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New Post-Accident Chevy Volt Engine Fires Prompt Investigation Read more: http://www

Re: New Post-Accident Chevy Volt Engine Fires Prompt Investigation Read more: http:/

Omgitsme said:
Yes unfortunetly I read the title wrong on that one. However that is only one instance out of 58.
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And 2/67th of stats on the Internet are true. Here is what I know (and you confirmed for me):

When buying a Toyota, there was a chance that it would accelerate for no reason. I am not sure what that chance was, but I am certainly not going to condemn Toyota or cars in general because of a manufacturer error.
 
Re: New Post-Accident Chevy Volt Engine Fires Prompt Investigation Read more: http:/

whysoserious said:
And 2/67th of stats on the Internet are true. Here is what I know (and you confirmed for me):

When buying a Toyota, there was a chance that it would accelerate for no reason. I am not sure what that chance was, but I am certainly not going to condemn Toyota or cars in general because of a manufacturer error.
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The condemnation should happen when there are serious problems and the company fails to take care of it quickly and adequately - or even tries to cover it up altogether.

Or when companies sidestep and pad testing events and results to get higher scores and rankings - all the while knowing in reality things just aren't that good.
 
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Re: New Post-Accident Chevy Volt Engine Fires Prompt Investigation Read more: http:/

whysoserious said:
And 2/67th of stats on the Internet are true. Here is what I know (and you confirmed for me):

When buying a Toyota, there was a chance that it would accelerate for no reason. I am not sure what that chance was, but I am certainly not going to condemn Toyota or cars in general because of a manufacturer error.
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1 or 2 in 26,935. Thats if we are talking about the Avalon only.
 
Re: New Post-Accident Chevy Volt Engine Fires Prompt Investigation Read more: http:/

Omgitsme said:
1 or 2 in 26,935. Thats if we are talking about the Avalon only.
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Really? And what's the rate of Volt's that explode in accidents?
 
Re: New Post-Accident Chevy Volt Engine Fires Prompt Investigation Read more: http:/

whysoserious said:
Really? And what's the rate of Volt's that explode in accidents?
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No clue. Probably not very high.
 
Re: New Post-Accident Chevy Volt Engine Fires Prompt Investigation Read more: http:/

whysoserious said:
Wow, you guys are crazy. You'll look for any reason to hate a product that goes against your ideology, eh? Did you guys want to quit gas engines when Toyota's cars began having their accelerators stick? Probably not, because that's ****ing retarded.

Look at yourselves.
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You guys? I do not see everyone attacking it.
 
Re: New Post-Accident Chevy Volt Engine Fires Prompt Investigation Read more: http:/

MaggieD said:
That does it.

Electric cars suck wind. What a bunch of bozos pursuing a technology that's so obviously unsafe. I can't believe our government is actually offering a rebate on them. Somebody's getting rich off this -- and I can absolutely assure you it's not my side. Jerks.

Oh, wait:



Hold on . . .



Whoa!!!!



It's quite obvious to me that automobiles are inherently unsafe. For all of those who touted automobiles as the next best thing to sliced bread, it would seem they have issues. Let's outlaw 'em!
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No, lets stop gov't subsidizing them! How does that sound? :roll:

Major fail. Pintos and Toyotas were not subsidized by the taxpayer.

HUGE Difference.

When I am forced to give my taxpayer dollars to someone who buys one of these pieces of **** and find out they have a major safety flaw, I have a right to complain and complain loudly. Did you ever stop to think that if it was such good technology and if it was such a good ****ing car, that you wouldn't need your gov't to step in and pay for part of the damn thing? Good ideas are self sufficient.....i.e....the internal combustion vehicle. (and don't bring up bailouts of the auto industry, that was caused by unions and slow sales because of the economy, not because the engine driven car is a bad idea)
 
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Re: New Post-Accident Chevy Volt Engine Fires Prompt Investigation Read more: http:/

dontworrybehappy said:
Major fail. Pintos and Toyotas were not subsidized by the taxpayer.

HUGE Difference.
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I fail to see a huge difference. At all. Do you think that magically adding taxpayer money to the mix makes a car manufacturer infallible? No. I didn't think so. Recalls are recalls. Bugs are bugs. What's the big deal?
 
Re: New Post-Accident Chevy Volt Engine Fires Prompt Investigation Read more: http:/

dontworrybehappy said:
No, lets stop gov't subsidizing them! How does that sound? :roll:

Major fail. Pintos and Toyotas were not subsidized by the taxpayer.

HUGE Difference.

When I am forced to give my taxpayer dollars to someone who buys one of these pieces of **** and find out they have a major safety flaw, I have a right to complain and complain loudly. Did you ever stop to think that if it was such good technology and if it was such a good ****ing car, that you wouldn't need your gov't to step in and pay for part of the damn thing? Good ideas are self sufficient.....i.e....the internal combustion vehicle. (and don't bring up bailouts of the auto industry, that was caused by unions and slow sales because of the economy, not because the engine driven car is a bad idea)
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Toyota (and Ford, and Honda, and GM) hybrids were subsidized. Sometimes the auto industry needs a kick in the ass to move in the right direction (see seatbelts, air bags, catalytic converters).
 
Re: New Post-Accident Chevy Volt Engine Fires Prompt Investigation Read more: http:/

AdamT said:
Toyota (and Ford, and Honda, and GM) hybrids were subsidized. Sometimes the auto industry needs a kick in the ass to move in the right direction (see seatbelts, air bags, catalytic converters).
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I do not believe any of these were subsidized. The reason for this is they know that if they drag their feet long enough the taxpayers will be forced to fund their research because of all of the hoops anyone that wanted to compete have to jump through.

Cars made their place because of individuals believing they could do better. In many cases they did, in some they didn't.
 
Re: New Post-Accident Chevy Volt Engine Fires Prompt Investigation Read more: http:/

1Perry said:
I do not believe any of these were subsidized. The reason for this is they know that if they drag their feet long enough the taxpayers will be forced to fund their research because of all of the hoops anyone that wanted to compete have to jump through.

Cars made their place because of individuals believing they could do better. In many cases they did, in some they didn't.
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Hybrids were absolutely subsidized. I've got a tax rebate to prove it. Seatbelts, air bags, and catalytic converters were straight-out mandated, which is a damned-site more intrusive than offering small subsidies.
 
Re: New Post-Accident Chevy Volt Engine Fires Prompt Investigation Read more: http:/

dontworrybehappy said:
No, lets stop gov't subsidizing them! How does that sound? :roll:

Major fail. Pintos and Toyotas were not subsidized by the taxpayer.

HUGE Difference.

When I am forced to give my taxpayer dollars to someone who buys one of these pieces of **** and find out they have a major safety flaw, I have a right to complain and complain loudly. Did you ever stop to think that if it was such good technology and if it was such a good ****ing car, that you wouldn't need your gov't to step in and pay for part of the damn thing? Good ideas are self sufficient.....i.e....the internal combustion vehicle. (and don't bring up bailouts of the auto industry, that was caused by unions and slow sales because of the economy, not because the engine driven car is a bad idea)
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BTW only two have caught fire. And there are over 5,000 of them produced. Not a very big number.
 
Re: New Post-Accident Chevy Volt Engine Fires Prompt Investigation Read more: http:/

AdamT said:
Hybrids were absolutely subsidized. I've got a tax rebate to prove it. Seatbelts, air bags, and catalytic converters were straight-out mandated, which is a damned-site more intrusive than offering small subsidies.
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But they were not subsidized. I understand CAFE standards. The manufacturers will have to figure out how to reach them.
 
Re: New Post-Accident Chevy Volt Engine Fires Prompt Investigation Read more: http:/

Bob Blaylock said:
If we ever achieve a certain necessary breakthrough in battery technology, then I expect to see the internal combustion engine become obsolete. A pure electric car is much more efficient than a gasoline-powered one, and at least in theory, can be simpler, more durable, and more reliable.

The big problem is the battery. In terms of how much energy can be stored in a given weight and volume, we don't have any battery technology that comes anywhere close to gasoline.

My forklift is electric. Its battery weights about 3500 pounds—more than most cars. I've calculated that this battery's energy capacity is about equal to about a gallon and a third of gasoline. And when run down, it takes hours to fully recharge it. Imagine trying to travel using a car that only carried a gallon and a third of gasoline, and took hours to refuel.

The Volt is a way to compromise. A battery to get you as far as it can go on that, and a gasoline-fueled engine to take you anywhere beyond that. But we'll never enjoy the full benefits of an electric car until we have one that can achieve a usable range without having to carry a separate internal-combustion-powered drive train as the Volt does.
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Bear in mind that your forklift uses lead acid batteries, the heaviest and least energy dense of available battery technologies.

Batteries have come a long way, and the type of hybrid the Volt is, electric with an auxiliary generator, is IMO the best type.

The reason is that it can be "easily" adapted to other fuel sources, as the APU can be designed to run on any fuel, so you could have diesel Volts or CNG Volts or straw ethanol/methanol Volts without having to re-engineer the entire vehicle.

Add to that the fact it can be used exclusively electrically to the extent that it has a system to warn you that your gas is getting "old". If you live within thirty miles or so from your work, and can arrange to charge it at work, you can commute completely electrically.

I'm pretty sure ALL cars will be electric in the future. And when they get more of the bugs out you will almost certainly like it. 100% of available torque from zero rpm to redline. Check out an "Electric Draggin" event if you get a chance. Plenty of testosterone to go around. Quiet environmentally sound motorsports.
 
Re: New Post-Accident Chevy Volt Engine Fires Prompt Investigation Read more: http:/

Omgitsme said:
It is difficult to store however they have managed to find a way to do it in California. They have hydrogen fueling stations there already.

Yes a hydrogen internal combustion engine isnt all that efficient but a hydrogen fuel cell vehicle is 100-200% more efficient then a gasoline ICE.
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Bear in mind though that most "hydrogen infrastructure" plans are based on using natural gas as a source of hydrogen. Trafing one fossil fuel for another.

Hydrogen isn't a "fuel", it is much more akin to a battery in that it either takes energy to produce or is "extracted" from an existing fuel source. There are no hydrogen mines or wells.

Electricity, on the other hand, can be generated in any number of ways and an electric vehicle doesn't care where the electrons come from. Allowing new sources to be used without requiring our vehicle fleets to be changed to accommodate it.
 
Re: New Post-Accident Chevy Volt Engine Fires Prompt Investigation Read more: http:/

TheDemSocialist said:
Remember guys it also runs on gas.....



Soo going by your knowledge sense the car also takes gas couldnt it be logical that i can blame the problem on gas?
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Correct, but car-sized battery banks contain a ridiculous amount of stored energy. Making sure this energy isn't suddenly released in an accident is a primary design issue. It COULD be a result of short circuits. (As much as I hate to say it).
 
Re: New Post-Accident Chevy Volt Engine Fires Prompt Investigation Read more: http:/

dontworrybehappy said:
No, lets stop gov't subsidizing them! How does that sound? :roll:

Major fail. Pintos and Toyotas were not subsidized by the taxpayer.

HUGE Difference.

When I am forced to give my taxpayer dollars to someone who buys one of these pieces of **** and find out they have a major safety flaw, I have a right to complain and complain loudly. Did you ever stop to think that if it was such good technology and if it was such a good ****ing car, that you wouldn't need your gov't to step in and pay for part of the damn thing? Good ideas are self sufficient.....i.e....the internal combustion vehicle. (and don't bring up bailouts of the auto industry, that was caused by unions and slow sales because of the economy, not because the engine driven car is a bad idea)
Click to expand...

Your concerns about safety are somewhat overblown, considering the fact that if gasoline were discovered today they'd NEVER let us carry many gallons of it in a vehicle travelling 70+ miles an hour.
 
Re: New Post-Accident Chevy Volt Engine Fires Prompt Investigation Read more: http:/

1Perry said:
But they were not subsidized. I understand CAFE standards. The manufacturers will have to figure out how to reach them.
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Dude ... THEY WERE SUBSIDIZED!! That is what a tax rebate is. It makes hybrids less expensive for the consumer and thus provides a direct benefit to the manufacturer.

Under Bush's policy purchasers of hybrid vehicles were entitled to a tax credit of up to $3,400. That's not a deduction, but a credit, which is basically the government cutting me a check of $3,400 for buying a Toyota.
 
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Re: New Post-Accident Chevy Volt Engine Fires Prompt Investigation Read more: http:/

What if...? said:
Bear in mind though that most "hydrogen infrastructure" plans are based on using natural gas as a source of hydrogen. Trafing one fossil fuel for another.

Hydrogen isn't a "fuel", it is much more akin to a battery in that it either takes energy to produce or is "extracted" from an existing fuel source. There are no hydrogen mines or wells.

Electricity, on the other hand, can be generated in any number of ways and an electric vehicle doesn't care where the electrons come from. Allowing new sources to be used without requiring our vehicle fleets to be changed to accommodate it.
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Yes producing hydrogen using natural gas isnt all that economical. However producing it using electrolysis is a much better way of producing hydrogen.
 
Re: New Post-Accident Chevy Volt Engine Fires Prompt Investigation Read more: http:/

Omgitsme said:
Yes producing hydrogen using natural gas isnt all that economical. However producing it using electrolysis is a much better way of producing hydrogen.
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I'm actually pretty sure it takes more energy to produce hydrogen from water through electrolysis than from NG.

And, iirc, electrolysis takes more energy to produce hydrogen than the hydrogen it produces carries.

That said, ANY power generation method that eliminates acceleration/deceleration cycles results in a net efficiency benefit. Even with generation losses, a gallon of fuel burned in a constant rpm generator is more efficient than the same fuel burned in a conventional car.
 
Re: New Post-Accident Chevy Volt Engine Fires Prompt Investigation Read more: http:/

What if...? said:
I'm actually pretty sure it takes more energy to produce hydrogen from water through electrolysis than from NG.

And, iirc, electrolysis takes more energy to produce hydrogen than the hydrogen it produces carries.

That said, ANY power generation method that eliminates acceleration/deceleration cycles results in a net efficiency benefit. Even with generation losses, a gallon of fuel burned in a constant rpm generator is more efficient than the same fuel burned in a conventional car.
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It is less. And many hydrogen powered cars dont burn hydrogen which is indeed inefficient. They use basically the reverse of electrolysis to create electricity in order to power an electric motor.
 
Re: New Post-Accident Chevy Volt Engine Fires Prompt Investigation Read more: http:/

Helix said:
what happened in the 1970s when, nearly a century into gasoline-powered automobile technology, Pintos began exploding during and after accidents?

was it :

a. a design flaw in that particular model
or
b. an indictment of all internal combustion technology, with the only logical response being the abandonment of gasoline powered vehicles

?
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C. It was a loss for Ford and not the American taxpayer.
 
Re: New Post-Accident Chevy Volt Engine Fires Prompt Investigation Read more: http:/

Omgitsme said:
It is less. And many hydrogen powered cars dont burn hydrogen which is indeed inefficient. They use basically the reverse of electrolysis to create electricity in order to power an electric motor.
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I understand that fuel cells are used primarily to provide electricity. And that electrolysis is becoming more efficient. My primary concern was with the NG "hydrogen infrastructure" bait and switch that would have simply switched fossil fuels while keeping the same fossil fuel companies at the top of the transportation profit pyramid. With a new taxpayer funded delivery infrastructure that woupd be rendered useless when natural gas supplies started to dwindle.

As its entirely possible that these technologies are advancing along a track that allow them to compete with batteries for energy storage, do you have links or searchable terms on this? It has been a few years since I was keeping track. So you could very well be correct. If hydrogen electrolysis and fuel cell environmental impacts offset the considerable issues new battery technologies have in the areas of carbon footprints/toxicity of manufacture and disposal/recycling.
 
Re: New Post-Accident Chevy Volt Engine Fires Prompt Investigation Read more: http:/

AdamT said:
Toyota (and Ford, and Honda, and GM) hybrids were subsidized. Sometimes the auto industry needs a kick in the ass to move in the right direction (see seatbelts, air bags, catalytic converters).
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Damnit Adam, quit moving the goalposts.

First I said that this is a huge problem. Now, I didn't specify why other than it being electric. That was my bad. So after being asked why and having people point out other cars with recalls, I pointed out that the taxpayers were subsidizing this car, neither of the recalled cars. Then the goalposts are moved again and you say that Ford and Toyota were receiving gov't subsidies for their hybrids. Ok....stop. Apples to apples people. One car with a safety issue and two other cars with safety issues. Difference? Ford and Toyota got screwed, not the American taxpayer. As Orielly says, stop the spin.

Nobody ever said that no other hybrid receives subsidies from the gov't. The title and subject of this thread is the safety of a vehicle that the gov't is pushing by subsidizing it heavily. It's not about other hybrid cars. When Obama pushes the Volt himself, and yet this car has some serious safety issues that need to be dealt with, that's really bad. The gov't needs to stay the hell out of the auto industry.

President Obama Takes Chevy Volt Electric Car for a Test Drive | The Rundown News Blog | PBS NewsHour | PBS

You say only 2 out of 5000 have caught fire. That's not very good, out of those 5000, how many have even been in accidents? 10? 20? Lets look at a much more heavily produced car, the Corolla. As of 2007, 37,000,000 Corollas have been built. If you work out the math, if 2 of every 5000 built caught on fire, that would be 14,800 Corollas bursting into flames. I bet you wouldn't be standing idly by if you'd heard that 14,000 of one model of car had caught on fire. You'd be livid. You'd be even more upset if you found out the gov't had been subsidizing the Corolla and pushing it with your taxpayer dollars.

Well, that's how I feel about the Volt.
 
Re: New Post-Accident Chevy Volt Engine Fires Prompt Investigation Read more: http:/

What if...? said:
I understand that fuel cells are used primarily to provide electricity. And that electrolysis is becoming more efficient. My primary concern was with the NG "hydrogen infrastructure" bait and switch that would have simply switched fossil fuels while keeping the same fossil fuel companies at the top of the transportation profit pyramid. With a new taxpayer funded delivery infrastructure that woupd be rendered useless when natural gas supplies started to dwindle.

As its entirely possible that these technologies are advancing along a track that allow them to compete with batteries for energy storage, do you have links or searchable terms on this? It has been a few years since I was keeping track. So you could very well be correct. If hydrogen electrolysis and fuel cell environmental impacts offset the considerable issues new battery technologies have in the areas of carbon footprints/toxicity of manufacture and disposal/recycling.
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Is this what you meant by energy storage?

Researchers make advances in rechargeable solid hydrogen fuel storage tanks

Other links...

Pee power could fuel hydrogen cars | Environment | guardian.co.uk

Discovery of Cheap Catalyst Advances Case for Hydrogen Fuel | CleanTechnica

And dont know if you already know this or not but Honda has been selling hydrogen powered cars in California since 2008 and they have a small hydrogen infrastructure already.
 
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