CBO: Stimulus hurts economy in the long run

AdamT · Nov 24, 2011

Conservative said:
Aw, gee, let me pull a liberal on you, Salon magazine? ROFLMAO. I hope I am around when you grow up and out of that brainwashed state of mind you are in.

I hope when you grow up you learn that ad hominem isn't argument.

Conservative · Nov 24, 2011

1Perry said:
He did a very good job during the war years in keeping people together and supporting the war effort. I would never argue otherwise but to say that he was popular because he was giving away the store before that isn't much of an arguement.

Anyone is popular while they are giving things away.

That is why liberalism remains popular with many on this thread, they buy votes by keeping people dependent.

Conservative · Nov 24, 2011

AdamT said:
I hope when you grow up you learn that ad hominem isn't argument.

No ad hominem there at all, just reality and experience speaking.

AdamT · Nov 24, 2011

Conservative said:
No ad hominem there at all, just reality and experience speaking.

Actually it was ad hominem by any definition of the term: attacking the source rather than the substance.

Donc · Nov 24, 2011

Conservative said:
What Irony?

WHAT IRONY!! Good god man do you ever step back and take a look at what you post?you use every right wing talking point, in every thread and your implying that someone else an IDEOLOGUE???:shock:

Conservative · Nov 24, 2011

AdamT said:
Actually it was ad hominem by any definition of the term: attacking the source rather than the substance.

The source and the substance has been attacked and as has been pointed out economists disagree as they always do, just like now. You choose to agree with those whose opinion is similar to yours and ignore those whose opinion differs. That is why I post non partisan data which again you ignore. Data matters a lot more than opinion thus when I post Obama results I post the link to the data. That is why liberal Obama supporters never attack the data because they cannot.

The problem we have today is lack of leadership and has been pointed out we are getting exactly what the Obama resume showed, zero leadership skills. The Obama stimulus program and economic policies have led to meager economic growth and added 4.4 trillion to the debt. Anyone that ignores the long term effects of those policies is very naive and brainwashed.

Reagan leadership

1983
I II III IV
5.1 9.3 8.1 8.5

Obama "Leadership"

2011
I II
0.4 1.3 2.0

Conservative · Nov 24, 2011

treedancer said:
WHAT IRONY!! Good god man do you ever step back and take a look at what you post?you use every right wing talking point, in every thread and your implying that someone else an IDEOLOGUE???:shock:

So right wing talking points coming from non partisan sites that are verifiable are wrong? Seems that being slightly liberal has created the inability to research and to understand that non partisan data is accurate and tells the entire story. Keep buying the liberal talking points, slightly liberal.

Donc · Nov 24, 2011

Conservative said:
So right wing talking points coming from non partisan sites that are verifiable are wrong?

So you're saying that CBO data is wrong, if it disputes the erroneous point that you are making?

Conservative · Nov 24, 2011

treedancer said:
So you're saying that CBO data is wrong, if it disputes the erroneous point that you are making?

Yes, when it comes to Obama results they are projections and not accurate data as there is no source that provides saved jobs nor do projected economic results matter

Please cite for me the site that actually calculates saved jobs?

AdamT · Nov 24, 2011

Conservative said:
The source and the substance has been attacked and as has been pointed out economists disagree as they always do, just like now. You choose to agree with those whose opinion is similar to yours and ignore those whose opinion differs. That is why I post non partisan data which again you ignore. Data matters a lot more than opinion thus when I post Obama results I post the link to the data. That is why liberal Obama supporters never attack the data because they cannot.

The problem we have today is lack of leadership and has been pointed out we are getting exactly what the Obama resume showed, zero leadership skills. The Obama stimulus program and economic policies have led to meager economic growth and added 4.4 trillion to the debt. Anyone that ignores the long term effects of those policies is very naive and brainwashed.

Reagan leadership

1983
I II III IV
5.1 9.3 8.1 8.5

Obama "Leadership"

2011
I II
0.4 1.3 2.0

As predicted. The fact that economists disagree does not take into account the fact that MOST economists believe the New Deal has positive effects on the eocnomy.

Conservative · Nov 24, 2011

AdamT said:
As predicted. The fact that economists disagree does not take into account the fact that MOST economists believe the New Deal has positive effects on the eocnomy.

As predicted you argue about a period of time that you know little about while ignoring the present. You want badly to believe that Obama saved the country but his economic results don't show that

j-mac · Nov 24, 2011

AdamT said:
As predicted. The fact that economists disagree does not take into account the fact that MOST economists believe the New Deal has positive effects on the eocnomy.

Here we go with the "MOST" agree meme....This is an elementary tactic that the only objective to use it is to stifle debate, and not have to debate differing points of view. It is pure Allenski tactic and should be dismissed at best, and taken as a concession of loss of argument in your part in the debate. Nice try though.

j-mac

Donc · Nov 24, 2011

QUOTE Conservative

Yes, when it comes to Obama results they are projections and not accurate data as there is no source that provides saved jobs nor do projected economic results matter

And I won’t be able to come up with a search of DP threads where you’re using the CBO report for justification of one of your post?:mrgreen:

Please cite for me the site that actually calculates saved jobs?

it starts at page 11 of the CBO report i provided.:2wave:

Conservative · Nov 24, 2011

treedancer said:
And I won’t be able to come up with a search of DP threads where you’re using the CBO report for justification of one of your post?:mrgreen:

it starts at page 11 of the CBO report i provided.:2wave:

Have at it, I have never accepted CBO numbers as accurate because of the very definition as to the role of the CBO. CBO is required by law to take the assumptions given it by Congress and if those assumptions are wrong they produce false results.

Please understand the following: THERE ARE NO SITES THAT CALCULATE SAVED JOBS BECAUSE THERE IS NO WAY OF KNOWING IF A JOB WAS SAVED OR NOT BY A PARTICULAR ACTION

pbrauer · Nov 24, 2011

Data from bls.gov shows that the stimulus worked:

Private sector jobs gains/losses

Year	Jan	Feb	Mar	Apr	May	Jun	Jul	Aug	Sep	Oct	Nov	Dec
2008 Gain/ Loss	4	-128	-87	-186	-240	-217	-265	-317	-434	-491	-787	-636
2009 Gain/ Loss	-841	-721	-787	-773	-326	-438	-287	-215	-213	-250	-34	-102
2010 Gain/ Loss	-42	-21	144	229	48	65	93	110	109	143	128	167
2011 Gain/ Loss	94	261	219	241	99	75	156	17

j-mac · Nov 24, 2011

pbrauer said:
Data from bls.gov shows that the stimulus worked:

Private sector jobs gains/losses

Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec
2008 Gain/
Loss 4 -128 -87 -186 -240 -217 -265 -317 -434 -491 -787 -636
2009 Gain/
Loss -841 -721 -787 -773 -326 -438 -287 -215 -213 -250 -34 -102
2010 Gain/
Loss -42 -21 144 229 48 65 93 110 109 143 128 167
2011 Gain/
Loss 94 261 219 241 99 75 156 17

Is the definition of "working" now to include only a temporary, slowing of the obvious? Look, stimulus if it did anything, it was a pay off to the union constituents, and donor/supporter network that just didn't help the overall economy, or the average working sector one damned bit.

One other thing it showed clearly is that Obama is an abject liar that will be defeated in '12.

j-mac

Conservative · Nov 24, 2011

pbrauer said:
Data from bls.gov shows that the stimulus worked:

Private sector jobs gains/losses

Year
Jan
Feb
Mar
Apr
May
Jun
Jul
Aug
Sep
Oct
Nov
Dec

2008 Gain/
Loss
4
-128
-87
-186
-240
-217
-265
-317
-434
-491
-787
-636

2009 Gain/
Loss
-841
-721
-787
-773
-326
-438
-287
-215
-213
-250
-34
-102

2010 Gain/
Loss
-42
-21
144
229
48
65
93
110
109
143
128
167

2011 Gain/
Loss
94
261
219
241
99
75
156
17

Only in the liberal world can you add 4.4 trillion to the debt, have a net job loss, and a rising misery index can that be called a success.

25 million unemployed or under employedAmericans in 2011(bls.gov)154.1 X 16.2% [url]http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/surveymost?ln :U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics[/URL]

14.8 million unemployed PLUS Discouraged workers http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/surveymost?ln : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

2.2 million fewer jobs(bls.gov) http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/surveymost? ln: U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

4.4 trillion added to the debt in less than 3 years(U.S. Treasury Site) Government- Historical Debt Outstanding – Annual http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/NPGateway

1/21/20096,307,084,792,840.85 4,317,968,751,468.94 10,625,053,544,309.70

11/22/2011 10,326,530,350,389.40 4,721,461,154,539.92 15,047,991,504,929.30

Down grade of U.S. Credit rating(S&P)

Rising Misery index 7.83 to 12.53 http://www.miseryindex.us/customindexbymonth.asp

38-44% JAR and well over 50-55% disapproval ratings(Gallup)
http://www.gallup.com/poll/113980/gallup-daily-obama-job-approval.aspx

USPoverty Hits Record High: 1 in 6 Americans Living Below Poverty Line | EconomyWatch
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1111/67508.html

“Fast and Furious”, “Wide Receiver”

Solyndra, Fisker, and Crony Capitalism JobsPanel Member Whose Solar Firm Won Loan Guarantees Raises 'Conflict OfInterest' Concerns | Fox News

Solyndrasolar power company shuts down 15 months after Obama visit
http://www.thehalsreport.com/2011/09/green-jobs-fail-to-take-hold-in-the-u-s/

The Tonopah Solar company in Harry Reid's Nevada is getting a $737 million loanfrom Obama's DOE.
The project will produce a 110 megawatt power system and employ 45 permanentworkers.
That's costing us just $16 million per job.

One of the investment partners in this endeavor is Pacific Corporate Group(PCG).
The PCG executive director is Ron Pelosi who is the brother of Nancy's husband.
But there is nothing wrong here, is there?
U.S.Bridges, Roads Being Built by Chinese Firms | Video - ABC News

Stimulus failure

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904716604576544500632493510.html

1Perry · Nov 24, 2011

AdamT said:
You seem to have a reading comprehension problem if that's what you got out of the cited text.

So basically, what the 2004 UCLA study concluded was that inflated prices and wages were the cause of the slowed recovery, and the NIRA which FDR signed into law was the cause of that inflation, resulting in a 60% weaker recovery.

:shrug:

1Perry · Nov 24, 2011

pbrauer said:
Data from bls.gov shows that the stimulus worked:

Private sector jobs gains/losses

Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec
2008 Gain/
Loss 4 -128 -87 -186 -240 -217 -265 -317 -434 -491 -787 -636
2009 Gain/
Loss -841 -721 -787 -773 -326 -438 -287 -215 -213 -250 -34 -102
2010 Gain/
Loss -42 -21 144 229 48 65 93 110 109 143 128 167
2011 Gain/
Loss 94 261 219 241 99 75 156 17

If you consider that a success after spending trillions of dollars.

pbrauer · Nov 24, 2011

Conservative said:
Only in the liberal world can you add 4.4 trillion to the debt, have a net job loss, and a rising misery index can that be called a success.

25 million unemployed or under employedAmericans in 2011(bls.gov)154.1 X 16.2% [url]http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/surveymost?ln :U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics[/URL]

14.8 million unemployed PLUS Discouraged workers http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/surveymost?ln : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

2.2 million fewer jobs(bls.gov) http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/surveymost? ln: U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

4.4 trillion added to the debt in less than 3 years(U.S. Treasury Site) Government- Historical Debt Outstanding – Annual http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/NPGateway

1/21/20096,307,084,792,840.85 4,317,968,751,468.94 10,625,053,544,309.70

11/22/2011 10,326,530,350,389.40 4,721,461,154,539.92 15,047,991,504,929.30

Down grade of U.S. Credit rating(S&P)

Rising Misery index 7.83 to 12.53 http://www.miseryindex.us/customindexbymonth.asp

38-44% JAR and well over 50-55% disapproval ratings(Gallup)
http://www.gallup.com/poll/113980/gallup-daily-obama-job-approval.aspx

USPoverty Hits Record High: 1 in 6 Americans Living Below Poverty Line | EconomyWatch
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1111/67508.html

“Fast and Furious”, “Wide Receiver”

Solyndra, Fisker, and Crony Capitalism JobsPanel Member Whose Solar Firm Won Loan Guarantees Raises 'Conflict OfInterest' Concerns | Fox News

Solyndrasolar power company shuts down 15 months after Obama visit
http://www.thehalsreport.com/2011/09/green-jobs-fail-to-take-hold-in-the-u-s/

The Tonopah Solar company in Harry Reid's Nevada is getting a $737 million loanfrom Obama's DOE.
The project will produce a 110 megawatt power system and employ 45 permanentworkers.
That's costing us just $16 million per job.

One of the investment partners in this endeavor is Pacific Corporate Group(PCG).
The PCG executive director is Ron Pelosi who is the brother of Nancy's husband.
But there is nothing wrong here, is there?
U.S.Bridges, Roads Being Built by Chinese Firms | Video - ABC News

Stimulus failure

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904716604576544500632493510.html

When are you going to stop posting your dishonest boriing poop, Conservative?

Conservative · Nov 24, 2011

pbrauer said:
When are you going to stop posting your dishonest boriing poop, Conservative?

Since it is dishonest you shouldn't have any problem proving it wrong? Amazing how sourced data is wrong and dishonest.

ksu_aviator · Nov 24, 2011

pbrauer said:
When are you going to stop posting your dishonest boriing poop, Conservative?

The best thing you can do when you get owned like that is to either acknowledge the good post or just be quiet.

apdst · Nov 24, 2011

pbrauer said:
Data from bls.gov shows that the stimulus worked:

Private sector jobs gains/losses

Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec
2008 Gain/
Loss 4 -128 -87 -186 -240 -217 -265 -317 -434 -491 -787 -636
2009 Gain/
Loss -841 -721 -787 -773 -326 -438 -287 -215 -213 -250 -34 -102
2010 Gain/
Loss -42 -21 144 229 48 65 93 110 109 143 128 167
2011 Gain/
Loss 94 261 219 241 99 75 156 17

The stimulus worked? :lamo

If you call funding every Libbos wet dream for the past 30 years, including turtle tunnels and deer underpasses, then it was a smashing success.

As far as actually boosting the economy and helping the economy, it was a miserable failure.

Conservative · Nov 24, 2011

apdst said:
The stimulus worked? :lamo

If you call funding every Libbos wet dream for the past 30 years, including turtle tunnels and deer underpasses, then it was a smashing success.

As far as actually boosting the economy and helping the economy, it was a miserable failure.

Naw, these results are what the liberals were looking for. The more they can keep dependent the more power they get

25 million unemployed or under employed Americans in 2011(bls.gov)154.1 X 16.2% Top Picks (Most Requested Statistics) : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

14.8 million unemployed PLUS Discouraged workers Top Picks (Most Requested Statistics) : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

2.2 million fewer jobs(bls.gov) Notice: Data not available: U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics ln : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

4.4 trillion added to the debt in less than 3 years(U.S. Treasury Site) Government - Historical Debt Outstanding – Annual Government - Debt to the Penny (Daily History Search Application)

1/21/2009 6,307,084,792,840.85 4,317,968,751,468.94 10,625,053,544,309.70

11/22/2011 10,326,530,350,389.40 4,721,461,154,539.92 15,047,991,504,929.30

Down grade of U.S. Credit rating(S&P)

Rising Misery index 7.83 to 12.53 The United States Misery Index By Year

38-44% JAR and well over 50-55% disapproval ratings(Gallup)
Gallup Daily: Obama Job Approval

US Poverty Hits Record High: 1 in 6 Americans Living Below Poverty Line | Economy Watch
Report: Poverty hits record level - MJ Lee - POLITICO.com

“Fast and Furious”, “Wide Receiver”

Solyndra, Fisker, and Crony Capitalism Jobs Panel Member Whose Solar Firm Won Loan Guarantees Raises 'Conflict Of Interest' Concerns | Fox News

Solyndra solar power company shuts down 15 months after Obama visit
Solyndra solar power company shuts down 15 months after Obama visit

The Tonopah Solar company in Harry Reid's Nevada is getting a $737 million loan from Obama's DOE.
The project will produce a 110 megawatt power system and employ 45 permanent workers.
That's costing us just $16 million per job.

One of the investment partners in this endeavor is Pacific Corporate Group (PCG).
The PCG executive director is Ron Pelosi who is the brother of Nancy's husband.
But there is nothing wrong here, is there?

U.S. Bridges, Roads Being Built by Chinese Firms | Video - ABC News

U.S. Bridges, Roads Being Built by Chinese Firms | Video - ABC News

Stimulus failure

Review & Outlook:Why the Stimulus Failed - WSJ.com

apdst · Nov 24, 2011

Conservative said:
Naw, these results are what the liberals were looking for. The more they can keep dependent the more power they get

25 million unemployed or under employed Americans in 2011(bls.gov)154.1 X 16.2% Top Picks (Most Requested Statistics) : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

14.8 million unemployed PLUS Discouraged workers Top Picks (Most Requested Statistics) : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

2.2 million fewer jobs(bls.gov) Notice: Data not available: U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics ln : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

4.4 trillion added to the debt in less than 3 years(U.S. Treasury Site) Government - Historical Debt Outstanding – Annual Government - Debt to the Penny (Daily History Search Application)

1/21/2009 6,307,084,792,840.85 4,317,968,751,468.94 10,625,053,544,309.70

11/22/2011 10,326,530,350,389.40 4,721,461,154,539.92 15,047,991,504,929.30

Down grade of U.S. Credit rating(S&P)

Rising Misery index 7.83 to 12.53 The United States Misery Index By Year

38-44% JAR and well over 50-55% disapproval ratings(Gallup)
Gallup Daily: Obama Job Approval

US Poverty Hits Record High: 1 in 6 Americans Living Below Poverty Line | Economy Watch
Report: Poverty hits record level - MJ Lee - POLITICO.com

“Fast and Furious”, “Wide Receiver”

Solyndra, Fisker, and Crony Capitalism Jobs Panel Member Whose Solar Firm Won Loan Guarantees Raises 'Conflict Of Interest' Concerns | Fox News

Solyndra solar power company shuts down 15 months after Obama visit
Solyndra solar power company shuts down 15 months after Obama visit

The Tonopah Solar company in Harry Reid's Nevada is getting a $737 million loan from Obama's DOE.
The project will produce a 110 megawatt power system and employ 45 permanent workers.
That's costing us just $16 million per job.

One of the investment partners in this endeavor is Pacific Corporate Group (PCG).
The PCG executive director is Ron Pelosi who is the brother of Nancy's husband.
But there is nothing wrong here, is there?

U.S. Bridges, Roads Being Built by Chinese Firms | Video - ABC News

U.S. Bridges, Roads Being Built by Chinese Firms | Video - ABC News

Stimulus failure

Review & Outlook:Why the Stimulus Failed - WSJ.com

I've said it for years: the poor man's party has nothing to gain from their being fewer poor people.

CBO: Stimulus hurts economy in the long run

Democrats are the fascists