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ABC's "20/20 - Lessons from Billionaires: Tax ME to create jobs IN AMERICA!"

apdst said:
It doesn't really matter where the money comes from, be it tax revenue, or non-tax revenue, they still don't pay taxes.
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again, you are lying.

govt. employees pay federal, state, local, FICA, and Medicare taxes.
 
Grant said:
The government pays their employee $100,000 a year, for example, and takes back $10,000 (as anther example).

Net loss to the non-governmental taxpayer is $90,000.
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Forgetting all about the actual labor or service that the government employee provided to the society. :roll:
 
Grant said:
That's the point. What is the daily dosage? What is the maximum, or minimum, someone should be taxed?

Where does it stop being healthy and starts to become unhealthy?
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Before our progressive tax system was cut, we had a half century of stable growth when tax rates for the rich were much more than anything being proposed.
 
Thunder said:
what about all the sales tax the govt. collects from the guy's purchases?
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It's still a net loss for the non governmental taxpayer.

There have been 230,000 people added to the federal government since BHO took office. Were these jobs really necessary?

No one really knows, but these people will be making good money with good pensions and somebody will have to pay. It doesn't seem like the country can really afford these people, no matter how much tax from their wages they might pay..
 
Catawba said:
Before our progressive tax system was cut, we had a half century of stable growth when tax rates for the rich were much more than anything being proposed.
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And there were probably fewer governmental programs. They throw everything out of whack..
 
Grant said:
That's the point. What is the daily dosage? What is the maximum, or minimum, someone should be taxed?

Where does it stop being healthy and starts to become unhealthy?
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Rich people are being taxed at a much lower rate than they were a few decades ago - letting the Bush tax cuts expire is not taxing the rich to death.

The super rich pay a lot less taxes than they did a couple of decades ago, and nearly half of U.S. households pay no income taxes at all.
​America's Richest Taxpayers See Federal Taxes Dramatically Drop





Over the past 30 years the rich in America have become a lot richer, while many millions of Americans have seen their income stagnate or decline. As​


Warren Buffett, the second richest man in America, famously said, “There’s class warfare, all right, but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning.”​



Wealth and income inequality today is by far the worst in the industrialized world and has fallen in line with many Third World countries. Nobel Prize winning economist Joseph E. Stiglitzexplains why this is bad news:

American Pie: Wealth and Income Inequality in America​



 
Grant said:
And there were probably fewer governmental programs. They throw everything out of whack..
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Yes, fewer tax cut programs for the rich................... and you are right, they did throw everything out of whack!
 
apdst said:
It's still a $90,000 loss to the non-governmental tax payer.
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he says forgetting all about the value of the labor or service performed by the government employee.

Bu why confuse you with reality or facts?
 
apdst said:
It's still a $90,000 loss to the non-governmental tax payer.
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what about the $90,000 in services that the govt. worker provided?

if a govt. engineer inspects bridges, tunnels, and buildings for material failures and other safety hazard, its still a total loss to the govt. and the tax payer?

a police officer working his ass off to protect the people & property, still is a total loss to the tax-payer?

a parks employee who plants thousands of trees a year, is a total loss to the people?
 
Thunder said:
what about the $90,000 in services that the govt. worker provided?

if a govt. engineer inspects bridges, tunnels, and buildings for material failures and other safety hazard, its still a total loss to the govt. and the tax payer?

a police officer working his ass off to protect the people & property, still is a total loss to the tax-payer?

a parks employee who plants thousands of trees a year, is a total loss to the people?
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Why are you confusing those dispensing vitriolic hyperbole with actual facts?
 
mertex said:
Rich people are being taxed at a much lower rate than they were a few decades ago - letting the Bush tax cuts expire is not taxing the rich to death.

The super rich pay a lot less taxes than they did a couple of decades ago, and nearly half of U.S. households pay no income taxes at all.
​America's Richest Taxpayers See Federal Taxes Dramatically Drop


Over the past 30 years the rich in America have become a lot richer, while many millions of Americans have seen their income stagnate or decline. As​
Warren Buffett, the second richest man in America, famously said, “There’s class warfare, all right, but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning.”​

Wealth and income inequality today is by far the worst in the industrialized world and has fallen in line with many Third World countries. Nobel Prize winning economist Joseph E. Stiglitzexplains why this is bad news:

American Pie: Wealth and Income Inequality in America​
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The sad truth is that it often difficult to tell other people how much tax they should pay because they can just leave. And why not? Other countries with lower taxes have great climates, high speed internet, the latest movies, night clubs, are scenic, relatively safe, etc.

So it doesn't really matter what Americans were paying 20, 50 or 100 years ago, it's what people must pay now, and whether or not they are getting their money's worth. There are just more opportunities now in more countries and fewer reasons to invest in the United States. This is good because now countries must be more competitive to attract money and people, which allows greater freedoms then we have known in the not so distant past. Bur we must also adjust to this changing reality or Detroit will soon arrive in your neighborhood.
 
Grant said:
The sad truth is that it often difficult to tell other people how much tax they should pay because they can just leave. And why not? Other countries with lower taxes have great climates, high speed internet, the latest movies, night clubs, are scenic, relatively safe, etc.

.
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As the saying goes......... "don't let the door hit ya where the Good Lord split ya."

And how many really ever do?
 
haymarket said:
he says forgetting all about the value of the labor or service performed by the government employee.

Bu why confuse you with reality or facts?
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But you often have to pay for this service whether you want it or not. Such is not the case in the real world.
 
haymarket said:
As the saying goes......... "don't let the door hit ya where the Good Lord split ya."

And how many really ever do?
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Earlier on this thread there were a number of links showing how many Americans are leaving the country. Historically it was other countries which suffered an exodus of their best and brightest leaving for America but now this situation has been reversed somewhat. A cavalier attitude might serve well for a while but ultimately the pinch will be felt. Especially when the moneyed people are leaving and being replaced by indigents arriving over the southern border.

I spend a lot of time in Central America and see it all the time.
 
Objective Voice said:
People did go to jail over Enron (unless what you're really referring to is "people from within the government who approved the funding for such ventures"). To that, I can agree if it could be proven that there was wrong doing on the part of government officials.
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They should go to prison for simply not making sure the interests of the public was placed first.
 
Thunder said:
what about the $90,000 in services that the govt. worker provided?

if a govt. engineer inspects bridges, tunnels, and buildings for material failures and other safety hazard, its still a total loss to the govt. and the tax payer?

a police officer working his ass off to protect the people & property, still is a total loss to the tax-payer?

a parks employee who plants thousands of trees a year, is a total loss to the people?
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Show us your evidence that every government employee provides more in services than they are paid. Many thanks, in advance. ;)

a police officer working his ass off to protect the people & property, still is a total loss to the tax-payer?
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Like the Oakland cops that were bustin' heads? You wanna go there? :rofl
 
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apdst said:
Show us your evidence that every government employee provides more in services than they are paid. Many thanks, in advance. ;)...
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how do you quantify the value of a policeman, fireman, or EMT saving a life or a home?

how do you quantify the value of an engineer making sure a bridge or tunnel is safe?

how do you quantify the value of a socialworker who helps make sure the elderly & handicapped in our society are well cared for?

see, contrary to what selfish Conservatives believe, not EVERYTHING is about money.
 
Thunder said:
how do you quantify the value of a policeman, fireman, or EMT saving a life or a home?

how do you quantify the value of an engineer making sure a bridge or tunnel is safe?

how do you quantify the value of a socialworker who helps make sure the elderly & handicapped in our society are well cared for?

see, contrary to what selfish Conservatives believe, not EVERYTHING is about money.
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That's the usual alternatives offered but 20 million federal and State employees can't all be protecting lives. A lot of it is just a wasted bloated bureaucracy living off the public teat.
 
Catawba said:
Tax increases, throughout US history, have increased revenues.
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But:
Last week, the CBO reported that if Congress simply left taxes as they are today, tax revenues would return to normal levels -18 percent of the gross domestic product - in just six years … and keep growing after that. Eventually we would need to cut taxes to keep them from reaching an all-time high. [Note: In this scenario, tax rates stay the same for all taxpayers, middle-income families continue to escape the clutches of the alternative minimum tax, and other tax-reducing provisions now set to expire remain in effect.]


DUBAY: Tax hikes not needed to balance budget - Washington Times
 
Grant said:
That's the usual alternatives offered but 20 million federal and State employees can't all be protecting lives. A lot of it is just a wasted bloated bureaucracy living off the public teat.
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yes, the govt. shouldn't employ one person more than necessary.
 
I worked at the government trough for 30 years. The term "public servant" in quite accurate. We were constantly underfunded and understaffed at the (health) agency where I worked. The paper work was never caught up. Services to the poor, women/children and the mentally ill were always being cut. This made for waiting lists for services. Physically ill, mentally ill and sometimes even dangerous people waited for services. Our staff were will trained to deal any emergency which might appear at our front counter. We had to be pleasant and precise to people who were at their best civil and at their worst rude, abusive and frequently scarey. We could not wear religious jewery, have any such material in sight at our desks, any political bumper stickers on our cars; nor could we express our political views in public. If staff as group had decided where the biggest cuts were made, it likely would have been in management. But, I've seldom seen that happen enough in any agency.

20 million state/federal employees? Are you including military personnel? They are federal employees too. All city and county employees need to be included in any count as well.
 
apdst said:
Show us your evidence that every government employee provides more in services than they are paid. Many thanks, in advance. ;)



l
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Lets put the shoe on the other foot.

APDST & Grant - prove to us that you earn every dollar you put in your pocket. Show us definitive proof that you deliver 100% of what you make. Show us beyond any shadow of doubt that you are worth what is paid to you. Show us you are not a leech. Show us you are not a bum. Show us you are not merely a clever parasite who is scamming your employers and laughing all the way to the bank.

Thats pretty insulting is it not?

Nobody has the right to infer that you - or anyone - is doing such things. But that is exactly what you just did in this ridiculous challenge.

In the end, this will mean nothing. Folks who have these anti-worker attitudes on the far right simply believe what they believe because they want to believe it. Its hopeless to try and convince them otherwise.
 
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