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Official: U.S. pulling out all troops from Iraq

Boo Radley said:
I have to note another mistake you make in comparing Iraq to WWII.
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I've been down this road before and so have others. If you can see anywhere I've compared Iraq to WWII then please do the quote. I simply don't have the inclination or interest to deal with people like yourself.
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Ikari said:
WW II, the last time we officially declared war, the last just war fought by America. If only out government were now so beholden to the Constitution as they were then. Iraq, which we spent nearly 10 years in, lost a good number of American lives, wasted 100's of billions of dollars, etc...they didn't bomb us. Just a FYI there.
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It was less than ten years and in fact Congress and the Senate each approved the war on Iraq. In fact Saddam didn't even follow the conditions of the ceasefire following Desert Storm.

The left will lie, that's just the way it is, which means you're going to have to get the facts for yourself.

The Iraq Resolution or the Iraq War Resolution (formally the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002,[1] Pub.L. 107-243, 116 Stat. 1498, enacted October 16, 2002, H.J.Res. 114) is a joint resolution passed by the United States Congress in October 2002 as Public Law No: 107-243, authorizing military action against Iraq.
 
The fact that Republicans are condemning Obama for following-through on a negotiated promise Republican President George Bush made to Iraq, shows just how dishonest & hypocritical they are.
 
Grant said:
I've been down this road before and so have others. If you can see anywhere I've compared Iraq to WWII then please do the quote. I simply don't have the inclination or interest to deal with people like yourself.
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A subtle one to be sure, but when you begin with people being against WWII, you invite comparison.
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Thunder said:
The fact that Republicans are condemning Obama for following-through on a negotiated promise Republican President George Bush made to Iraq, shows just how dishonest & hypocritical they are.
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They can go or they could have stayed. It seems clear though that Iraq will soon be a theocracy, much like Iran. The same is true of Egypt and now Libya.

U.S.
 
Grant said:
They can go or they could have stayed. It seems clear though that Iraq will soon be a theocracy, much like Iran. The same is true of Egypt and now Libya.

U.S.
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Is that up to us or them?
 
Grant said:
I invited no comparison whatsoever.

Anyone who cannot use the quote system should not be on these boards.
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You did, and trying to attack me won't hide it. :coffeepap
 
Grant said:
Times have changed dramatically since Jefferson's musings. While the United States may want to restrict itself diplomatic and trade relations it cannot insist other countries, or terrorist groups, do the same.

The American people were very much against involving themselves in WWII just 20 years after "The War To End All Wars" but that proved impossible. Since then there has been Communism with its 100 million plus victims and now Islamic terrorism. This goes well beyond trade and diplomatic relations and there is really nothing anyone can do about it except to meet the challenges the bad guys are always creating. That's just the way of the world.
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They were until this thing called Pearl Harbor happened.
 
Phys251 said:
They were until this thing called Pearl Harbor happened.
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Exactly. And as the Jihadists take over the Middle East there will be more Pearl Harbors. They are already murdering Christians in Egypt with impunity and this will continue. Then Israel will be next. Chanting against Jews, as we can see in the OWS demonstrations will become more commonplace, while complaining against any Islamic activities will be "Islamophobic". The Left has aligned themselves with the Jihadists so there is an ever growing fifth column in the western democracies.

It is impossible to be isolated from any of this.
 
We need to stay and export American Values.

It it working wonders.
 
We need to pull out of Afghanistan as well. We've done what we can with folks that all seem born with a suicide bomber gene.

We can just keep our drones and cruise missiles at the ready. Just 12 years ago there was genuine political apprehension at trying to kill Bin Laden, perhaps missing, and instead having 5-10 dead civilians that we could not "justify". In the political climate then, it was a legitimate concern to have to consider the ramifications of killing non-combatant semi-innocents. Clinton sturuggle mightily with scenarios presented to him, and with some legitimacy.

Not now. We drop the bombs on all kinds of Pakistani's, and collateral damage is no big deal. Hardly makes the news anymore.

Should such as an OBL show up again anywhere, we won't lose sleep bombing them moving forward. One of many things that has changed since 9-11.
 
Grant said:
Exactly. And as the Jihadists take over the Middle East there will be more Pearl Harbors. They are already murdering Christians in Egypt with impunity and this will continue. Then Israel will be next. Chanting against Jews, as we can see in the OWS demonstrations will become more commonplace, while complaining against any Islamic activities will be "Islamophobic". The Left has aligned themselves with the Jihadists so there is an ever growing fifth column in the western democracies.

It is impossible to be isolated from any of this.
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What's the solution, then? Everlasting whack-a-mole style military operations?
 
Grant said:
Do you understand the quote system?

If so quote were I compared WWII to the Iraq war. Otherwise just go your own way.
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It's been explained to you quite clearly. Pretending otherwise doesn't help you. :coffeepap
 
Thunder said:
in your very biased opinion.
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Yes, it is my very biased opinion that the Constitution should be followed. I know that's "out there" and "radical", but it is where I come from. The last just war we fought was WW II as it was the last time we actually declared wars before finding neat little ways around it. Now we can dispose of actual governments and foreign leaders without it, all at the behest of the President. Isn't getting rid of checks and balances great!
 
Grant said:
Exactly. And as the Jihadists take over the Middle East there will be more Pearl Harbors. They are already murdering Christians in Egypt with impunity and this will continue. Then Israel will be next. Chanting against Jews, as we can see in the OWS demonstrations will become more commonplace, while complaining against any Islamic activities will be "Islamophobic". The Left has aligned themselves with the Jihadists so there is an ever growing fifth column in the western democracies.

It is impossible to be isolated from any of this.
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So....what's the point of this hysteria? If we don't keep military operations in the ME, if we stop fighting wars without declaring war, etc. the Jewish people are doomed because OWS...what?

Egypt must deal with Egypt's problems. Israel must deal with Israel's problems. That little aside you threw in there to try to paint OWS as some anti semitic movement was rather....interesting. I don't see really a point you have here other then something about Jews.
 
Grant said:
Fighting to win is the solution.
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The solution is to fight an ideology? To keep going on this path which has shown to not bear fruit? Forever War is NEVER a solution.
 
Ikari said:
The solution is to fight an ideology? To keep going on this path which has shown to not bear fruit? Forever War is NEVER a solution.
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I think some use words like win as if there was something to win by fighting forever. A battle of ideas has to be fought with ideas and not troops on the whole. What places there may be for troops are largely lmited in scope with a very specific purpose that can be accomplished in a relatively short time. Anything that ends in endless war is rarely, if ever, fruitful or desirable.
 
Boo Radley said:
It's been explained to you quite clearly. Pretending otherwise doesn't help you. :coffeepap
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Explained quite clearly?

No, it hasn't. You said I made a comparison between the Iraq War and WWII, which was demonstrably false. Either use the quote where I made that claim or back off.
 
Boo Radley said:
So, explain your vision of fighting to win.
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Winning means there is no doubt who the victor is.

Not having a decisive victory means the war will continue indefinitely.

It's amazing that this still has to be explained, but perhaps that's just the age in which we live.
 
Boo Radley said:
I have to note another mistake you make in comparing Iraq to WWII. involving yourself in a war where millions are being killed, when a speicfic country has attecked you (Japan) and another had already declared war onyou (Germany) is not at all the same as invading a country on a pretext. Iraq had not attacked us and in fact was not capable of posing the kind of threat that would justify an invasion. It is pure hyperbole to compare the two as you do above.
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I repost this for you Grant.

I responded to this portion:

Grant said:
The American people were very much against involving themselves in WWII just 20 years after "The War To End All Wars" but that proved impossible. Since then there has been Communism with its 100 million plus victims and now Islamic terrorism. This goes well beyond trade and diplomatic relations and there is really nothing anyone can do about it except to meet the challenges the bad guys are always creating. That's just the way of the world.
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When you asked to show you, I responed witht he following:

Boo said:
A subtle one to be sure, but when you begin with people being against WWII, you invite comparison.
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When I said it was sutble, I meant just that. You make a progression linking all these together when in reality they don't link well. Iraq is part of that link and can't be linked this way.
 
Ikari said:
The solution is to fight an ideology? To keep going on this path which has shown to not bear fruit? Forever War is NEVER a solution.
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Most wars are fought against ideologies and certainly you should be familiar with those ideologies of the last century which cost so many millions of lives.

of course "FOREVER wars" are not the solution, which means there has to be a decisive victory. The sooner this occurs the better it is for everyone.
 
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