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Ohio Mom Charged in Death of 28-Pound Teen Daughter

whysoserious said:
Here are all the of the posts.

























Not by your posts and the posts of others. Please highlight to me the areas where you and others made it clear that you did not already prejudge all 4 of these women? I don't think MaggieD would even bother saying she didn't, since she said it explicitly a few times (along with a couple of others). In fact, you even quoted her post (the second post in the entire thread) and said you agreed that all 4 should be in jail.

So, again, you guys literally know nothing about any of these women and you've already sentenced them to jail, and, a couple of you, to Hell. That's pretty awesome. Admittedly, for the mother and the daily nurse, things aren't looking so good.
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apparently you missed the post where I specifically called out mom and the nurse :shrug:

as I said, maybe I am jaded and cynical. I was a foster parent for 8 years and dealt with many "social workers". almost without exception, they were fat ladies with a chip on their shoulder who acted like they were doing you a favor anytime you asked them to do their job.
 
OscarB63 said:
apparently you missed the post where I specifically called out mom and the nurse :shrug:

as I said, maybe I am jaded and cynical. I was a foster parent for 8 years and dealt with many "social workers". almost without exception, they were fat ladies with a chip on their shoulder who acted like they were doing you a favor anytime you asked them to do their job.
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Where did that happen? I quoted everything you said in this thread so I am not sure where I "missed it". I am just responding to attacks against me. I like to see due process and I like to know why things happen. I do not see the harm in that.
 
whysoserious said:
Here are all the of the posts.

Not by your posts and the posts of others. Please highlight to me the areas where you and others made it clear that you did not already prejudge all 4 of these women? I don't think MaggieD would even bother saying she didn't, since she said it explicitly a few times (along with a couple of others). In fact, you even quoted her post (the second post in the entire thread) and said you agreed that all 4 should be in jail.

So, again, you guys literally know nothing about any of these women and you've already sentenced them to jail, and, a couple of you, to Hell. That's pretty awesome. Admittedly, for the mother and the daily nurse, things aren't looking so good.
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You're claiming that possibly they did nothing wrong?

I'm not passing judgment in a judicial way per their level of guilt and sentencing so leave me out of your finger pointing, there. However - I think the basic facts of this situation are completely obvious and undeniable and they themselves likely can't even argue against them - things are what they are:

The teen was confined to her home and was supposed to be cared for by her mother and Parsons, a licensed practical nurse whose job was to administer care for the girl six days a week, according to the prosecutor.

Williams and Kilby are registered nurses, the prosecutor's office said. Williams was paid to supervise Parsons and visit and inspect the living conditions and do a physical assessment of the girl every 30 to 60 days. Kilby was scheduled to visit every six months to also check on conditions of the home and assess the girl's health, needs and care, the statement said.
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Obviously they had certain job responsibilities - and seeing as how she was neglected, withered away, and died as a result - the prevention of which WAS their job . . . I'd think it's just inarguable to state that they failed to do their jobs.

But by all means: if you feel they might have fulfilled their duties and satisfied their job requirements point it out.

If - as the case proceeds - evidence come forth proving otherwise then that wold be quite satisfactory. But based on how things are right now - that's how it is.

And i think you're just conjuring up recollections of people's past responses to things such as Casey Anthony's case (etc) and imagining that people are responding to this case the same way. In comparison - from what I remember - things in this thread have been extremely docile and polite.

There's nothing wrong with people trying to discern guilt in any case based on facts reported and presented - if people stopped doing this I'd actually worry about Humanities new found lack of concern, awareness and involvement.
 
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So you aren't interested in anything other than these people burning, eh? You don't care to find out any root causes for the issue or preventing them from happening again? Good to know.
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Where did that happen? I quoted everything you said in this thread so I am not sure where I "missed it". I am just responding to attacks against me. I like to see due process and I like to know why things happen. I do not see the harm in that.
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The pay of social workers is irrelevant. It does not matter. Neither do her working conditions. How exactly does blaming her wages prevent this from happening again. I dont care if this woman was being paid absolutely nothing and being forced to into that home against her will. She needs to deal with that through the labor department, her employer or whom ever else. You don't take it out on a 14 year old girl with cerebral palsy who is depending on you to take care of her.
 
muciti said:
The pay of social workers is irrelevant. It does not matter. Neither do her working conditions. How exactly does blaming her wages prevent this from happening again. I dont care if this woman was being paid absolutely nothing and being forced to into that home against her will. She needs to deal with that through the labor department, her employer or whom ever else. You don't take it out on a 14 year old girl with cerebral palsy who is depending on you to take care of her.
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Exactly - dissatisfaction with pay for ANYONE should be dealt with properly and isn't even related to this situation at all.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
If - as the case proceeds - evidence come forth proving otherwise then that wold be quite satisfactory. But based on how things are right now - that's how it is.

And i think you're just conjuring up recollections of people's past responses to things such as Casey Anthony's case (etc) and imagining that people are responding to this case the same way. In comparison - from what I remember - things in this thread have been extremely docile and polite.

There's nothing wrong with people trying to discern guilt in any case based on facts reported and presented - if people stopped doing this I'd actually worry about Humanities new found lack of concern, awareness and involvement.
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I am conjuring things up? I have never once said any one of these ladies is innocent of anything, and you, along with a few others, seem to to be accusing me of all sorts of shenanigans. I have done nothing other than point to a flaw that I see in our system and as something that should be looked for in this case, and told people to tone down the "they should burn in Hell" rhetoric. Please, tell me if anything in there is wrong, because I do not see it.

muciti said:
The pay of social workers is irrelevant. It does not matter. Neither do her working conditions. How exactly does blaming her wages prevent this from happening again. I dont care if this woman was being paid absolutely nothing and being forced to into that home against her will. She needs to deal with that through the labor department, her employer or whom ever else. You don't take it out on a 14 year old girl with cerebral palsy who is depending on you to take care of her.
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Again, you mixing up causes with excuses. Perhaps this is partially my fault for using the word "her" when there are more than one women involved. Keep in mind, there are three government employees being charged here, not just one. Also keep in mind you also only have statements from the prosecutor and none from the defense. I guarantee you not one of us even has close to the full scope of what went on here, and passing judgment at this point would be quite obtuse.

Lastly, I am only attempting to point to a flaw in the system that I know first hand - and that flaw is that social workers are generally underpaid, under appreciated, and over worked. Does that excuse negligence? Of course not, but it can be a cause of negligence.
 
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Again, you mixing up causes with excuses. Perhaps this is partially my fault for using the word "her" when there are more than one women involved. Keep in mind, there are three government employees being charged here, not just one. Keep in mind you also only have statements from the prosecutor and none from the defense. I guarantee you not one of us even has close to the full scope of what went on here, and passing judgment at this point would be quite obtuse.
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28lb 14 year old girl died who was under the care of this woman and her own mother. There is no defense for that.

Lastly, I am only attempting to point to a flaw in the system that I know first hand - and that flaw is that social workers are generally underpaid, under appreciated, and over worked. Does that excuse negligence? Of course not, but it can be a cause of negligence.
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It does not cause it. Being underpaid does not cause hate for a 14 year old girl. Especially not to this degree.
 
muciti said:
28lb 14 year old girl died who was under the care of this woman and her own mother. There is no defense for that.
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There are four women involved. And I agree, there would be no decent defense against that for the primary nurse and the mother unless the prosecutor is not being truthful.

muciti said:
It does not cause it. Being underpaid does not cause hate for a 14 year old girl. Especially not to this degree.
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I don't know how to address this statement. What the hell are you talking about? Take a deep breath, relax a minute, and try to comprehend this.

1) You read two-three paragraphs. That means you know ****.
2) There are four women being charged, not two.
3) You literally know nothing about any of those four women.
4) You have not heard a defense from any of the women.

Capiche?
 
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whysoserious said:
I am conjuring things up? I have never once said any one of these ladies is innocent of anything, and you, along with a few others, seem to to be accusing me of all sorts of shenanigans. I have done nothing other than point to a flaw that I see in our system and as something that should be looked for in this case, and told people to tone down the "they should burn in Hell" rhetoric. Please, tell me if anything in there is wrong, because I do not see it.



Again, you mixing up causes with excuses. Perhaps this is partially my fault for using the word "her" when there are more than one women involved. Keep in mind, there are three government employees being charged here, not just one. Also keep in mind you also only have statements from the prosecutor and none from the defense. I guarantee you not one of us even has close to the full scope of what went on here, and passing judgment at this point would be quite obtuse.

Lastly, I am only attempting to point to a flaw in the system that I know first hand - and that flaw is that social workers are generally underpaid, under appreciated, and over worked. Does that excuse negligence? Of course not, but it can be a cause of negligence.
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Sounds like you are their union rep.
 
TOJ said:
Sounds like you are their union rep.
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Yeah, due process is a bitch. If only we could get around that pesky system, then people like you and others on this thread could continue banishing people to burn in hell after reading 3 paragraphs. Good job, man!
 
Government jobs are, and SHOULD be, the lowest paid around, for the work rendered. There is a REASON we call it PUBLIC SERVICE.


As for this OP...this is horrible. And while I would consider this to be a "worst case" scenario, I have heard of, and can probably dig up, COUNTLESS stories of abuse and negligence in social services across the country, all recent and relevant. You want to REALLY get sick to your stomach? Look what they're doing to native american kids in various reservations.
 
This is what is wrong with our health care system. Far too often nurses are given the responsibilities that once were with doctors. A doctor would be less likely to allow this to happen. They have much more to lose.
 
whysoserious said:
Yeah, due process is a bitch. If only we could get around that pesky system, then people like you and others on this thread could continue banishing people to burn in hell after reading 3 paragraphs. Good job, man!
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Your switching your argument from:

I am not excusing their actions, but you could probably look towards their salary and work conditions. Try being a social worker for a few months and you'll see what I mean.
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IOW, "they probably aren't paid very much" to the new tack of "due process" is an strawman lost on very few people, WSS. You were wrong. Money should have nothing to do with it. Due Processis a given in the USA.
 
Thorgasm said:
This is what is wrong with our health care system. Far too often nurses are given the responsibilities that once were with doctors. A doctor would be less likely to allow this to happen. They have much more to lose.
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That's true. Many of them do not have the skills for the jobs, many are over worked, and many are underpaid. I was at my Uncle's house after his second stroke, and a nurse was going to stop by for an out-patient treatment. To keep the story short I will just preface it with he had just had his second stroke in a year, and he couldn't move his right-side well. After the first stroke, they were supposed to do a follow up scan on his brain, but no one ever contacted him again and he went back to work. After the second stroke, he went to get care at Duke University, and they found the abnormal blood vessels in his brain that caused the issue. Anyway, he told me to watch the interaction with the nurse because it would be funny as ****.

She came in and began asking really basic stuff, and displayed clearly that she had no idea of anything other than the fact that he had a stroke. She did not know he had more than one, she didn't know what the cause was, and she did not know the treatment to solve the issue. Clearly he was annoyed. She tried to jump straight to the rehab section, fully unaware that if she doing physical rehab that point could easily cause him to stroke again. In the end it was an hour wasted and nothing done (and if something was done it could have killed him). In the end, being mad at her would be useless - it wasn't her fault.
 
MaggieD said:
Your switching your argument from:

IOW, "they probably aren't paid very much" to the new tack of "due process" is an strawman lost on very few people, WSS. You were wrong. Money should have nothing to do with it. Due Processis a given in the USA.
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Yeah, that's part of due process. Again, if you found out that the two supervisors had so much work on their desks that they rarely ever got to visit patients, what then? Should they still burn in hell, Maggie? I don't see how the live-in nurse has much of a defense if any, but I haven't heard her side of the story yet so I'll refrain from judgment.

It truly is a sad story either way, but why you are so thirsty for blood is an issue you may want to look inward about.

*Edit:

And again, I tried to make it as clear as possible that I was not relating the pay and work conditions as any sort of excuse for actions. Just as a cause for apathy and poor performance (and in the field of health - poor performance means people die).
 
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whysoserious said:
Yeah, due process is a bitch. If only we could get around that pesky system, then people like you and others on this thread could continue banishing people to burn in hell after reading 3 paragraphs. Good job, man!
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Well sweetie, I did not say a word about banishing anyone to hell in my one post in this thread.

I just find it amazing that you have been jumping through hoops trying to justify their actions (actually inaction I'm thinkin).

Claiming it is due to pay rate and working conditions is disgusting. Now, at this stage, you switch to due process. Then you claim you are not excusing them.

Seems to me it would be kind of hard to think they did what they were supposed to but I guess some people can rationalize anything if they try hard enough.

.
 
TOJ said:
Well sweetie, I did not say a word about banishing anyone to hell in my one post in this thread.

I just find it amazing that you have been jumping through hoops trying to justify their actions (actually inaction I'm thinkin).

Claiming it is due to pay rate and working conditions is disgusting. Now, at this stage, you switch to due process. Then you claim you are not excusing them.

Seems to me it would be kind of hard to think they did what they were supposed to but I guess some people can rationalize anything if they try hard enough.

.
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I am sorry, but at no point did I try to justify their actions. If it shown that any or all of them were incompetent or negligent, then appropriate legal punishment should be levied. You won't get an argument from me there. Again, you like many, seem to be confusing reason with excuse. It reminds me of this story:

American Airlines Flight 587
This plane crashed simply due to one thing: over use of the rudder. Now, I am no flight engineer, but I do have an understanding of what happened here. These pilots were taught that appropriate response to turbulence was use of the rudder to control the aircraft and make the flight as comfortable as possible for the passengers. This control is extremely sensitive and does not require much force. The pilot interpreted the aircraft's wild behavior as turbulence and began using the rudder more and more - eventually causing it to rip off and the plane to come crashing down.

First, the first officer's predisposition to overreact to wake turbulence; second, the training provided by American Airlines that could have encouraged pilots to make large flight control inputs; third, the first officer likely did not understand an airplane's response to large rudder inputs at high airspeeds or the mechanism by which the rudder rolls a transport-category airplane; finally, light rudder pedal forces and small pedal displacement of the A300-600 rudder pedal system increased the airplane's susceptibility to a rudder misuse.
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So, as you can see, this was entirely pilot error. This investigation revealed the reason that the crash occurred and why the pilot overreacted with the rudder controls, but it does not absolve the pilot of error. I just happen to prefer to understand why things happen instead of saying, "well he was a ****ty pilot". There is always more to the story and I think that is worth knowing.
 
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MaggieD said:
How does how much someone makes contribute to a person acting so irresponsibly as to watch a young woman starve to death? You say, "You look for a reason." Yes, one does.

The reason all three of these women (social workers/nurse) let this poor girl starve to death is become they were lazy ****s who did the bare minimum they had to do to collect their checks. And not an ounce more. I hope they go to jail for negligent homicide.
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So why did they become social workers? Why didn't more people who care and are responsible and smart become social workers? Maybe because of the salary and work conditions? So then you might ask yourself, is it okay that social services have salary and work conditions that attract mostly people who "did the bare minimum they had to do to collect their checks. And not an ounce more", if this problem is widespread in social services? Or maybe it's better to not have social services at all? If the two options are both unacceptable, then maybe improving the salary and working conditions might lead to social service as a profession being attractive to people who care and are smart?
 
nonpareil said:
So why did they become social workers? Why didn't more people who care and are responsible and smart become social workers? Maybe because of the salary and work conditions? So then you might ask yourself, is it okay that social services have salary and work conditions that attract mostly people who "did the bare minimum they had to do to collect their checks. And not an ounce more", if this problem is widespread in social services? Or maybe it's better to not have social services at all? If the two options are both unacceptable, then maybe improving the salary and working conditions might lead to social service as a profession being attractive to people who care and are smart?
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Thank you. That's my point, nonpareil just summed it up in better words than I am able to. Social services are arguably some of the most important government programs we have, yet they are the first ones to be cut, they are notoriously bad paying, and they are also notorious for heavy workloads and underappreciation. I am quite sure every study ever done on this subject would agree that this is going to attract the wrong kind of workers and it will also promote poor work ethic.
 
muciti said:
The pay of social workers is irrelevant. It does not matter. Neither do her working conditions. How exactly does blaming her wages prevent this from happening again. I dont care if this woman was being paid absolutely nothing and being forced to into that home against her will. She needs to deal with that through the labor department, her employer or whom ever else. You don't take it out on a 14 year old girl with cerebral palsy who is depending on you to take care of her.
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Not "blaming" but pointing out the salary and working condition. Better salary and working conditions might make the job attractive to better workers who are responsible and care about their job, which would lessen the likelihood of this happening.

If we look at the individual case, the people who leave the girl to starve to death are responsible, but from a policy perspective, explaining why this happened can lead to changes that prevent it from happening again.
 
nonpareil said:
Not "blaming" but pointing out the salary and working condition. Better salary and working conditions might make the job attractive to better workers who are responsible and care about their job, which would lessen the likelihood of this happening.

If we look at the individual case, the people who leave the girl to starve to death are responsible, but from a policy perspective, explaining why this happened can lead to changes that prevent it from happening again.
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So - do you have evidence that people who are paid more fulfill their job duties more readily when it comes to care of the ill and disabled?

I always thought that people who drawn to that type of work because they wanted to help people and improve their lives - I didn't think the money they'd earn was necessarily a factor.

How much did these women get paid, anyway?
 
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Thorgasm said:
This is what is wrong with our health care system. Far too often nurses are given the responsibilities that once were with doctors. A doctor would be less likely to allow this to happen. They have much more to lose.
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I think going to jail is a lot to lose for anybody.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
So - do you have evidence that people who are paid more fulfill their job duties more readily when it comes to care of the ill and disabled?
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I do know that smart capable people are attracted to high paying jobs - such as in the Financial sector. If you can attract those people to do this job, the result would be better.

I always thought that people who drawn to that type of work because they wanted to help people and improve their lives - I didn't think the money they'd earn was necessarily a factor.
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Well, these women don't seem to care about the girl or improving her life. Maybe attracting people to whom money is a factor and who then want to keep this job is a better option.


How much did these women get paid, anyway?
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I don't know. Are you disputing the claim the social work is an unattractive job to many people due to the salary and working conditions?
 
This was, quite frankly, a conspiracy to murder. There was nothing "involuntary" about it. Four people knowingly conspired to starve a disabled child to death. Period.

The only things more shocking that this crime are some of the posts in this thread.
 
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