Obama to Announce Student Loan Relief Plan

Jryan said:

Did a quick refresh and saw this. I'm studying for a test that I have tomorrow, but I felt this needed to be answered.



Hmmmm... States paying less of the cost for educations.


Capitalism has its downfalls.


I guess government grants has its downfalls. The more people who have grants, the more the college can raise tuition. If a business knows its customer has access to money, would they not raise prices? Again, capitalism at its worst.


Looks like another system that is screwed and rigged for the rich.

Source: Why Is College So Expensive? : NPR

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An oped from NPR? Really?

Helix said:

sounds like a winning campaign slogan for the republicans. you guys should totally run with that. it will draw in tons* of independents.


*1% or so

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I would rather lose running on sound fiscal principles than win by pandering to irresponsible beggars. That's just me.

apdst said:

An oped from NPR? Really?

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What do you have against NPR?

NPR has been accused of displaying both liberal bias, as alleged in work such as a UCLA and University of Missouri study of Morning Edition, and conservative bias, including criticism of alleged reliance on conservative think-tanks.[31] NPR has also been accused of bias related to specific topics, including support of the 2003 Invasion of Iraq, and coverage of Israel. The NPR ombudsman has described how NPR's coverage of the Israel-Palestinian conflict has been simultaneously criticized as biased by both sides.[32] University of Texas journalism professor and author, Robert Jensen, has criticized NPR for its pro-war stance during coverage of Iraq war protests.[33]

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Oh no, fear the biased on both sides, wtf?, radio show...

Debate the facts that were presented or admit I'm right.

apdst said:

Perhaps we should look at the salaries of all those professors.

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Perhaps you should. If you do, please report back.

Jryan said:

Did a quick refresh and saw this. I'm studying for a test that I have tomorrow, but I felt this needed to be answered.

Hmmmm... States paying less of the cost for educations.

Capitalism has its downfalls.

I guess government grants has its downfalls. The more people who have grants, the more the college can raise tuition. If a business knows its customer has access to money, would they not raise prices? Again, capitalism at its worst.

Looks like another system that is screwed and rigged for the rich.

Source: Why Is College So Expensive? : NPR

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Funny you missed this line: "Baum says one reason tuition never seems to drop is that universities are not getting more efficient the way other industries are. And some conservative governors are pushing administrators to cut waste and make professors more productive."

Or this one: "Even as sticker prices climb, student aid has gone up dramatically. For students in private schools, says George Washington University's Baum, the aid increases just about cancel out tuition increases of the past five years."


Note the desire for CONSERVATIVE governers to cut waste and increase productivity. Why did you leave this out????

GET BACK TO STUDYING!

Kandahar said:

Not everyone has a sugar mama to mooch off of for nine months.

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Mooching living pay check to paycheck and doing little to nothing everyday, real... fun.

Kandahar said:

I like the qualifier that you have compassion right before you prove that that isn't the case. In any event, it's not really about compassion (although that aspect should not be overlooked). It's about the fact that our economy cannot truly start growing again until we do something about debt overhang. Remember that this isn't an ordinary recession, it's a fundamentally different animal because it involved a financial crisis caused by too much debt. And until we resolve that fundamental problem by helping people deleverage, economic growth will continue to be stagnant. Sure, we might get a brief spurt of economic growth followed by another dip into recession here and there, but on the whole the economy will not grow very much until people deleverage some of their debt.

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You cannot wish debt away.

apdst said:

Anyone that can't figure out a way to off his student loans isn't going to make in the real world, anyway.

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Not really. If you have a low-paying job and a family, it's difficult to pay them off.

conservativeguy said:

I worked my way through college and came out with a BSBA and a MBA and zero debt. I had to work two jobs during the summers and a part time job during the school year. The argument everyone needs to borrow a ton of money to go to schools they can't afford is complete BS. People should attend the schools they or their families can afford. I guess I am very old school since I have always lived within my means.

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Not sure how old you are, and I don't mean to be rude, but don't you realize things have changed? When I enrolled in my school, it was 30,000 a year, of which, I had a 15K scholarship. 2nd year, it was 35K a year. 3rd, it was around 42K a year. By senior year, it was 47K a year. This is NOT including ANYTHING else. I, too, worked a full time job in the summer, fumigating houses, and a part time job during the school year, at the cafeteria. But that didn't come CLOSE to me making 30K a year. Seriously, if I could go out, and get a 40K a year job, part of full time, with NO degree....why would I even bother with the degree?

On one hand, republicans harp about the value of improving yourself, making yourself more valuable to a prospective employer, and on the other hand, laughing and say, "work harder", when that means to doing so requires debt.

MrVicchio said:

Yeah yeah yeah, it's not your fault, you['re a victim, woes you. I was unemployed for nine months last year into this. I didn't take a single handout, my wife and I lived off her paycheck and made huge cuts in what we were doing till I landed a job, I just got a raise, life is turning around.

We have common sense, we also realize that life, isn't fair. I have compassion for your situation, it sucks, but crying about it doesn't solve anything, demanding that you get a to steal from others so your life is a little better makes you better then the "criminals" you are complaining about how again?

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I wish people around here would stop assuming. Where have I espoused the idea of stealing? Nowhere. I don't like this obama plan, nor one that would allow a student to pay 10% of income for 20-25 years, and then call it paid back, regardless of how much or how little was actually paid back. If you'd take the time to follow along, maybe you'd realize that all I want, is the ability to negotiate with the company that holds my loan. Which, of course, is hard, because the company that SOLD my loan, on who's terms I MADE such a deal, no longer exists, and so now I deal with a company I did NOT CHOOSE to deal with, but with one forced upon me. Do you see the difference here? I don't want legal force brought upon ANYONE...I just want the holder of my loan to operate in an intelligent manner. And I feel I have the right to ask such, since I have already had to bail out other loan companies when THEY operated poorly. Instead of trying to squeeze water out of a rock, and then throwing the book at people when doing such fails, WORK with the people who owe you money. There be some sort of statute about reasonable efforts to pay. But no, like the housing market, we'd rather toss people out, sit on the house while it rots, and then, give it up for a loss, after taking HUGE losses on the entire venture. There's the loss from lost mortgage payments (the foreclosed owners), loss in property taxes, loss in devaluation of the house (homes with no one living in them and taking care of them go to hell FAST), and then, finally, the loss of chalking it up and giving the house away, lol. That was stupid. All I'm asking is, for them to not be so stupid. It was them being stupid, dishonest, and fraudulent that made all of us have to fork over 800,000,000,000 in the first place. Savvy?

apdst said:

Perhaps we should look at the salaries of all those professors.

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Most are part time, and most don't make enough to cover the cost of getting a masters, or doctorate. The ones you want to look at are administrators, and in the case of non state schools, the board memebers, shareholders, etc. As in any other business.

Kandahar said:

Not everyone has a sugar mama to mooch off of for nine months.



I like the qualifier that you have compassion right before you prove that that isn't the case. In any event, it's not really about compassion (although that aspect should not be overlooked). It's about the fact that our economy cannot truly start growing again until we do something about debt overhang. Remember that this isn't an ordinary recession, it's a fundamentally different animal because it involved a financial crisis caused by too much debt. And until we resolve that fundamental problem by helping people deleverage, economic growth will continue to be stagnant. Sure, we might get a brief spurt of economic growth followed by another dip into recession here and there, but on the whole the economy will not grow very much until people deleverage some of their debt.

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I did link the rules for the loans. Don't pretend to be an expert, which is why I linked the loans. Which one of us is assuming?

KevinKohler said:

Most are part time, and most don't make enough to cover the cost of getting a masters, or doctorate. The ones you want to look at are administrators, and in the case of non state schools, the board memebers, shareholders, etc. As in any other business.

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Well, I think it is the professors. Those jobs would seem to be a competitive position. Obviously Harvard has a high tuition because it can pay for the best teachers. College professors are a capitalistic hiring system.

Let me ask this....if you take a loan out, from one lender, then that lender goes under, or sells your loan to someone else, and then to someone else, so on and so forth, without any consent from you...how am I supposed to be responsible for that? Maybe I knew the folks I took my loan OUT from, and knew that together, we would always manage to work out a way to make payments. And then, voila, it goes to someone I DON'T know, someone who ISN'T willing to negotiate, etc etc.


That's the problem with student loans.

theplaydrive said:

Not really. If you have a low-paying job and a family, it's difficult to pay them off.

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Poor choices are no excuse to disregard a contract. No one forced these people to take these loans.

j-mac

Dickieboy said:

But the Stafford Loan program is part of the 'William D. Ford Federal Direct Loan (Direct Loan) Program' in which 'students borrow directly from the U.S. Department of Education (the Department) at participating schools'. From the Federal Student Aid program:

Repayment Plans—The Direct Loan Program offers several repayment plans that are designed to meet the different needs of individual borrowers. Generally, you’ll have 10 to 25 years to repay your loan, depending on the repayment plan that you choose.

No mention of 'standard' or 'extended'.

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Which is what I said. 10-25 years. And then said if you've been paying for 25 years, what would you have left. Later he said Obama was considering 20 years. Which still means a lot would likely already been paid.

Jryan said:

Well, I think it is the professors. Those jobs would seem to be a competitive position. Obviously Harvard has a high tuition because it can pay for the best teachers. College professors are a capitalistic hiring system.

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Those would be the 1% folks, though. Largely, college profs are part time, they do it as side work. Sure, at ivy league schools, that charge over 200K for 4 years, and 400K for a masters or more, can pay for a fulltime staff of profs, and handsomely, as well. The rest...can't, and don't.

KevinKohler said:

Let me ask this....if you take a loan out, from one lender, then that lender goes under, or sells your loan to someone else, and then to someone else, so on and so forth, without any consent from you...how am I supposed to be responsible for that? Maybe I knew the folks I took my loan OUT from, and knew that together, we would always manage to work out a way to make payments. And then, voila, it goes to someone I DON'T know, someone who ISN'T willing to negotiate, etc etc.


That's the problem with student loans.

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The bottom line is that when you took the original contract out to receive the loan, the terms were clearly laid out in that contract. This doesn't change when the loan is sold. As long as you live up to what you said you would by signing it, then there is no problem.

j-mac

KevinKohler said:

Let me ask this....if you take a loan out, from one lender, then that lender goes under, or sells your loan to someone else, and then to someone else, so on and so forth, without any consent from you...how am I supposed to be responsible for that? Maybe I knew the folks I took my loan OUT from, and knew that together, we would always manage to work out a way to make payments. And then, voila, it goes to someone I DON'T know, someone who ISN'T willing to negotiate, etc etc.


That's the problem with student loans.

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That seems like a real issue. I mean when you go to take out a loan, you are looking at the bank's policies.

Dickieboy said:

I'm sorry...disregard the previous post. The link you furnished was not relevent to this discusion. Per the disclaimer at the bottom of the page 'Stafford Loan dot com is not a United States Government website or associated in any way with the William D. Ford Federal Direct Loan Program, the U.S. Department of Education or Federal Student Aid.' My oversight.

Hence it is not affected by BHO's plan.

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That's where most the loans are, so specify the terms of the laons you're speaking of, what you think Obama is speaking of, and how many are likley to be more than 25 years. Maybe link something supporting that?

j-mac said:

Poor choices are no excuse to disregard a contract. No one forced these people to take these loans.

j-mac

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Going to college isn't a poor choice. This comment doesn't event make any sense. How do you know people have made poor choices?

Here's a question. Why is college so expensive? I'll attempt first, since I asked...

It's a controlled market. Who here would like to open their own school? Anyone? Well, if you do, too bad, because unless you're a kabizzilionair, you can't afford to pay for everything needed to open a state accredited school. In short, then, while there IS competition in the market, NEW competition is few and far between, ans VERY slow to rise. Regulation.

So, fine, just don't go to college, right? But those jobs you want...you can't get them without the proper acredidation. You can't be a CPA without going to college, legally not allowed. Can't be a mechanic without being ACE certified, and a few others. Can't be a chef, can't be ANYTHING, without the proper, state approved certification, from a proper, state approved certification administer; college. Regulation.


In short, regulation creates the demand for college, regulation limits the supply of college.

And what is value? Supply and demand.

Couple that with government backed places like Sally Mae, and other loan institutions, and colleges can charge most anything they want, because they know most can get the loan, no matter how absurd, and what do they care about a student's ability to pay? That's the loan companies problem, not theirs, right?

j-mac said:

Poor choices are no excuse to disregard a contract. No one forced these people to take these loans.

j-mac

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When the person who I made a contract WITH is no longer around, I consider my contract null and void.

Boo Radley said:

Which is what I said. 10-25 years. And then said if you've been paying for 25 years, what would you have left. Later he said Obama was considering 20 years. Which still means a lot would likely already been paid.

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Oh so that is just great! Didn't he also mention something about capping the repayment at 10% of anual income? So let's see here, you graduate with a loan bill that is gaining interest at 6% annually, on $150K of loans for your Brazilian Bongo degree, and you get a job out of collage that makes 35K a year. So you repay $3500 per year for 20 years which would add up to roughly half of the principle of the loan then it is just forgiven? Who picks that up? Me?

j-mac

j-mac said:

The bottom line is that when you took the original contract out to receive the loan, the terms were clearly laid out in that contract. This doesn't change when the loan is sold. As long as you live up to what you said you would by signing it, then there is no problem.

j-mac

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I agreed to the terms laid out from that lender...when it went to another lender, those terms changed.

Boo Radley said:

That's where most the loans are, so specify the terms of the laons you're speaking of, what you think Obama is speaking of, and how many are likley to be more than 25 years. Maybe link something supporting that?

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Technically, not 'where most the loans are':

•Nonfederal student loans grew rapidly for most of the decade, increasing from 7% of education loans in 1997–1998 to 23% in 2005–2006. However, the growth in these loans, which carry no subsidy and generally have less favorable terms than federal loans, slowed in 2006–2007. Private loan volume declined slightly in inflation-adjusted dollars in 2007–2008 but still represents 23% of the total loan volume.(Source: The College Board, Trends in Student Aid, 2008)

Yes, 3 years old but the latest data I found...I doubt the 23% reported has moved to about 50% in those three years as, per the exerpt, it didn't change from '05-'08.