBA said. At least $300 billion in subprime ARMs will reset this year to higher interest rates. Those borrowers face higher payments and a harder time refinancing.

Blindsided by the number of loans that have already gone bad, more than two dozen lenders have gone out of business or been purchased. New Century Financial, the nation's second-largest subprime lender, has quit making loans and is edging toward bankruptcy protection.

More...


And to think, this entire disaster could have been averted if only Republicans had passed much needed oversight.

That wasn't too partisan, was it?
 
Last edited:
What, do you suppose is the long term impact on the banking market stemming from CRA?
Minimal...



Fed’s Kroszner: Don’t Blame CRA

Federal Reserve governor Randall Kroszner, a conservative economist on leave from a teaching post at the University of Chicago Booth Graduate School of Business, says the Community Reinvestment Act isn’t to blame for the subprime mess, despite some accusations to the contrary.

“First, only a small portion of subprime mortgage originations are related to the CRA. Second, CRA- related loans appear to perform comparably to other types of subprime loans. Taken together… we believe that the available evidence runs counter to the contention that the CRA contributed in any substantive way to the current mortgage crisis,” he said in a speech today in Washington.

[...]

Fed economists found that about 60% of higher-priced loan originations — the technical definition of subrpime — went to middle- or higher-income borrowers or neighborhoods who aren’t targeted by CRA. More than 20% of the higher-priced loans were extended to lower-income borrowers or borrowers in lower-income areas by institutions that aren’t banks — and aren’t covered by CRA.

The “striking result,” Kroszner said: “Only 6% of all the higher-priced loans were extended by CRA-covered lenders to lower-income borrowers or neighborhoods in their CRA assessment areas, the local geographies that are the primary focus for CRA evaluation purposes.”​
 
This was happening long before Obama took office. In case you don't remember, the housing bubble burst in 2007. Who was in office at that time?
The housing bubble burst began in 2006... Democrats hadn't even taken over the Congress yet.

Record foreclosures hit mortgage lenders

Why do you think righties blame Barney Frank?
 
Lets see if this dog will hunt: Most mainstream print sources lean left. "Mainstream" news sources have been notoriously biased over and over.

Part 2. The fed has no dog in the CRA fight.

bwahahahahaha

What, do you suppose is the long term impact on the banking market stemming from CRA? Who do you think has the most to lose or gain from from more government meddling into the home lending market? Good god, you cannot possibly believe what you typed. The Fed has everything to lose by more banks being unstable. The fed is covering for policy implemented from the top. Nothing more, nothing less.

You should drop it. It's not going well for you. You can't come up with a single source that supports your view that passes the laugh test. Your arguments are becoming more and more illogical. For example, if the Fed loses as a result of banks being unstable, and CRA makes banks unstable, why on earth would the Fed be covering up problems in the CRA?
 
Because they already tightened standards and are looking at implementation changes.More governmental intrusion into private and commercial banking means more power for the FED. It seems you are missing that basic point. The fed is all about power. CRA gave them a direct road to institute loans that allowed them to exercise direct power over banking decisions.

One government agency pushing banks into poor financial positions in which the fed gains greater control and you have the stones to say they have no dog in the hunt? They are the hunt.
Clue up.
 
Because they already tightened standards and are looking at implementation changes.More governmental intrusion into private and commercial banking means more power for the FED. It seems you are missing that basic point. The fed is all about power. CRA gave them a direct road to institute loans that allowed them to exercise direct power over banking decisions.

One government agency pushing banks into poor financial positions in which the fed gains greater control and you have the stones to say they have no dog in the hunt? They are the hunt.
Clue up.
:naughty

"Only 6% of all the higher-priced loans were extended by CRA-covered lenders to lower-income borrowers or neighborhoods in their CRA assessment areas, the local geographies that are the primary focus for CRA evaluation purposes." ~ Randall Kroszner, Federal Reserve Governor
 
A few things fueled the Housing and Financial crisis.

1. Housing prices going to high coupled with decreasing financial standards. CRA goes directly to this point. People were buying more house than they could afford or refinancing to erase debt every 5 years.
a. CRA lowered standards at the bottom rung and also upward as well.
b. The higher the amount of CRA paper an institution had the greater the losses were when the economy downturned.

2. Allowing bundling of mortgages and loans as part of the credit default swap model for spreading loan risk. Unfortanately it spread the risk everywhere.
a. Fannie and Freddie went deeper and deeper into the market as credit dried up in late 2006-early 2007. It increased the government underwriting risk.
b. As the bubble popped, people with re-fi's and ARMs (California) were basically screwed because their paper was more than their house.
c. As more people got underwater, more people weighed the default cost versus the completely broke AND homeless cost.
d. Some $9 trillion worth of the housing market was funded through F&F and then bundled out commercially.

The aftermath is the fed saying that its all ok. Because the truth is that some 15% of all US banks cannot withstand a stress test--IE a bank run. The fed is neck deep in using government funds to "re-stabilize" banks and commercial lending institutions. Of course they are presenting info that says its all good--if they fail the clamor to completely abolish the fed AND over regulate the financial industry will clamp the money supply so tight you will need to present 20% down and yearly income higher than the loan amount. Not to mention a financial crisis that will make 2008 look a slight correction by comparison.

Its about power. Its about control. Its about laying off blame. Some of you are so adamantly opposed to the fed and to big banking yet those are the exact sources you as so sure are right. Its hilarious.
Ask a simple question. Can you really take their assurances at face value?

Go ask someone that really understands the housing market and lending standards where things are right now--the answer wont be what you read from the fed.
 
Because they already tightened standards and are looking at implementation changes.More governmental intrusion into private and commercial banking means more power for the FED. It seems you are missing that basic point. The fed is all about power. CRA gave them a direct road to institute loans that allowed them to exercise direct power over banking decisions.

One government agency pushing banks into poor financial positions in which the fed gains greater control and you have the stones to say they have no dog in the hunt? They are the hunt.
Clue up.

Again, you provide nothing to back up your assertions. In this case it's probably because there has, in fact, been no reform to tighten CRA standards, which kind of guts your argument. In fact the opposite is true. There have been some minor reforms to expand CRA oversight to other types of loans and there are ongoing discussions about expanding income requirements to increase the number of loans subject to CRA.

But at the end of the day there is simply zero evidence that CRA contributed to the financial meltdown. If anything it appears that the problem would have been worse without CRA.
 
See post #578
 
Last edited:
A few things fueled the Housing and Financial crisis.

1. Housing prices going to high coupled with decreasing financial standards. CRA goes directly to this point. People were buying more house than they could afford or refinancing to erase debt every 5 years.
a. CRA lowered standards at the bottom rung and also upward as well.
b. The higher the amount of CRA paper an institution had the greater the losses were when the economy downturned.

2. Allowing bundling of mortgages and loans as part of the credit default swap model for spreading loan risk. Unfortanately it spread the risk everywhere.
a. Fannie and Freddie went deeper and deeper into the market as credit dried up in late 2006-early 2007. It increased the government underwriting risk.
b. As the bubble popped, people with re-fi's and ARMs (California) were basically screwed because their paper was more than their house.
c. As more people got underwater, more people weighed the default cost versus the completely broke AND homeless cost.
d. Some $9 trillion worth of the housing market was funded through F&F and then bundled out commercially.

The aftermath is the fed saying that its all ok. Because the truth is that some 15% of all US banks cannot withstand a stress test--IE a bank run. The fed is neck deep in using government funds to "re-stabilize" banks and commercial lending institutions. Of course they are presenting info that says its all good--if they fail the clamor to completely abolish the fed AND over regulate the financial industry will clamp the money supply so tight you will need to present 20% down and yearly income higher than the loan amount. Not to mention a financial crisis that will make 2008 look a slight correction by comparison.

Its about power. Its about control. Its about laying off blame. Some of you are so adamantly opposed to the fed and to big banking yet those are the exact sources you as so sure are right. Its hilarious.
Ask a simple question. Can you really take their assurances at face value?

Go ask someone that really understands the housing market and lending standards where things are right now--the answer wont be what you read from the fed.

:naughty

"Only 6% of all the higher-priced loans were extended by CRA-covered lenders to lower-income borrowers or neighborhoods in their CRA assessment areas, the local geographies that are the primary focus for CRA evaluation purposes." ~ Randall Kroszner, Federal Reserve Governor
 
"Only 6% of all the higher-priced loans were extended by CRA-covered lenders to lower-income borrowers or neighborhoods in their CRA assessment areas, the local geographies that are the primary focus for CRA evaluation purposes." ~ Randall Kroszner, Federal Reserve Governor

Reading comprehension. Doesnt address the loans as a total. Doesnt address the failure rate. Doesnt address the loosening of standards as a whole in the loan process. Its saying that "higher priced" (read commercial, probably) CRA loans were about 6%. Woo woo, that says...about nothing.


-
 
But at the end of the day there is simply zero evidence that CRA contributed to the financial meltdown. If anything it appears that the problem would have been worse without CRA.

You do understand that the widespread use of credit default swaps gained widespread use because of its use in the home market?
You do understand that the easing of rules was part of a compromise package to pass new rules for CRA in 97?
You do understand saying zero means it had NO impact. We know that isnt true or it wouldnt have been calls to reform it as the first act of the 2008 housing and finance committees.

Current figures are that some $1trillion in paper guaranteed by GSEs has foreclosed. No impact eh?
 
Back
Top Bottom