• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Pepper spray: US campus police suspended

Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

j-mac said:
Not a good analogy at all. The civil rights movement was truly a peaceful movement. This one is not.


j-mac
Click to expand...

Oh you decide which movements have merit now? What world do you live in!? :lamo
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

j-mac said:
Not a good analogy at all. The civil rights movement was truly a peaceful movement. This one is not.


j-mac
Click to expand...

Sooooo....what exactly is so violent about sitting with your arms interlocked?
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

CriticalThought said:
Sooooo....what exactly is so violent about sitting with your arms interlocked?
Click to expand...

No one is saying that action is a violent one. But let's take a sober look at this ok?

The officers were dispatched to remove tents, not protesters, tents from the quad. When they arrived they were surrounded by 200 protesters, giving them no way out, and cutting them off from back up. So whether or not you view the beautifully edited snippet of video and think it is ok to surround police, and cut them off from back up is ok, or not, you get what you get if you are warned, and ignore the warning.

j-mac
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

whysoserious said:
Oh you decide which movements have merit now? What world do you live in!? :lamo
Click to expand...

I know what is laughable is to compare protesting for the equal rights of black people to have a fair shake in society is a far cry from over indulged collage students wanting their loans paid off.

j-mac
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

j-mac said:
No one is saying that action is a violent one. But let's take a sober look at this ok?

The officers were dispatched to remove tents, not protesters, tents from the quad. When they arrived they were surrounded by 200 protesters, giving them no way out, and cutting them off from back up. So whether or not you view the beautifully edited snippet of video and think it is ok to surround police, and cut them off from back up is ok, or not, you get what you get if you are warned, and ignore the warning.

j-mac
Click to expand...

You want to take a sober look? Okay. An officer was surrounded by agitated protesters. He walked up to the least threatening of the protesters who were sitting the ground. Made a big show of shaking the can and looking at the crowd. He then calmly walked back and forth spraying all the seated protesters despite the growing agitation of those surrounding him.

To me this looks like a cop who was trying to incite the crowd into violence. He knew the crowd was agitated and he wanted to push them over the edge and get them to react in a violent manner by attacking the protesters who were sitting and posed no threat. I would say his behavior was aimed not at protecting the public and property, but at inciting the crowd to become violent.
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

j-mac said:
I know what is laughable is to compare protesting for the equal rights of black people to have a fair shake in society is a far cry from over indulged collage students wanting their loans paid off.

j-mac
Click to expand...

j-mac, do you think people in 1955 respected Rosa Parks and her cause? A great majority would have loved to see her pepper sprayed. That's why your opinion on the cause should not change their ability to protest.

Are you really not seeing this or are you just refusing to admit that pepper spraying people who are sitting down is probably a bad move?
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

CriticalThought said:
You want to take a sober look? Okay. An officer was surrounded by agitated protesters. He walked up to the least threatening of the protesters who were sitting the ground. Made a big show of shaking the can and looking at the crowd. He then calmly walked back and forth spraying all the seated protesters despite the growing agitation of those surrounding him.

To me this looks like a cop who was trying to incite the crowd into violence. He knew the crowd was agitated and he wanted to push them over the edge and get them to react in a violent manner by attacking the protesters who were sitting and posed no threat. I would say his behavior was aimed not at protecting the public and property, but at inciting the crowd to become violent.
Click to expand...


So, it is ok with you to surround police, and ignore their orders even when they tell you force is about to be used....Got it...I guess rule of law is subjective in your world.


j-mac
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

whysoserious said:
Are you really not seeing this or are you just refusing to admit that pepper spraying people who are sitting down is probably a bad move?
Click to expand...

He is being partisan about something that has nothing to do with partisanship. His uninformed view of the college protesters and what they were protesting is more than enough proof of it.
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

whysoserious said:
j-mac, do you think people in 1955 respected Rosa Parks and her cause? A great majority would have loved to see her pepper sprayed. That's why your opinion on the cause should not change their ability to protest.

Are you really not seeing this or are you just refusing to admit that pepper spraying people who are sitting down is probably a bad move?
Click to expand...

I don't think that the protests of 1955 on have the slightest thing at all in common with OWS, and their message of anti capitalism, and whining over having to pay back contracts they agreed to.

j-mac
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

j-mac said:
So, it is ok with you to surround police, and ignore their orders even when they tell you force is about to be used....Got it...I guess rule of law is subjective in your world.


j-mac
Click to expand...

A police officer is not the "rule of law". A police officer is an enforcer of the laws and is subject to them just like the rest of us. This was an example of excessive force by a police officer, which makes the police officer a criminal.
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

j-mac said:
Not a good analogy at all. The civil rights movement was truly a peaceful movement. This one is not.


j-mac
Click to expand...

I am sure that when they were being sprayed down by hoses and had dogs sicked on them that someone like you said:

j-mac said:
They were told to disburse, and the crowd, those of whom these jack asses were a part of defied the order. They were informed that force would be used, they sat, and got sprayed....I don't feel sorry for them in any manner at all.

j-mac
Click to expand...
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

CriticalThought said:
He is being partisan about something that has nothing to do with partisanship. His uninformed view of the college protesters and what they were protesting is more than enough proof of it.
Click to expand...


Um....excuse me. Just who the hell do you think you are arrogantly talking about here? Did I give you permission to speak for me? No I don't think I did. Instead of violating rules, let's talk.

j-mac
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

Blue_State said:
I am sure that when they were being sprayed down by hoses and had dogs sicked on them that someone like you said:
Click to expand...

It's amazing how history repeats itself and those with prejudice always remain the same even when the subject of the prejudice changes.
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

j-mac said:
I don't think that the protests of 1955 on have the slightest thing at all in common with OWS, and their message of anti capitalism, and whining over having to pay back contracts they agreed to.

j-mac
Click to expand...

That's not your job to decide the validity of protests! And moreover, the validity of the protest itself is completely unrelated to the right to protest. It wasn't written in the Constitution that ****ty protests can be forcibly dispersed, but protests with a real cause cannot. We all get it, j-mac, you don't agree with the protests, but that doesn't change the fact that you think Rosa Parks should have been sprayed in the face with mace for civil disobedience.
 
Last edited:
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

whysoserious said:
That's not your job to decide the validity of protests! It wasn't written in the Constitution that ****ty protests can be forcibly dispersed, but protests with a real cause cannot. We all get it, j-mac, you don't agree with the protests, but that doesn't change the fact that you think Rosa Parks should have been sprayed in the face with mace for civil disobedience.
Click to expand...


Now you are just lying. Show me right now where I said I though Rosa Parks should be pepper sprayed. If you can't then we are done here.

j-mac
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

Blue_State said:
I am sure that when they were being sprayed down by hoses and had dogs sicked on them that someone like you said:
Click to expand...

there may have been, there may not have been. Are you really calling me a racist because I don't support OWS?

j-mac
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

j-mac said:
Now you are just lying. Show me right now where I said I though Rosa Parks should be pepper sprayed. If you can't then we are done here.

j-mac
Click to expand...

Sure:

You believe these people, though they were sitting on the ground in docile positions with their arms locked, deserved to be pepper sprayed in the face because the cause they are protesting is not valid. Popular sentiment in 1955 was that the cause Rosa Parks was protesting was not valid either, ergo Rosa Parks should get pepper sprayed in the face when she refuses to leave her seat and the cops have to be called.

If the opinion of a protest determines its validity, and therefore its right to exist, then Rosa Parks would definitely be pepper sprayed. Moreover, those kinds of things did happen to civil rights protesters in the (as a previous poster pointed out).
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

j-mac said:
Um....excuse me. Just who the hell do you think you are arrogantly talking about here? Did I give you permission to speak for me? No I don't think I did. Instead of violating rules, let's talk.

j-mac
Click to expand...

You wanna talk? Okay. Your behavior in this thread is bigoted. You misrepresent what the protesters were protesting. You misrepresent the facts of the situation even though the video makes it clear the protesters sitting on the ground who were the subject of the police officer's force were of no threat. You justify the use of this excessive force by suggesting their civil disobedience was asking for it. You equate the cops to the law rather than subject to it.

Your hatred of the protesters blinds you to being rational or compassionate to any humane degree and your justification is nothing but criminal thinking, an attempt to rationalize the criminal behavior of that officer.
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

j-mac said:
The police have a job to do, and gave warning that the spray would be used, then they were surrounded. The protesters got not only what they deserved in this case, but were warned beforehand, and you just go ahead and surround a police officer and see what you get. That can be construed as a threat.

j-mac
Click to expand...

Nice authoritarian argument there. Shouldn't there be....I don't know....actual PROOF they were a threat? Not speculation? They were not a threat no matter how much you want to spin it that way for government authority.
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

j-mac said:
there may have been, there may not have been. Are you really calling me a racist because I don't support OWS?

j-mac
Click to expand...

Ignorant would be the right word. Ignorant in that you believe you have the ability to invalidate a peaceful protest, and, at the same time, validate violence used against them because you have invalidated their movement. That's some circuclar logic there, I agree.
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

whysoserious said:
Sure:

You believe these people, though they were sitting on the ground in docile positions with their arms locked, deserved to be pepper sprayed in the face because the cause they are protesting is not valid. Popular sentiment in 1955 was that the cause Rosa Parks was protesting was not valid either, ergo Rosa Parks should get pepper sprayed in the face when she refuses to leave her seat and the cops have to be called.

If the opinion of a protest determines its validity, and therefore its right to exist, then Rosa Parks would definitely be pepper sprayed. Moreover, those kinds of things did happen to civil rights protesters in the (as a previous poster pointed out).
Click to expand...

Popular sentiment doesn't mean his views on it... So where did he say such things again?
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

CriticalThought said:
You wanna talk? Okay. Your behavior in this thread is bigoted. You misrepresent what the protesters were protesting. You misrepresent the facts of the situation even though the video makes it clear the protesters sitting on the ground who were the subject of the police officer's force were of no threat. You justify the use of this excessive force by suggesting their civil disobedience was asking for it. You equate the cops to the law rather than subject to it.

Your hatred of the protesters blinds you to being rational or compassionate to any humane degree and your justification is nothing but criminal thinking, an attempt to rationalize the criminal behavior of that officer.
Click to expand...

I have not seen much argument from that ilk that is much different. It's all biased, partisan, and extremely lenient of government force against free exercise of rights. It takes a lot of back bone and conviction to be able to stand for ALL assembly and protest; not just the ones you like. Some just don't got it.
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

Free For All said:
Popular sentiment doesn't mean his views on it... So where did he say such things again?
Click to expand...

Do we agree that he believes they can be pepper sprayed because he has determined their cause to be invalid? I'll move forward from there.
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

Ikari said:
Nice authoritarian argument there. Shouldn't there be....I don't know....actual PROOF they were a threat? Not speculation? They were not a threat no matter how much you want to spin it that way for government authority.
Click to expand...

The worrisome part is that he could use the same rationalization to justify lethal force.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom