• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Occupy Philadelphia costs city $400,000 in police surveillance

I am shocked to discover that a government protecting a peoples rights can actually cost money!!!!! :roll:

Who ever would have thunk it????? ;)
 
This was dropped on the Occupy protestors in Chicago.

298824_265787436795769_100000935438400_689709_225499241_n.jpg
 
They don't seem to realize most Americans don't work for government, most Americans clock much more than 40 hours a week, and most Americans aren't unionized. That's what reading too much Atlas Shrugged and being out of touch will create.
 
But they have a common rallying call which is firmly set against the entanglement of State and Corporate entities.

I fear that in some people's zeal to politicize this into a nice category for dismissal, they don't actually look at what's being called for. Rather they want to belittle the protest and try to portray it as impotent and lacking common cause. However, anyone who is actually going to look at the data clearly comes across the common theme of OWS; that being the gross entanglement of State and Corporation has led to a stiffing of economic mobility and unfair practices in which corporations most entangled with the State are given preferential treatment.

View attachment 67117683

OWS is impotent and lacking in a common cause or direction or any understanding of what their slogans mean. While it may well be true that some of them share your conspiracy theories about collusion between the government and large companies being responsible for the financial crisis and recession, your contention that many of them share you belief or concern that this has diminished competition or that they long for the myth of free market capitalism is no more than wishful thinking of your part.

No matter how many times you invoke the mantra of corporate capitalism, it is still no more than a meaningless slogan. If you put down your propaganda pamphlets for a moment and think about what you are saying, you'll see it is really the size of the business enterprises you are complaining about, not whether they are publicly held corporations or privately owned and that to preserve competition you would have to prevent the formation of monopolies which would require government regulation. What data is available, and it is scant and scattered, suggests that the most widely held preferences among OWS are socialism or some variant of a social welfare state and not any form of capitalism.
 
OWS is impotent and lacking in a common cause or direction or any understanding of what their slogans mean. While it may well be true that some of them share your conspiracy theories about collusion between the government and large companies being responsible for the financial crisis and recession, your contention that many of them share you belief or concern that this has diminished competition or that they long for the myth of free market capitalism is no more than wishful thinking of your part.

No matter how many times you invoke the mantra of corporate capitalism, it is still no more than a meaningless slogan. If you put down your propaganda pamphlets for a moment and think about what you are saying, you'll see it is really the size of the business enterprises you are complaining about, not whether they are publicly held corporations or privately owned and that to preserve competition you would have to prevent the formation of monopolies which would require government regulation. What data is available, and it is scant and scattered, suggests that the most widely held preferences among OWS are socialism or some variant of a social welfare state and not any form of capitalism.

This seems nothing more than propaganda aimed at decreasing thought about the problem and to easily categorize something as dismissible.
 
This seems nothing more than propaganda aimed at decreasing thought about the problem and to easily categorize something as dismissible.

Since that's what you do with all criticisms of OWS or any of your own ideas, it makes sense that it is all you'd be able to understand from some one else's posts.
 
Since that's what you do with all criticisms of OWS or any of your own ideas, it makes sense that it is all you'd be able to understand from some one else's posts.

Are you trying to be ironic?
 

Adbusters is a local Vancouver group which has been behind the OWS movement all along.

That a small Canadian website can get the American left all worked up is really quite remarkable. They are not having the same effect here in Canada, though they are certainly trying.
 
They don't seem to realize most Americans don't work for government, most Americans clock much more than 40 hours a week, and most Americans aren't unionized. That's what reading too much Atlas Shrugged and being out of touch will create.

Sssssssooooo, you think this fraud of a response in letter photo'd and pasted on some message board is written by a conservative? Why is that?

j-mac
 
This seems nothing more than propaganda aimed at decreasing thought about the problem and to easily categorize something as dismissible.

If you can elaborate on any of the OWS slogans and how they might be put into action, with the 99% approval rate of the people of course, then perhaps you can do it here.
 
In a mostly positive newspaper article about Occupy Philadelphia, entitled "Occupy Philadelphia protesting in peace"

As relatively well-behaved as the protesters have been, as the movement moves into its fourth week, it has been criticized for its cost to the city, lack of philosophical focus, and for creating an eyesore.
Police patrol the plaza day and night. Most are officers from Center City precincts assigned during their regular hours, but so far, overtime has cost the city about $500,000.

Amid the 200 tents pitched around City Hall are signs advocating a flurry of causes: "Corporate Owned Media = Corporate Lies," "Capitalism is failing, socialism is the alternative," "Stop Foreclosures," "No Fracking," and "Ron Paul for President."

The activists are planning a "march to end the silence" on Saturday to coincide with a visit to the city by former President Bill Clinton. The march will start at 12:30 at City Hall and head to Temple University. Participants will cover their mouths with bandannas printed with the names of corporations that organizers say exert too much influence on politicians.

To ask what the movement's main issues are is "a loaded question," says Chris Goldstein, a volunteer for Occupy's public-relations working group. A general assembly meets daily to reach consensus on all aspects of the demonstration. "The direction is being defined. No one wants to presuppose what that will be, but it's mainly the issue of bringing awareness about corporate greed and economic inequality."
Occupy Philadelphia protesting in peace | Philadelphia Inquirer | 10/28/2011

So Philadelphia residents have to forgo at least $1,250,000 - estimates are increasing - in city services while they try to figure out why they're there? What's wrong with figuring it out on their own dime and them coming to demonstrate?
 
I am shocked to discover that a government protecting a peoples rights can actually cost money!!!!! :roll:

Who ever would have thunk it????? ;)

There is no right to squat on city property. More accurately, the city governments are subsidizing illegal actions from people who seem to have no regard for the welfare of the city's residents.
 
There is no right to squat on city property. More accurately, the city governments are subsidizing illegal actions from people who seem to have no regard for the welfare of the city's residents.

Have you ever seen what city governments truly subsidize? My city is rife with no-bid, 100%+ cost-overrun projects that the city council routinely approves without any hearing, discussion, or comment. (Google baltimore monumental paving) The people protesting the REAL government subsidies of corporate welfare and a gravy train of income for their CEOs have the story straight. It shouldn't be a shock that the defense of liberty and justice has a cost, as they are not the natural order of things.
 
Have you ever seen what city governments truly subsidize? My city is rife with no-bid, 100%+ cost-overrun projects that the city council routinely approves without any hearing, discussion, or comment. (Google baltimore monumental paving) The people protesting the REAL government subsidies of corporate welfare and a gravy train of income for their CEOs have the story straight. It shouldn't be a shock that the defense of liberty and justice has a cost, as they are not the natural order of things.

Then why aren't they protesting government corruption in Baltimore rather than in Philly?

The fact that these people have no coherent message allows everyone with any sort of beef to get on board, and make expensive asses of themselves.
 
This is a case where the phrase "Freedom isn't free" applies. Freedom costs... sometimes it costs money.

And these people have a lot of money to spend, do they?

Or are they expecting the 1% to pick up the tab?
 
So you think if the city is forced to cut money for education, public health centers, close libraries and fire houses that is a victory?

Sorry, since when do Republicans pretending to be Independents care about education or public health centers? :S
 
Have you ever seen what city governments truly subsidize? My city is rife with no-bid, 100%+ cost-overrun projects that the city council routinely approves without any hearing, discussion, or comment. (Google baltimore monumental paving) The people protesting the REAL government subsidies of corporate welfare and a gravy train of income for their CEOs have the story straight. It shouldn't be a shock that the defense of liberty and justice has a cost, as they are not the natural order of things.

These protests are not about liberty or justice; they are about money. The only consistent themes are corporate greed, the pursuit of profits by large companies, and inequality of wealth. Whether you agree with them or think these are just mindless slogans, the fact is these people have expressed no interest in liberty or justice or anyone else's welfare; they are protesting the fact that some other people have more money than they do.
 
This is a case where the phrase "Freedom isn't free" applies. Freedom costs... sometimes it costs money.

They freedom they are claiming is to throw public tantrums about things they don't understand.
 
Then why aren't they protesting government corruption in Baltimore rather than in Philly?

The fact that these people have no coherent message allows everyone with any sort of beef to get on board, and make expensive asses of themselves.

We're occupied here too :)
 
Occupy Philadelphia costs city $400,000 in police surveillance - Philly.com

Links to the costs to other cities

Google

At a cost of $400,000 a week, the cost to the city's residents could quickly run into millions of dollars at a time when the city has already been forced to cut back on some services because of declining revenues. Should these protesters and those in other cities be required to cover the costs to the city, so that its residents, often those most vulnerable and dependent on city services, do not have to face further cutbacks because of Occupy Philadelphia?

they don't care about those residents. they are pissed off that they didn't get their above-average entry job even though they spent four alcohol besotted years pretending to study feminism in chaucer. this isn't a rebellion of the poor - it's a rebellion of suburban kids who were told they would achieve success just by showing up, and have suddenly found out that that isn't true.



the city of philly should pay for this by raising tuition.
 
That's the city's problem. Maybe if they don't want to dish out so much money, they should campaign for economic change instead of towing the status quo.

What part of "right to freedom of assembly" do you not understand? There is no price tag attached to that. People can gather peacefully wherever they want. Screw the permit system. "Protest zones" are becoming common in most major North American cities. It's the government's way of neutering them of effectiveness.

Activism is activism, not "activism in a certain part of the city where no one will see it", and certainly not "this activism is costing the city money, so we should charge them a fee."

Total BS.

American and European cities are going broke as a result of Unions, "activism', and so on. This simple lack of fiscal understanding is what is undermining the United States today and will determine its ruin over the long term.

Unfortunately there is too much wide spread ignorance about how economies work, fiscal responsibilities, and so on. What's happening in Europe will soon take over the United States and once that happens no one is quite sure what waits on the other side. But it will not be the America many grew up in, that's certain.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...7001780712273626.html?mod=djemEditorialPage_h
 
There is no right to squat on city property. More accurately, the city governments are subsidizing illegal actions from people who seem to have no regard for the welfare of the city's residents.

American history is rich in such actions. During the Depression we had both the Hoovervilles all over the land and the Bonus Army that came to Washington and lived there.
 
These protests are not about liberty or justice; they are about money. The only consistent themes are corporate greed, the pursuit of profits by large companies, and inequality of wealth. Whether you agree with them or think these are just mindless slogans, the fact is these people have expressed no interest in liberty or justice or anyone else's welfare; they are protesting the fact that some other people have more money than they do.

that sort of viewpoint is hollow and self serving. Please read this article. It destroys completely and utterly the silly charge that these are people who simply envy what others have.

Wall Street Isn't Winning It's Cheating | Matt Taibbi | Rolling Stone
 
We're occupied here too :)

And why not? May as well occupy towns and cities all over the United States in order to get the desired outcome, whatever that might be.

It's not a pretty sight watching the country which was once the greatest hope for mankind self-destruct.
 
Back
Top Bottom