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Gaddafi killed as Libya's revolt claims hometown

Reg said:
Bush got the consent of Congress for both Iraq and Afghanistan. Obama is bombing and assassinating wherever the hell he wants.
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...and he got it done in how long? < 1 year.

Iraq / Afghanistan - here we are 10 years later.
 
zgoldsmith23 said:
...and he got it done in how long? < 1 year.

Iraq / Afghanistan - here we are 10 years later.
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And dont forget Obama only took under 3 years to kill Bin Laden.

But it still amazes me how uninformed many American's are about the Libyan conflict. Reading this and other thread, one would get the impression that the US was the only one throwing bombs around there.. pathetic attitude.
 
So Obama did in less than one term than what Reagan couldn't do in two terms. Get rid of Bin Laden and Gaddafi.

Well played sir. Well played.

I am actually very confident about Libya despite all the doom mongers. The genie is out of the bottle in the ME, people are not afraid anymore. If any islamist starts to trample on their rights they will just rise up again.
 
Never thought I'd see the day that so many self identified "Conservatives" would be genuinely upset at the notion that a guy who financed and supported terrorism against the USA was dead.

That's the true power of Obama Derangement Syndrome.
 
GarzaUK said:
So Obama did in less than one term than what Reagan couldn't do in two terms. Get rid of Bin Laden and Gaddafi.

Well played sir. Well played.

I am actually very confident about Libya despite all the doom mongers. The genie is out of the bottle in the ME, people are not afraid anymore. If any islamist starts to trample on their rights they will just rise up again.
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The funny thing is that this will repeat - again.

While they managed to take out the dictator - the platform that he stood on is still firmly in place and not hated quite as much as the man. That's why nations over there keep reliving the same part of history: it sneaks up on them and by the time they realized they fulked hardcore it's too late.
 
Jetboogieman said:
Never thought I'd see the day that so many self identified "Conservatives" would be genuinely upset at the notion that a guy who financed and supported terrorism against the USA was dead.

That's the true power of Obama Derangement Syndrome.
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I'm quite happy and surprised at Obama's treatment of terrorists. It at least gives him some measure of success since his domestic economic policies are FUBAR.

What is amusing is that so many lefties on this board would have been screaming for Bush's head if he were still president and authorized some of the identical missions.
 
I don't think anyone can accurately predict the destiny of Libya. Not even the Libyan's themselves.

Tribal alliances/discord will probably be the most influential catalyst.
 
I was pretty disgusted with the coverage of the whole event. It was ugly and vulgar. No problems with the actual reporting of the Death of Gaddafi but huge problems with the casual tossing around of such graphic images. The media frenzy has been ridiculous. Day time TV showing the same images over and over. Great for the kids to see. Not.

There's something cruel and fetishistic about showing the bloody evidence of the fall of a violent leader over and over and over and over again. Whether it's Gadaffi or Bin Laden or anybody else. There is no point. It's red meat for the red meat crowd and says much about the darker impulses of people who need this kind of stimulation.

If Bush or Obama had been shot in the head and someone put grisly photos of his corpse online and all over the media, what would be peoples reaction? What if it was our own Military? Would you be ok with it? I wouldn't.
 
Gill said:
What is amusing is that so many lefties on this board would have been screaming for Bush's head if he were still president and authorized some of the identical missions.
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I disagree, at least for my part. The Libya operation had

~ UN mandate
~ Support from Arab Nations
~ an internal rebellion
~ was requested by the Libyan themselves
~ a coherant plan
~ worked extensively and in tune with the NTC
~ no shock and awe with careful surgical like attacks, hence fewer civilian casualties by our part
~ no ground troops (therefore the Libyan people OWNED their revolution)

Iraq had none of this.

It says alot for the Bush Administration's ineptness that the Libya operation was the exact opposite of the Iraq operation and it worked so damned well. This my friend is what happens when liberals do regime change hehe. :cool:
 
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Serenity said:
I was pretty disgusted with the coverage of the whole event. It was ugly and vulgar. No problems with the actual reporting of the Death of Gaddafi but huge problems with the casual tossing around of such graphic images. The media frenzy has been ridiculous. Day time TV showing the same images over and over. Great for the kids to see. Not.

There's something cruel and fetishistic about showing the bloody evidence of the fall of a violent leader over and over and over and over again. Whether it's Gadaffi or Bin Laden or anybody else. There is no point. It's red meat for the red meat crowd and says much about the darker impulses of people who need this kind of stimulation.

If Bush or Obama had been shot in the head and someone put grisly photos of his corpse online and all over the media, what would be peoples reaction? What if it was our own Military? Would you be ok with it? I wouldn't.
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Those images are there to do what they are meant to do - put a shiver down every tyrant's spine.
 
GarzaUK said:
I disagree, at least for my part. The Libya operation had

~ UN mandate
~ Support from Arab Nations
~ an internal rebellion
~ was requested by the Libyan themselves
~ a coherant plan
~ worked extensively and in tune with the NTC
~ no shock and awe with careful surgical like attacks, hence fewer civilian casualties by our part
~ no ground troops (therefore the Libyan people OWNED their revolution)

Iraq had none of this.

It says alot for the Bush Administration's ineptness that the Libya operation was the exact opposite of the Iraq operation and it worked so damned well. This my friend is what happens when liberals do regime change hehe. :cool:
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Iraq had most of those elements also, but that's not the point.

What would have been your reaction if Bush had killed an American citizen?

What would have been your reaction if Bush repeatedly invaded a sovereign nation's (Pakistan) airspace and attacked their citizens?

What would have been your reaction if Bush had increased forces in Afghanistan as Obama did?

I could go on, but hopefully you get the point. (hint: the point is hypocrisy)
 
Jetboogieman said:
Obama is tight with Pakistan... :lamo :lamo :lamo

Was that before or after he violated their sovereignty by launching a strike in the middle of their country to kill Bin Laden.

Erod, almost every single attack you make on the president sounds so contrived and desperate you've never been worth taking seriously... well ever.
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Around here, no. Of course, this forum has devolved into an Occupy Wall Street chat club. So comments like that are reassuring, to be sure. God help me if I ever regress to your ilk.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I've got to get back to paying everyone's taxes. Most here do not.
 
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i wish ı were able to believe that American government and nato killed Kaddafi just for democracy....just a wish..
 
Reg said:
The Muslim who shot up all those people at Ft Hood told us who he was.

The US government didn't believe him.
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Yes, that's truly amazing. They will practice political correctness to the point that even when they are being openly threatened they will sit like birds on a branch, willing to be knocked off rather than offend.

There appears to be an unrealistic optimism based on nothing more than hope, that more sophisticated Gaddafis and Saddams won't rise to take their place. That there will be a truly "Arab Spring".

If it comes down to a matter of who has the stronger beliefs and are willing to sacrifice their lives to defend them, the answer seems clear.
 
Medusa said:
i wish ı were able to believe that American government and nato killed Kaddafi just for democracy....just a wish..
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Did they ever give a clear reason?

The US President by-passed Congress, claimed they were leading from the rear, etc. and don't appear to have any post-Gadaffi plan at all. Perhaps the French and British might have have put some thought into it though, especially the French
 
GarzaUK said:
So Obama did in less than one term than what Reagan couldn't do in two terms. Get rid of Bin Laden and Gaddafi.
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Why would Reagan go after Bin Laden? And of course his bombing of Tripoli slowed Gadaffai right down at the time.

I am actually very confident about Libya despite all the doom mongers. The genie is out of the bottle in the ME, people are not afraid anymore. If any islamist starts to trample on their rights they will just rise up again.
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Yeah, and how's that worked for them so far? When democracy was being introduced in Iraq many in the West, especially among the left, downplayed and ridiculed the entire idea. Why would they now support the idea of democracy in the Middle East? This is an opening the Islamists and Iran will not ignore.
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Gill said:
Iraq had most of those elements also, but that's not the point.
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No, it really didn't.
Gill said:
What would have been your reaction if Bush had killed an American citizen?
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He killed alot of them in Texas, didn't really mind (unless they were innocent).
Gill said:
What would have been your reaction if Bush repeatedly invaded a sovereign nation's (Pakistan) airspace and attacked their citizens?
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To kill Bin Laden, wouldn't have minded it all.
Gill said:
What would have been your reaction if Bush had increased forces in Afghanistan as Obama did?
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I was for Bush's war in Afghanistan, unfortunately his admin fubar'ed it up like every foreign policy.
Gill said:
I could go on, but hopefully you get the point. (hint: the point is hypocrisy)
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I have supported Republican wars and I have supported Democrat wars, I look at each conflict on its merits and disadvantages. What is surprising to me is how the neo-hawks in the last few years have become neo-chickens since a democrat came into office lol.
 
Grant said:
Why would Reagan go after Bin Laden? And of course his bombing of Tripoli slowed Gadaffai right down at the time.
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It was a joke, I know Reagan and Bin Laden were best friends.


Grant said:
Yeah, and how's that worked for them so far? When democracy was being introduced in Iraq many in the West, especially among the left, downplayed and ridiculed the entire idea. Why would they now support the idea of democracy in the Middle East? This is an opening the Islamists and Iran will not ignore.
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Well I can't speak for any other "left" person, but I have been saying (since the 6 years I have been here), that democracy can come to the ME, but it HAS to be the people of the ME who do it, not outside influences. Though I have to admit I wasn't expecting this Arab spring, was quite a nice surprise.

I actually have quite alot of hope for Libya, more so that I have for Egypt.

You have to understand that Arabs are a very proud people. When Iraq was invaded, sure they were happy that Saddam was gone, however THEY did not do it, a foreign army did it. While it was good Saddam was gone, they felt humilated and some turned angry.

When I see waving flags of green, black and red in masses in Tripoli, I didn't see that in Baghdad, when I see Libyans cleaning their streets, I seen Iraqis leave their streets to rot, when I see Libyans helping each other out with the water shortage, I seen Iraqi's looting. Do you know why?

Because in Libya, it was THEIR revolution. Sure we helped, but the western governments were clever to not do too much, we did just enough to make sure Libyans were in control. Sure it cost lives, but it was Libyans risking THEIR life for freedom, it was THEIR sacrifices, it was THEIR victories.

And whats more, every Libyan had a hand in it.
Benghazi FF started the revolution
Misrata FF ensured its survival
Nafusa mountains FF made it victorious
and Tripoli FF finished it off.

Everyone has a stake to make sure this does well. Everyone has sacrificed. I can't say the same for the Iraqis. That's why I am hopeful for Libya.

And you overplay Iran, the Iranian theocracy is not long for this world.
 
GarzaUK said:
It was a joke, I know Reagan and Bin Laden were best friends.
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And another joke.

It's difficult to tell when you Brits are joking or serious. It's better to assume you're always just joking.
 
I wanna see a woman lead Libya in whatever direction comes out of it. A female dictator mawhahaha :3
 
GarzaUK said:
Those images are there to do what they are meant to do - put a shiver down every tyrant's spine.
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Agree. I do not mind the images but saw several news media outlets show the images with NO warning and lots of people have small children at home and should at least get the warning to take the kids out of a room before they splash an pics of a bloody head all over the tv screen. I have a few stay at home mom friends that were not happy with this and I cannot blame em:(
 
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