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ABC's "20/20 - Lessons from Billionaires: Tax ME to create jobs IN AMERICA!"

Catawba said:
This just out ~ The Top 0.1% Of The Nation Earn Half Of All Capital Gains

"Capital gains are the key ingredient of income disparity in the US-- and the force behind the winner takes all mantra of our economic system. If you want even out earning power in the U.S, you have to raise the 15% capital gains tax.

Income and wealth disparities become even more absurd if we look at the top 0.1% of the nation's earners-- rather than the more common 1%. The top 0.1%-- about 315,000 individuals out of 315 million-- are making about half of all capital gains on the sale of shares or property after 1 year; and these capital gains make up 60% of the income made by the Forbes 400.

It's crystal clear that the Bush tax reduction on capital gains and dividend income in 2003 was the cutting edge policy that has created the immense increase in net worth of corporate executives, Wall St. professionals and other entrepreneurs.

The reduction in the tax from 20% to 15% continued the step-by-step tradition of cutting this tax to create more wealth. It had first been reduced from 35% in 1978 at a time of stock market and economic stagnation to 28% . Again 1981, at the start of the Reagan era, it was reduced again to 20%-- raised back to 28% in 1987, on the eve of the October 19 232% crash in the market. In 1997 Clinton agreed to reduce it back to 20%, which move was an inducement for the explosion of hedge funds and private equity firms-- the most "rapidly rising cohort within the top 1 per cent."

Make no mistake; the battle that is to be fought over the coming attempt to reverse this reduction in capital gains will be bloody and intense. The facts are clear according to the Congressional Budget Office more than 80% of the increase in income inequality was the result of an increase in the share of household income from capital gains. In fact, you can go so far as to claim that "Capital Gains income is the most unevenly distributed-- and volatile-- source of household income," according to Laura D'Andrea Tyson, University of California business professor and former chairwoman of the Council of Economic Advisers under President Clinton."

The Top 0.1% Of The Nation Earn Half Of All Capital Gains - Yahoo! News
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All capital gains should be taxed as income at whatever is the prevailing rate for that particular taxpayer. To do otherwise is to give unfair preferential treatment in a discriminatory act intended to benefit one class of persons over the rest of Americans.

The rich will not like that. They will whine and moan, they will bitch and complain, they will wriggle like eels in a vat of oil to get out of their obligation, but this sort of unequal treatment must end.
 
Catawba said:
Where are the jobs that conservatives said they would create with capital gains tax cuts we continued last year???
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I strongly believe things could be much worse. We have a 90% employment rate right now. Pretty good for what we are characterizing as the worse economic crisis since the Great Depression. So, we don't want to do anything to tip the balance. We are in survival mode right now. Like I said, plenty of loopholes to close and other ways of increasing taxes. I am not one of those who absolutely opposes raising taxes. But the Congress has to show some fiscal responsibility.
 
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j-mac said:
They were there all the way up to the point that the ever lisping Barney Frank and friends started running blocker for Fannie, and Freddie to fend off regulations to buy votes with houses.


j-mac
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Please read this time and try again,

"Where are the jobs that conservatives said they would create with capital gains tax cuts we continued last year???"
 
TurtleDude said:
still evading the issue? mertex claimed the rich aren't paying their fair share of the income tax which is moronic. why do you class warfare advocates scream about the top 400 when you want to soak everyone making more than 200K a year? payroll taxes were designed to pay for defined benefits. a billionaire gets no more benefits than a guy making 130K a year since they pay the same. If a billionaire has no taxable (for FICA) income his benefits are LESS than say someone like me who maxes out on FICA
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Even the Republican's hero admitted that the rich don't pay their fair share. So who is the one that is moronic? You base your whole argument on the tax rate, but reality seems to evade you. Was Reagan lying?

However, if calling for an end to millionaires having lower tax rates than their secretaries is class warfare, Obama is only the latest class warrior to occupy the Oval Office. In a June 6, 1985 speech at Northside High School in Atlanta, Georgia, then President Ronald Reagan explained that tax loopholes allowing a millionaire to pay lower taxes that a bus driver were “crazy,” because they allowed the “truly wealthy to avoid paying their fair share”:
We’re going to close the unproductive tax loopholes that allow some of the truly wealthy to avoid paying their fair share. In theory, some of those loopholes were understandable, but in practice they sometimes made it possible for millionaires to pay nothing, while a bus driver was paying ten percent of his salary, and that’s crazy. [...] Do you think the millionaire ought to pay more in taxes than the bus driver or less?
VIDEO: Reagan Called For An End To 'Crazy' Tax Loopholes That Let Millionaires Pay Less Than Bus Drivers | ThinkProgress

​
 
j-mac said:
Ok, I am with you, I can not in good conscience say that I agree with politicians pledging anything other than to uphold the constitution. But you lose me with your attempt to tie Norquist to the Koch Brothers. That would be like me saying that Obama has a secret pledge with Soros...Do you think that true?

j-mac
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But, you do agree with politicians that pledge allegiance to a lobbyist, your posts attest to that. And that was a nice evade, by claiming that he lost you when he tried to tie Norquist to the Koch brothers. It is a known fact that the Koch Brothers control the Tea Party and the Tea Party seems to be in control of the GOP.
 
haymarket said:
All capital gains should be taxed as income at whatever is the prevailing rate for that particular taxpayer. To do otherwise is to give unfair preferential treatment in a discriminatory act intended to benefit one class of persons over the rest of Americans.

The rich will not like that. They will whine and moan, they will bitch and complain, they will wriggle like eels in a vat of oil to get out of their obligation, but this sort of unequal treatment must end.
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While I started out against this idea, on the grounds that taxing capital gains is akin to taxing an income multiple times...I have to throw my hat in in favor of a capital gains tax that's mirrors the income tax. Yes, it's wrong to tax an income, to begin with. Even more wrong to tax that same income multiple times. But we live in a world of taxes...there is no getting around this. You want to protest this, join the anarcho capitalist crowd, and change your R or D to the big L of libertarianism. Taxes are as sure as death...and....er....taxes. And so long as we tax tips, and tax, gifts over 700 bucks, and tax income...people who use capital gains as income should also pay taxes.


To not do so is essentially a government subsidy of stock trading...which creates the same atmosphere that led to the current economic crisis we are in.

Flame on. Bring it, bitches.
 
TurtleDude said:
nah its the freemasons, the trilateral commission and the skull and bones guys
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Here is the truth just for you

Truth can be sourced Grover owns 279 elected Republicans, The Koch Brothers control Grover, the conservative party is controlled by a few rich people not the people who elected them
 
haymarket said:
All capital gains should be taxed as income at whatever is the prevailing rate for that particular taxpayer. To do otherwise is to give unfair preferential treatment in a discriminatory act intended to benefit one class of persons over the rest of Americans.

The rich will not like that. They will whine and moan, they will bitch and complain, they will wriggle like eels in a vat of oil to get out of their obligation, but this sort of unequal treatment must end.
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Yes, penalize investment. That will sure lead to job creation.

j-mac
 
Catawba said:
Where are the jobs that conservatives said they would create with capital gains tax cuts we continued last year???
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When Bush faced increasing unemployment from a recession that he inherited from Clinton, and the effects of 9/11 exacerbated, those gains cuts spurred the lowest unemployment that this country has seen at 4.5%. Now I am sure you'll give me twisted figures to deny this fact. But I don't expect honesty.


j-mac
 
jambalaya said:
I strongly believe things could be much worse. We have a 90% employment rate right now. Pretty good for what we are characterizing as the worse economic crisis since the Great Depression. So, we don't want to do anything to tip the balance. We are in survival mode right now. Like I said, plenty of loopholes to close and other ways of increasing taxes. I am not one of those who absolutely opposes raising taxes. But the Congress has to show some fiscal responsibility.
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Id bet that damn near 40% of that 90% are underemployed and cant pay their bills.
 
j-mac said:
See how that works?


j-mac
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So the krotch bros are in charge of the teatards and the teatards control repubo's....ROFL...you guys are a treat seriously
 
lpast said:
So the krotch bros are in charge of the teatards and the teatards control repubo's....ROFL...you guys are a treat seriously
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Yeah, I love how when it is Republican Billionaire supporters that are politically active, then the narrative is all about how they control the party, but when we have the same thing working on the other side, as is the case with Billionaire George Soros, then it is either ignored, or dismissed.


j-mac
 
mertex said:
It is a known fact that the Koch Brothers control the Tea Party
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Fact??? Source please.

and the Tea Party seems to be in control of the GOP.
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The Tea party:
House - 62 members of 435 representatives (242 GOP) – 25% of GOP
Senate – 4 members of 100 Senators (47 GOP) – 8% of GOP

I don’t see how the Tea Party can have control of the GOP considering the minority percentages above. One could argue the Progressive Caucus controls the Democrats. Consider their margins:

The Progressive Caucus:
House - 82 members of 435 representatives (192 Dem) – 43% of Dem
Senate – 1 member of 100 Senators (51 Dem) – 2% of Dem

What is the source of their control?...Soros?
 
If people only look at Norquist via his infamous tax pledge, they are badly missing the entire picture. Read this

Grover Norquist Power Extends Beyond Americans For Tax Reform, A Brief look at Who is Really Running Your State Legislature and Training Private Companies To Get What they Want « Frederica Cade's Blog

Grover is one of the most influential people behind the scenes with ALEC. I am always shocked when most people do not even know what ALEC is. Here in Michigan, we have seen one far right measure after another come through the Michigan legislature in the past eleven months and they are almost always traced back to ALEC and their water carriers and members here.

ALEC is trying to bring a new American breed of fascism to the USA and have modeled their own structure after the Italians under Mussolini where corporate representatives are given representation and sit right along side the elected representatives of the people and have rights of participation.

find out much more here

http://alecexposed.org/wiki/ALEC_Exposed
 
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haymarket said:
If people only look at Norquist via his infamous tax pledge, they are badly missing the entire picture. Read this

Grover Norquist Power Extends Beyond Americans For Tax Reform, A Brief look at Who is Really Running Your State Legislature and Training Private Companies To Get What they Want « Frederica Cade's Blog

Grover is one of the most influential people behind the scenes with ALEC. I am always shocked when most people do not even know what ALEC is. Here in Michigan, we have seen one far right measure after another come through the Michigan legislature in the past eleven months and they are almost always traced back to ALEC and their water carriers and members here.

ALEC is trying to bring a new American breed of fascism to the USA and have modeled their own structure after the Italians under Mussolini where corporate representatives are given representation and sit right along side the elected representatives of the people and have rights of participation.

find out much more here

ALEC Exposed - Alec Exposed
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Yes, because Thomas Jefferson was an infamous fascist....

The mission of the American Legislative Exchange Council is…

… to advance the Jeffersonian principles of free markets, limited government, federalism, and individual liberty, through a nonpartisan public-private partnership of America’s state legislators, members of the private sector, the federal government, and general public.

… to promote these principles by developing policies that ensure the powers of government are derived from, and assigned to, first the People, then the States, and finally, the Federal Government.

… to enlist state legislators from all parties and members of the private sector who share ALEC’s mission.

… to conduct a policy making program that unites members of the public and private sectors in a dynamic partnership to support research, policy development, and dissemination activities.

… to prepare the next generation of political leadership through educational programs that promote the principles of Jeffersonian democracy, which are necessary for a free society.

About ALEC | ALEC – American Legislative Exchange Council
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They sound absolutely militant authoritarian......


j-mac
 
haymarket said:
If people only look at Norquist via his infamous tax pledge, they are badly missing the entire picture. Grover is one of the most influential people behind the scenes with ALEC. I am always shocked when most people do not even know what ALEC is. Here in Michigan, we have seen one far right measure after another come through the Michigan legislature in the past eleven months and they are almost always traced back to ALEC and their water carriers and members here.
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I had read about this months ago and then tried to figure out who is writing the 'far left measures'. I have yet to figure this out. Do you have any information concerning this?
 
Dickieboy said:
I had read about this months ago and then tried to figure out who is writing the 'far left measures'. I have yet to figure this out. Do you have any information concerning this?
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Tides, Van Jones, Unions, ACLU, Eco-nuts.....etc. Take your pick.


j-mac
 
j-mac said:
When Bush faced increasing unemployment from a recession that he inherited from Clinton, and the effects of 9/11 exacerbated, those gains cuts spurred the lowest unemployment that this country has seen at 4.5%. Now I am sure you'll give me twisted figures to deny this fact. But I don't expect honesty.


j-mac
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None of that does anything to answer the question I put to you. Twice now you have avoided the direct question:

"Where are the jobs that conservatives said they would create with capital gains tax cuts we continued last year???
 
Wow. I really thought I was going to come back to this thread with a ton of flack for my changed position on capital gains taxes.


I would like to add that these capital gains taxes would NOT apply to a 401K, or some other form of retirement...they would only apply to those capitals gains that are, essentially, income.


Leave everything else alone, though. Don't raise taxes on incomes, anymore than they already are. Making a capital gains tax competitive with income taxes is, at it's core, simply closing an existing (giant) tax loophole.
 
Also, having just said these things...I STILL don't trust the few billionaires out there screaming to have their taxes raised. Something is shady about those guys. Put the money where the mouth is, or shut the mouth up.
 
KevinKohler said:
Wow. I really thought I was going to come back to this thread with a ton of flack for my changed position on capital gains taxes.


I would like to add that these capital gains taxes would NOT apply to a 401K, or some other form of retirement...they would only apply to those capitals gains that are, essentially, income.


Leave everything else alone, though. Don't raise taxes on incomes, anymore than they already are. Making a capital gains tax competitive with income taxes is, at it's core, simply closing an existing (giant) tax loophole.
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Warren Buffett and Bill Gates agree with you about the need to increase the capital gains tax rate ~

 
And there you have it, ladies and gentlemen. From the mouthes of some of the richest people in our nation saying "tax me more, I'm good for it!" It's no longer just Warren Buffet making this claim. Thus, the anti-tax-the-rich crowd cease with trying to protect the rich because many of them are essentially saying "Stop protecting me. Do what's right for the country, as well as those at the bottom who can't afford to pay any more taxes".

If Conservatives in Congress claim they are listening to the public, they'd be smart to listen to that 1% that pays 53% of all federal income taxes. Mind you 40% of of Congress is classified as wealthy, but if we're to listen to both Michelle Bachmann and Sarah Palin who are now condemning crony capitalisimwhich, then I would think Congress would begin to take heed of what some of the wealthiest citizens in the country have to say on America's tax policy.
 
Objective Voice said:
And there you have it, ladies and gentlemen. From the mouthes of some of the richest people in our nation saying "tax me more, I'm good for it!" It's no longer just Warren Buffet making this claim. Thus, the anti-tax-the-rich crowd cease with trying to protect the rich because many of them are essentially saying "Stop protecting me. Do what's right for the country, as well as those at the bottom who can't afford to pay any more taxes".

If Conservatives in Congress claim they are listening to the public, they'd be smart to listen to that 1% that pays 53% of all federal income taxes. Mind you 40% of of Congress is classified as wealthy, but if we're to listen to both Michelle Bachmann and Sarah Palin who are now condemning crony capitalisimwhich, then I would think Congress would begin to take heed of what some of the wealthiest citizens in the country have to say on America's tax policy.
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These folks can voluntarily pay more taxes, by taking fewer deductions; no deductions, even.

If they're not already doing that, then the whole, "please, tax me more", mantra is just bull****.
 
Catawba said:
Warren Buffett and Bill Gates agree with you about the need to increase the capital gains tax rate ~

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The same Warren Buffet that's a billion dollars in the rears to the IRS? That Warren Buffet?

Of course he doesn't mind his taxes getting raised, he isn't paying his goddamn taxes, anyway! :lamo
 
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