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Pepper spray: US campus police suspended

Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

3. the protesters surrounded the police as they were leaving, cutting them off from back up, or exit routes.

Bullcrap. Video doesn't lie, unlike you.



I don't even support the Occupy movement, and now I sure as hell want to just to spite people like you who would spit on rights just because you hate the protesters.
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

What is excessive about it? Tell me when surrounded with agitated (by your own words) protesters what should they have done....Said pretty please?

j-mac

Not my words, but whatever. Why not pepper spray the "agitated" crowd then, instead of the group of people sitting on the ground with their arms interlocked? You've seen the video, right? Even after being sprayed they were docile, which is impressive. Look, guy, when this is happening, I don't see how you can defend it:

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I don't care if she sat there for 3 years, pepper spraying an 84-year old lady can't be construed as anything other than brutal. They are lucky she was in good health because she could have died from suffocation.
 
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Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

lol, talking about Rosa Parks being told to leave... not the civil rights protest. In the civil rights protest they didn't occupy streets for long periods of time. Now, did they?

So you compare one person's act of protest from 1955 to a group of people protesting for 2 months? The actions of Rosa Parks lasted some 13 years until the civil rights movement ended.
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

There were plenty of various forms of protest from peaceful to those calling for violence. We have the right to peacefully assemble and protest. No where does that say it's subjected to time spans.

You have the right to assemble and protest. Gotcha. Never disagreed.
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

So you compare one person's act of protest from 1955 to a group of people protesting for 2 months? The actions of Rosa Parks lasted some 13 years until the civil rights movement ended.

Your little buddies started comparing not me... Go back and read.
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

And you demonstrate your disdain for freedom.


And you demonstrate you disdain for law enforcement, and the rule of law. good show.

You essentially say that the police just have to say they have to move and if they don't then they can use force.

Is it peaceful to surround police?

That's government force against the free exercise of rights and has no limitations set upon the State for what it can and cannot "disperse".

The free exercise of rights does not include surrounding police. That is a clear threat.

It in essence can say any and all assembly and protest can be told to "disperse" and if not, then force can be used.

All? No, I don't think I said that, but nice strawman. This was, is, and continues to be an illegal protest. No permit, no regard for property rights, and wholly bent on provoking clashes with police at any turn to prompt coverage. that is called anarchy. Is that what Libertarians believe.

j-mac
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

You have the right to assemble and protest. Gotcha. Never disagreed.

Apparently the cops have the right to shoot you in the head if they tell you to stop assembling and protesting.
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

You have the right to assemble and protest. Gotcha. Never disagreed.

Apparently you do because you seem very willing to excuse government force being used seemingly arbitrarily against assembly and protest.
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

Is it peaceful to surround police?

Is it peaceful to lie through your teeth over and over? They didn't surround the police. You can see in the video that the police could have left if they wanted and that they had the seated protesters surrounded, not the other way around.
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

And you demonstrate you disdain for law enforcement, and the rule of law. good show.

Not disdain, but rather limited and regulated amount. Government is to be restricted.

Is it peaceful to surround police?

It can be, yes.

The free exercise of rights does not include surrounding police. That is a clear threat.

No it's not. That's some make believe you put in your head to argue against assembly and protest rights. Government is restricted, not the People. There was a time when "conservatives" understood that.

All? No, I don't think I said that, but nice strawman. This was, is, and continues to be an illegal protest. No permit, no regard for property rights, and wholly bent on provoking clashes with police at any turn to prompt coverage. that is called anarchy. Is that what Libertarians believe.

The protest was peaceful, there is no permit for GOVERNMENT to act against it. In fact, it is specifically FORBIDDEN from doing so.
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

Not my words, but whatever.

Sorry, I thought that was you...If I was mistaken, I don't want to attribute something to you that you didn't say.



Why not pepper spray the "agitated" crowd then, instead of the group of people sitting on the ground with their arms interlocked?

All we have is a 1:05 minute snippet of video. Do you think that the confrontation lasted a little longer than that? Do you know for a fact what happened before this moment in time?

Even after being sprayed they were docile, which is impressive.

Pepper spray used for crowd control is quite debilitating...I am not surprised at all. That is what this is for, so that they don't have to crack your head with a club.

j-mac
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

The free exercise of rights does not include surrounding police. That is a clear threat.

If the police were worried about those "surrounding them", they would have maced those people instead of macing the ones sitting down.
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

I just hate how you guys only care about these dirty hippies and not every other citizen that lives in that city.
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

What is excessive about it? Tell me when surrounded with agitated (by your own words) protesters what should they have done....Said pretty please?

j-mac

Alright, let's assume for a moment that you are correct that the police were surrounded by agitated and possibly dangerous protestors(which I don't think you are correct), and you are fearing for your safety, why would you pepper spray the LEAST threatening protestors sitting down? It makes NO SENSE PERIOD.
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

Sorry, I thought that was you...If I was mistaken, I don't want to attribute something to you that you didn't say.

All we have is a 1:05 minute snippet of video. Do you think that the confrontation lasted a little longer than that? Do you know for a fact what happened before this moment in time?

Pepper spray used for crowd control is quite debilitating...I am not surprised at all. That is what this is for, so that they don't have to crack your head with a club.

j-mac

Pepper spray can be lethal and people have died from it. As a means to control a crowd that is becoming violent or out-of-control, I can see it's purpose. Yeah, you're right, we only see 1:05 of this clip, but unless you can explain why the people who were sprayed were sitting down, I am not sure I get your point.

If I am at a bar and 3 guys are in my face and I turn around and punch a guy sitting down and minding his own business, how does that make sense?
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

No, worse, they had to smell that awful hippy stench.

Well olfactory offense is not a right, so I guess we'll have to keep supporting the rights of the individual in this case.
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

I just hate how you guys only care about these dirty hippies and not every other citizen that lives in that city.

Actually, I care for anyone who gets their rights violated by our government.
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

Well olfactory offense is not a right, so I guess we'll have to keep supporting the rights of the individual in this case.

I admit I did laugh. I will picture him as Cartman from here on out, though.
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

Pepper spray can be lethal and people have died from it. As a means to control a crowd that is becoming violent or out-of-control, I can see it's purpose. Yeah, you're right, we only see 1:05 of this clip, but unless you can explain why the people who were sprayed were sitting down, I am not sure I get your point.

If I am at a bar and 3 guys are in my face and I turn around and punch a guy sitting down and minding his own business, how does that make sense?

All it did was make my eyes water... and its killed people!??! ****, I'm tougher than I thought.
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

All we have is a 1:05 minute snippet of video. Do you think that the confrontation lasted a little longer than that? Do you know for a fact what happened before this moment in time?

What the hell are you talking about?





 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

For those of you who don't know, pepper spray is non-lethal, but that doesn't mean it can't kill:
Reduced Breathing
A natural incapacitating effect of pepper spray is the swelling of the linings of the nose and throat. This will make breathing difficult for anyone, but for those with preexisting respiratory problems, such as asthma, it can lead to more severe problems.

Skin Irritation
Chemical burns, blistering and sores can result from naturally and artificially derived pepper spray. This reaction is more likely in individuals who are allergic to oleoresin capsicum, or who have had allergic reaction to peppers in the past.

Eye Irritation
Pepper spray is usually sprayed at the face, particularly the eyes. It typically causes tearing, redness, pain and, in some cases, swelling and chemical burns around the eye area.

Temporary Blindness
Some people experience temporary blindness after being exposed to pepper spray. This typically lasts no more than 30 minutes to an hour, but it can be frightening. There have been no studies related to the long-term effects of temporary blindness resulting from exposure to pepper spray.

Death
Although it is rare, death can result from exposure to pepper spray. Deaths related to pepper spray are usually due to advanced age, preexisting heart conditions, or preexisting respiratory problems. Those with severe allergies to oleoresin capsicum may experience shock or become unable to breathe once exposed to pepper spray, leading to suffocation and death.

That is why these methods, while effective, should be reserved as a last resort.
 
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