Pepper spray: US campus police suspended

Ikari · Nov 21, 2011

Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

LuckyDan said:
Not a damn thing.

Are you sure you posted that in the right thread?

Indeed I did. There is a right to assembly and protest; we should uphold and honor the exercise of that right to its fullest. If we have to leave some kids sitting across a sidewalk, so be it. At least you don't call down government force against their exercise of a right.

Cardinal · Nov 21, 2011

j-mac said:
What this says is kind of misleading then. Because the people interviewed are all over the board

Funny thing is I was aware from day one of the protests what their message was, which was to point out the richest people's involvement in forming government policy. I've never been able to understand what the confusion was over. Which interviews did you watch?

It would be like me saying the main message of the tea party was misleading because of all the news clips I watched of their members making irrelevant racist statements. But I still always knew what the meat of their message was, which is that government spends too much money and is bankrupting the country.

j-mac said:
, and if they are truly protesting "fighting back against the corrosive power of major banks and multinational corporations over the democratic process, and the role of Wall Street in creating an economic collapse that has caused the greatest recession in generations." Then they need to go protest the source of their ability to have done what they did, and that is in the Government,

But government is only one part of that. Plenty of people are aware that government is corrupt, but what not nearly so many people are painfully aware of is who is doing the corrupting. Wall street is a much more pertinent place for making that exact point than, say, the Capitol or the White House.

j-mac said:
at the door of Frank, and Dodd that made possible the removal of regulations that prevented this for decades.

j-mac

You believed that those regulations were positive? Who do you think was benefited by their removal, and who do you think most likely lobbied for their removal?

LuckyDan · Nov 21, 2011

Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

Ikari said:
Indeed I did. There is a right to assembly and protest; we should uphold and honor the exercise of that right to its fullest. If we have to leave some kids sitting across a sidewalk, so be it. At least you don't call down government force against their exercise of a right.

Is UC Davis public property? Is defying University officals a right?

Did these protesters apply for a permit to protest on public property?

Should any action at all have been taken against them? Should they have been allowed free reign on UCD property?

j-mac · Nov 21, 2011

Cardinal said:
Funny thing is I was aware from day one of the protests what their message was, which was to point out the richest people's involvement in forming government policy. I've never been able to understand what the confusion was over. Which interviews did you watch?

The ones not on MSNBC, or LINKTV.

But government is only one part of that. Plenty of people are aware that government is corrupt, but what not nearly so many people are painfully aware of is who is doing the corrupting. Wall street is a much more pertinent place for making that exact point than, say, the Capitol or the White House.

Oh please! The banks made them do it? That is the best you got? Look, none of what the banks did would have been possible without government allowing it to happen.

You believed that those regulations were positive? Who do you think was benefited by their removal, and who do you think most likely lobbied for their removal?

You must be kidding right? Watch this then get back to me....

j-mac

whysoserious · Nov 21, 2011

j-mac said:
You must be kidding right? Watch this then get back to me....

j-mac

This is off topic, but whatever. How do you allow yourself to be selectively mad? I think everyone agrees that the loans were bad and that is as much the consumer's fault as it is the bank's. However, you harbor only hatred towards the consumer and none towards the bank? And then, what of the shenanigans that took advantage of this situation? The Big Short doesn't bother you?

Cardinal · Nov 21, 2011

j-mac said:
The ones not on MSNBC, or LINKTV.

You must not have seen my edit. I also said, "It would be like me saying the main message of the tea party was misleading because of all the news clips I watched of their members making irrelevant racist statements. But I still always knew what the meat of their message was, which is that government spends too much money and is bankrupting the country."

j-mac said:
Oh please! The banks made them do it? That is the best you got? Look, none of what the banks did would have been possible without government allowing it to happen.

I think I see your confusion here. You think that the OWS movement is claiming that government is innocent and it's all the fault of the banks. That's not true. The OWS movement is shedding light on who is doing the corrupting. By doing this we get a clearer idea of who is benefited by the laws they lobby for.

j-mac said:
You must be kidding right? Watch this then get back to me....

j-mac

What I get from watching that video is that you're still stuck in Republican-vs-Democrat mode. Since both Republicans and Democrats are part of the problem your approach enlightens no one and accomplishes nothing. I'm not going to get involved in some stupid dick waving contest where you and I see who can dig up the most stories of the other side doing bad things. The point is the message of OWS, which is that the richest people have a disproportionate say in the making of government policy, and that those policies are bad for the rest of us (edit: or are, at the very best, not made with our benefit in mind).

j-mac · Nov 21, 2011

whysoserious said:
This is off topic, but whatever. How do you allow yourself to be selectively mad? I think everyone agrees that the loans were bad and that is as much the consumer's fault as it is the bank's. However, you harbor only hatred towards the consumer and none towards the bank? And then, what of the shenanigans that took advantage of this situation? The Big Short doesn't bother you?

Did you watch the clip? probably not seeing as that it is 8 plus minutes, and you had time to type a response in less time than the clip....So watch it, and you tell me.

j-mac

TheDemSocialist · Nov 21, 2011

j-mac said:
Did you watch the clip? probably not seeing as that it is 8 plus minutes, and you had time to type a response in less time than the clip....So watch it, and you tell me.

j-mac

The video has nothing to do with OWS!
The Occupy movement is not republican democrat, partisan hack issue.

LuckyDan · Nov 21, 2011

Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

Off topic but here is an item about the pepper spray thing.

A group of students who were pepper-sprayed and arrested Friday spoke to the crowd from a small stage, and were greeted by cheers of support as well as the chant, "Whose university is it? Our university!"

Hundreds of UC Davis students protest pepper-spraying by police - latimes.com

That they are able to speak at all, after their life-threatening assault, is a miracle. That their spirit is unbroken a tribute to the America to come.

Ikari · Nov 21, 2011

Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

LuckyDan said:
Is UC Davis public property?

It's a State school, yes?

LuckyDan said:
Is defying University officals a right?

It is an ability. The government is restricted, not the People.

LuckyDan said:
Did these protesters apply for a permit to protest on public property?

Assembly and protest are rights, they should require no permit on public property as such.

LuckyDan said:
Should any action at all have been taken against them? Should they have been allowed free reign on UCD property?

Yes, assembly and protest are rights; they had not infringed upon the rights of others. Until such time, they should be free to do as they like.

X Factor · Nov 21, 2011

TheDemSocialist said:
The video has nothing to do with OWS!
The Occupy movement is not republican democrat, partisan hack issue.

I have to laugh because we made the same argument about the TEA party, when, being honest, we all know it's a conservative movement. By the same token, OWS is strictly a left wing movement (and you can have them).

I've decided the right thing to do is to wash the pepper spray off the protesters...by waterboarding them. LOL

Temporal · Nov 21, 2011

X Factor said:
I have to laugh because we made the same argument about the TEA party, when, being honest, we all know it's a conservative movement. By the same token, OWS is strictly a left wing movement (and you can have them).

I've decided the right thing to do is to wash the pepper spray off the protesters...by waterboarding them. LOL

It's a shame that modern conservatives are nothing like their predecessors. As long as you support jackbooting of your political opponents or "liberals" just because you don't like what they have to say, then nobody in this country is going to have their freedoms for much longer.

For shame.

Cardinal · Nov 21, 2011

Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

LuckyDan said:
Off topic but here is an item about the pepper spray thing.

Hundreds of UC Davis students protest pepper-spraying by police - latimes.com

That they are able to speak at all, after their life-threatening assault, is a miracle. That their spirit is unbroken a tribute to the America to come.

If you're afraid that your cavalier attitude towards the students being pepper sprayed has gone unnoticed, perhaps I can alleviate your fears: we noticed.

LuckyDan · Nov 21, 2011

Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

Ikari said:
It's a State school, yes?

It is an ability. The government is restricted, not the People.

Assembly and protest are rights, they should require no permit on public property as such.

Yes, assembly and protest are rights; they had not infringed upon the rights of others. Until such time, they should be free to do as they like.

I stand corrected on many points. Thanks. Sorry to have wasted your time.

TheDemSocialist · Nov 21, 2011

X Factor said:
I have to laugh because we made the same argument about the TEA party, when, being honest, we all know it's a conservative movement. By the same token, OWS is strictly a left wing movement (and you can have them).

I never knew Ron Paul supporters and libertarians, and anarcho capitalists were left wing?
True the majority are "left wing" however tho...

I've decided the right thing to do is to wash the pepper spray off the protesters...by waterboarding them. LOL

:lamo
The macho merica bull****! Sooo ignorant.

LuckyDan · Nov 21, 2011

Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

Cardinal said:
If you're afraid that your cavalier attitude towards the students being pepper sprayed has gone unnoticed, perhaps I can alleviate your fears: we noticed.

Cool. Unsubscribing.

whysoserious · Nov 21, 2011

j-mac said:
Did you watch the clip? probably not seeing as that it is 8 plus minutes, and you had time to type a response in less time than the clip....So watch it, and you tell me.

j-mac

That still does not explain your ability to focus the blame on one party and one group. No one is disputing that some democrats made mistakes and some people took out loans they couldn't afford. Why is that the only thing you care about?

(And why are we talking about it on this thread?)

X Factor · Nov 21, 2011

Temporal said:
It's a shame that modern conservatives are nothing like their predecessors. As long as you support jackbooting of your political opponents or "liberals" just because you don't like what they have to say, then nobody in this country is going to have their freedoms for much longer.

For shame.

Pfffft, it's pepper spray. That's not a weapon, it's a condiment.

MaggieD · Nov 21, 2011

X Factor said:
Pfffft, it's pepper spray. That's not a weapon, it's a condiment.

:rofl !!!

My first German Shepherd puppy had a horrible habit of mouthing our hands. Though he didn't mean to, it hurt! Cuffing him didn't work....he thought I was playing. Sooooo, I got the bright idea that I'd put Tabasco sauce all over my hands one Saturday. Figured I'd have him broke of that habit in a day. Wellllll, he didn't seem to mind the Tabasco. Me??? My hands were on fire!!! all day long. Condiment indeed!

X Factor · Nov 21, 2011

MaggieD said:
:rofl !!!

My first German Shepherd puppy had a horrible habit of mouthing our hands. Though he didn't mean to, it hurt! Cuffing him didn't work....he thought I was playing. Sooooo, I got the bright idea that I'd put Tabasco sauce all over my hands one Saturday. Figured I'd have him broke of that habit in a day. Wellllll, he didn't seem to mind the Tabasco. Me??? My hands were on fire!!! all day long. Condiment indeed!

Maggie, I totally lol'd. :lol: Awesome story (also nice to see someone have a sense of humor about this

).

X Factor · Nov 21, 2011

whysoserious said:
That still does not explain your ability to focus the blame on one party and one group. No one is disputing that some democrats made mistakes and some people took out loans they couldn't afford. Why is that the only thing you care about?

Really? In all the talk about "predatory lending" I've heard precious few actually acknowledge that the borrowers bear some of the responsibility for agreeing to loans they couldn't afford.

(And why are we talking about it on this thread?)

Well, I am because this is where your post I responded to is. BTW, I genuinely like your sig. O'reilly is such a dope.

VanceMack · Nov 21, 2011

Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

CriticalThought said:
Be honest. If somebody had died from a health reaction to the spray, would it have changed how you feel about the situation one bit?

Id feel really sad that someone that had asthma was so stupid they didnt get up when the reality of being pepper sprayed presented itself. But hey...nationwide...just a guess...how many dirtbags get pepper sprayed by cops because they are being dirtbags and refusing to comply with lawful orders? That so many people are whining about this is comical. This happens daily when people refuse to follow the law.

VanceMack · Nov 21, 2011

Cardinal said:
By the way, it took me an exhaustive six seconds to find Occupy Wallstreet's message on google.

About Us | OccupyWallSt.org

Read that paragraph carefully and you'll find nothing about antisemitism, anarchy or the abolishing of this country.

So now that you know what their message is, Jmac, are you on board?

So OWS is protesting all those corrupt piece of **** democrats lining their pockets with banker, broker, and union dollars? Well...ok...but that doesnt change what the UC Davis people were protesting about...their student loans.

Antiderivative · Nov 21, 2011

Lundberg v. County of Humboldt (2005): Pepper spraying non violent protesters violates the 4th.

San Francisco -- An eight-person federal jury returned a unanimous verdict for the Q-Tip Pepper Spray Eight activists/plaintiffs, finding the County of Humboldt and City of Eureka liable for excessive force in violation of the 4th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

Humboldt County Sheriff's Deputies and Eureka Police Officers used unconstitutional excessive force when they applied pepper spray with Q-tips directly to the eyes of the eight nonviolent forest defense protesters in three incidents in 1997. Three of the activists were also sprayed directly in the eyes from inches away. Two of the young women were juveniles, aged 16 and 17.

Former Sheriff Dennis Lewis and current Sheriff Gary Philp also were found liable for causing the use of excessive force by setting policies allowing the unprecedented use of pepper spray on the passive demonstrators, who had locked their arms together inside metal pipes.

No Pepper Spray on Nonviolent Protesters http://www.nopepperspray.org/opposition_to_certiorari.pdf

VanceMack · Nov 21, 2011

Its so horrible!!! Ahhh!!!

Pepper spray: US campus police suspended

Ikari

Cardinal

Respected On All Sides

LuckyDan

j-mac

whysoserious

Cardinal

Respected On All Sides

j-mac

TheDemSocialist

Gradualist

LuckyDan

Ikari

X Factor

Anti-Socialist

Temporal

Cardinal

Respected On All Sides

LuckyDan

TheDemSocialist

Gradualist

LuckyDan

whysoserious

X Factor

Anti-Socialist

MaggieD

X Factor

Anti-Socialist

X Factor

Anti-Socialist

VanceMack

Less like the tiger...more like the lion.

VanceMack

Less like the tiger...more like the lion.

Antiderivative

VanceMack

Less like the tiger...more like the lion.