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NBA Lockout: NBPA Rejects Deal, Announces It Will File For Decertification

The owners were very wealthy before any of these players were signed to anything, so if you think that ending the league means anything in the long run to any of them, you are mistaken. Who it does hurt are the fans that love the game. The children that look up to these over indulged children. The industries that make money off of the sport. These players, and the owners both make more off of the people that enjoy the sport, and you know the real sad thing? The average working stiff like myself at this point can't afford to take my son to a game. And that sucks! So end it all, get rid of them, and start over.


j-mac

I'm not in favor of ending the league, and I'm not a proponent of taking down owners or destroying their livelihoods. If you couldn't tell already, I am an ardent fan (of a rather ****ty franchise, I might add). And yes, I agree, while the millionaires and billionaires are fighting over money, it's the fans and the businesses who rely on the the league who are losing out. But at the end of the day, if you purely consider the labor negotiations that are going on, it's the owners that are being unreasonable, not the players. And like you mentioned above - most of them are successful businessmen who own many other assets that offset the costs of franchise ownership when they suffer losses. This is another reason NBA owners can stand to weather the storm of a cancelled season much better than the players.
 
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Most of these players will be among those in the NBA anyway. If there was a way to equalize the teams, I'd say the league would be far better at that.

I'm not sure what you mean by equalizing teams.
 
I'm not in favor of ending the league, and I'm not a proponent of taking down owners or destroying their livelihoods. If you couldn't tell already, I am an ardent fan (of a rather ****ty franchise, I might add). And yes, I agree, while the millionaires and billionaires are fighting over money, it's the fans and the businesses who rely on the the league who are losing out. But at the end of the day, if you purely consider the labor negotiations that are going on, it's the owners that are being unreasonable, not the players. And like you mentioned above - most of them are successful businessmen who own many other assets that offset the costs of franchise ownership when they suffer losses. This is another reason NBA owners can stand to weather the storm of a cancelled season much better than the players.

So basically your argument is who cares if they are losing money in this business venture because they have other business ventures going on? That doesn't make much business sense, sorry.
 
Anyway - bottom line - for those who are suggesting that NBA-caliber players are easily replaceable without having a noticeable dropoff in quality of play (and thus revenue), I simply disagree. The NBA is in essence a superstar-driven league. You're not going to find anyone among the next 400 best players in the world that come CLOSE to matching the talent level of guys like Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Dwight Howard, Chris Paul, Dwyane Wade, Derrick Rose, Carmelo Anthony, to name a few. You're simply not.
 
I'm not sure what you mean by equalizing teams.

Not really important since the real fun is watching all these spoiled cry babies complaining over how bad they have it.
 
I'm not in favor of ending the league, and I'm not a proponent of taking down owners or destroying their livelihoods. If you couldn't tell already, I am an ardent fan (of a rather ****ty franchise, I might add). And yes, I agree, while the millionaires and billionaires are fighting over money, it's the fans and the businesses who rely on the the league who are losing out. But at the end of the day, if you purely consider the labor negotiations that are going on, it's the owners that are being unreasonable, not the players. And like you mentioned above - most of them are successful businessmen who own many other assets that offset the costs of franchise ownership when they suffer losses. This is another reason NBA owners can stand to weather the storm of a cancelled season much better than the players.


At this point I don't really care who is being unreasonable, and who isn't...I think they both are, and ****ting all over the people that make their sport possible in the first place.

I tell ya, I remember growing up going to see the Lions, Tigers, and Pistons for less than $20 buck tickets. Now if I want to take my son to the game it is going to cost a minimum of $150, possibly $200 to see a game. That's BS! They just are not worth that much of MY hard earned labor.

Growing up I went to the same Junior High School as Magic Johnson, and saw how in the 8th grade the NBA scouts would take him out of class and groom him. These players, many of them hit the lottery, and because of unions, and the nature of collective bargaining who suffers? We do. I think I am going to stick to watching golf. At least golfers aren't bargaining for ever more ticket pricing.

j-mac
 
So basically your argument is who cares if they are losing money in this business venture because they have other business ventures going on? That doesn't make much business sense, sorry.

I'm saying, that's how sports franchise ownership USED to be. Meaning that historically, owners owned sports franchises simply because they loved the sport and were willing to operate them at a loss, if that's what happened.

Now, I'm not suggesting that I'd like for it to stay that way, or that it's somehow wrong for owners to want to profit, but historically it was more about sport and altruism than it was about money, and I think on the whole that was better for the sport and the fans.

Of course things are different these days, and there's a lot of money involved. As the league is currently losing money on the whole despite record revenues, I'm definitely in favor of the players giving up a portion of the income that they receive under the current CBA. But the offers that the owners have thrown out there have been consistently unreasonable and not even close to fair, making it seem more to me like they want a large enough portion of the income to be protected from their own silly front office mistakes.
 
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At this point I don't really care who is being unreasonable, and who isn't...I think they both are, and ****ting all over the people that make their sport possible in the first place.

I tell ya, I remember growing up going to see the Lions, Tigers, and Pistons for less than $20 buck tickets. Now if I want to take my son to the game it is going to cost a minimum of $150, possibly $200 to see a game. That's BS! They just are not worth that much of MY hard earned labor.

Growing up I went to the same Junior High School as Magic Johnson, and saw how in the 8th grade the NBA scouts would take him out of class and groom him. These players, many of them hit the lottery, and because of unions, and the nature of collective bargaining who suffers? We do. I think I am going to stick to watching golf. At least golfers aren't bargaining for ever more ticket pricing.

j-mac

I feel for you bro, but that's simply how the market works. Other folks ARE willing to pay those prices, and owners can still charge those prices and fill stadiums. That's simply the market at work. The high ticket prices don't exist simply because the athletes are overpaid.
 
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I feel for you bro, but that's simply how the market works. Other folks ARE willing to pay those prices, and owners can still charge those prices and fill stadiums. That's simply the market at work. The high ticket prices don't exist simply because the athletes are overpaid.

Well, good for the other fans. Baseball suffered with their fan base whom are still skeptical today for their antics, and other sports are getting on the last nerve of the working class fan today. All I can say is keep it up, and sooner or later, they'll learn.

j-mac
 
george shinn, the lousiest owner in the league, sells his team for $300 million in 2010
it's located in a small, underaffluent market
bought the team for $32.5 million in '88
does that sound like the outcome realized by an unfortunate, victimized owner who deserves the opportunity to pay his employees a discounted wage
 
Or conversely, the players without whose labor it is impossible to put any sort of product on the court? If you've followed the entire process of these CBA negotiations like I have, it has consistently been the owners who have repeatedly been making unreasonable demands, not the players. It's the league and the ownership that are essentially being assholes. I don't begrudge them that - they are essentially being assholes because they can. But let's not pretend that it's the owners who are the victims and its only the players who are the whiny children.

I can agree that both the owners and players are unreasonalbe. What should happen is the fans should the ones saying enough is enough and its time for a change. No longer will we pay the high ticket prices. No longer will we pay high prices for food/beer and parking.
It is so funny to read through this thread with people defending owners or players. I would bet that some who think it is ok for a player or owner to make millions per year also look at CEO's of non sports companies as evil rich people. IMO players and owners are way over paid for what they provide.
 
I can agree that both the owners and players are unreasonalbe. What should happen is the fans should the ones saying enough is enough and its time for a change. No longer will we pay the high ticket prices. No longer will we pay high prices for food/beer and parking.
It is so funny to read through this thread with people defending owners or players. I would bet that some who think it is ok for a player or owner to make millions per year also look at CEO's of non sports companies as evil rich people. IMO players and owners are way over paid for what they provide.

I think that's simply how the markets work, due to exposure. I don't think it's morally right for a combat soldier/Marine who puts his life on the line to be paid 1/100th of what an athlete - who plays a ball game for his job - makes. But that's simply how the market operates.

I do agree though, that while the owners and players are fighting over money, it's the fans, and ancillary and associated businesses that are getting screwed.
 
I think that's simply how the markets work, due to exposure. I don't think it's morally right for a combat soldier/Marine who puts his life on the line to be paid 1/100th of what an athlete - who plays a ball game for his job - makes. But that's simply how the market operates.

I do agree though, that while the owners and players are fighting over money, it's the fans, and ancillary and associated businesses that are getting screwed.

Agree,
It won't happen, but maybe if the players union disolves and the season is cancelled, fans will wake up and say enough is enough and bring about a reasonable change. I no longer go to games because of prices. I am now giving up basketball. There are too many other sports I can watch on tv.
 
Agree,
It won't happen, but maybe if the players union disolves and the season is cancelled, fans will wake up and say enough is enough and bring about a reasonable change. I no longer go to games because of prices. I am now giving up basketball. There are too many other sports I can watch on tv.

I'm a bit more pessimistic than you. I think it's a likelihood at this point that the whole season may be cancelled, but I don't really think the fans have any real say as to how the owners and players operate their business. Pains me to say this as an devout NBA and basketball fan in general. Maybe this will be a good year for me to follow college ball more closely.

If the league suffers any consequences, it will be in the form of reduced revenues the following year after the cancelled season, much as the league suffered reduced revenues in the aftermath of the lockout-shortened '99 season.
 
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...is that you in your avatar? because if so...:shock:

I asked her the same question. It's actually Amy Lee, the evanescence singer. Your Star is always teasing us with pics that we think are her, but not :(

Why does everyone think that's me? Just because her tongue is out doesn't mean..............................oh.







:lol:
 
In 1976, the American Basketball Association merged with the National Basketball Association and I went right out and bought season tickets for my Detroit Pistons. Night after night I sat in the stands at Cobo Hall with about 1,00 close friends and got to watch the new style of ball as played by people like Dr. J, Marvin Barnes, George Gervin, David Thompson (73 at Cobo baby!) and others. They livened up the NBA and we had a wonderful and nearly perfect blend of inner city street ball - the Black Game for lack of a better descriptor and the fundamental, team oriented White Game as played by The Boston Celtics and traditional NBA teams. It was amazing and both made each other better.

Then a few years later, Larry Bird and Magic Johnson came along - the two players who themselves blended the best of both styles in their own abilities with fancy passes and moves that took you out of your seat. A few years we got Michael Jordan the the trinity was complete.

Its hard for me to get excited about the pro game anymore. They have changed the interpretation of the rules so much, that its just not the same game - and that is for the worse. I went to a Piston game last year and it was like an advertising circus with a dizzying array of distracting activities that seemed to be promoting anything other than the actual game on the court.

I suspect these two sides better work something out very soon or the NBA will go out with a whimper as very few people will actually care or even notice.
 
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Less and less people are caring about the nba or any of them...people that make hundreds of millions whining incessantly...I dont read or listen to it on the news
 
In 1976, the American Basketball Association merged with the National Basketball Association and I went right out and bought season tickets for my Detroit Pistons. Night after night I sat in the stands at Cobo Hall with about 1,00 close friends and got to watch the new style of ball as played by people like Dr. J, Marvin Barnes, George Gervin, David Thompson (73 at Cobo baby!) and others. They livened up the NBA and we had a wonderful and nearly perfect blend of inner city street ball - the Black Game for lack of a better descriptor and the fundamental, team oriented White Game as played by The Boston Celtics and traditional NBA teams. It was amazing and both made each other better.

Then a few years later, Larry Bird and Magic Johnson came along - the two players who themselves blended the best of both styles in their own abilities with fancy passes and moves that took you out of your seat. A few years we got Michael Jordan the the trinity was complete.

Its hard for me to get excited about the pro game anymore. They have changed the interpretation of the rules so much, that its just not the same game - and that is for the worse. I went to a Piston game last year and it was like an advertising circus with a dizzying array of distracting activities that seemed to be promoting anything other than the actual game on the court.

I suspect these two sides better work something out very soon or the NBA will go out with a whimper as very few people will actually care or even notice.

I won't argue with that. The rules changes in recent years - no hand-checking, the restricted area/circle, the looser interpretation of the traveling rules - all have definitely contributed to a "de-authenticizing", for lack of a better word, of the game. But I suspect that the reason your game experience was horrible is that the Detroit Pistons simply suck as they are currently constructed.
 
I won't argue with that. The rules changes in recent years - no hand-checking, the restricted area/circle, the looser interpretation of the traveling rules - all have definitely contributed to a "de-authenticizing", for lack of a better word, of the game. But I suspect that the reason your game experience was horrible is that the Detroit Pistons simply suck as they are currently constructed.

I agree with you completely as to the point by point list you provided of how the game was changed. To me, all those things turned the game into a one on one game where the clear out was now the main way to score. If the game was refereed today as it was years ago, traveling would be called for carrying the ball on almost every other possession if not every possession. When you let an offensive player get away with that, there is no need to pass the ball. The villain in all this is the dunk. People went crazy for the dunk and so the league gave people what they wanted. Look at how Kareem and Walton both said that the inability to do a dunk in college due to its prohibition made them a far better ball player.

And really, the success of failure of the Pistons made no difference for me. I am not a homer by any means. I spent many years in my half court season ticket 12 rows up from the court cheering wildly for Larry Bird and the Celtics.
 
Come on, basketball doesn't even follow its own rules. Penalties are called depending on your popularity, traveling no longer exists, the refs were betting on the games and wasn't one in league with the mafia? It's not a sport, it's sport entertainment; and we already have wrestling.
 
The players are idiots. They don't realize that the owners hold every card in this.

The owners, at least 22 of them, are gleeful that no NBA season will be played. They will lose far less money by not playing at all. The is nothing like the NFL situation, where billions were at stake for both sides.

NBA television ratings are pathetic, even a Finals like this year when intrigue was pretty high. The league is simply not that popular, and it's viewed by many as a just a band of overhyped, pompous thugs, even by professional athlete standards.

Simply put, most of the owners are giddy, and they are determined to get this thing to a money-making structure before a ball is ever bounced in an NBA game ever again.
 
The players are idiots. They don't realize that the owners hold every card in this.

The owners, at least 22 of them, are gleeful that no NBA season will be played. They will lose far less money by not playing at all. The is nothing like the NFL situation, where billions were at stake for both sides.

NBA television ratings are pathetic, even a Finals like this year when intrigue was pretty high. The league is simply not that popular, and it's viewed by many as a just a band of overhyped, pompous thugs, even by professional athlete standards.

Simply put, most of the owners are giddy, and they are determined to get this thing to a money-making structure before a ball is ever bounced in an NBA game ever again.

This is true to a certain extent. As I've said before, the players stand to lose much more than the owners in the event of a lost season. However, a lost season is not without repercussions for the owners as well. On the one hand, it's true that most of them are willing to sacrifice a season in order to get a better deal. However, a lost season will also do severe damage to the league's image and it will thus lose a lot of its fans/viewership, much like when Jordan retired for the second time, and the '99 lockout that followed that.

I'm not sure if it's smart for the players union to adopt the "nuclear option" and playing hardball as a strategy, but I certainly don't blame them for doing so, because they've consistently been handed a sequence of ****ty deals by the Stern and the owners, and perhaps the only way to get the league to budge is by taking this battle to the courts.
 
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I agree with you completely as to the point by point list you provided of how the game was changed. To me, all those things turned the game into a one on one game where the clear out was now the main way to score. If the game was refereed today as it was years ago, traveling would be called for carrying the ball on almost every other possession if not every possession. When you let an offensive player get away with that, there is no need to pass the ball. The villain in all this is the dunk. People went crazy for the dunk and so the league gave people what they wanted. Look at how Kareem and Walton both said that the inability to do a dunk in college due to its prohibition made them a far better ball player.

And really, the success of failure of the Pistons made no difference for me. I am not a homer by any means. I spent many years in my half court season ticket 12 rows up from the court cheering wildly for Larry Bird and the Celtics.

Point taken. I was merely pointing out that perhaps the fact that you felt that your game experience consisted of mostly other distracting activities was due to the fact that the on-court product is simply garbage. that's what horrible teams have to do to attract fans to the arenas these days.
 
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