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Catholic Bishop In Kansas Indicted For Child Sex Abuse Conspiracy

StillBallin75 said:
Yeah I would definitely agree that the Catholic Church is perceived to be an institution pervaded by sexual abuse simply because it's reported by the media so much, giving the public a distorted view of the Church as a whole.Doesn't diminish the egregiousness of their actual crimes though, and the fact that leadership often tried to cover it up and sweep it under the rug. Doesn't diminish the egregiousness of their actual crimes though, and the fact that leadership often tried to cover it up and sweep it under the rug.
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When they do try to hide these scumbags they should be criminally charged. But this lets try to demonize a whole religion because of the actions of a few is ridiculous.

I did make this poll a while back to see how many people try to blame a whole religion on the actions of a handful of people.
http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls...hes-near-elementuaryschools-and-daycares.html
 
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No one is alleging the RCC ran the only organized pedophilia ring to ever exist. Just the largest, the longest lasting, and the only one some people seem willing to excuse.
 
MaggieD said:
Of course, this is facetious. As for encouraging? When "The Catholic Church" engages in damage control rather than calling 911, that is encouraging pedophilia.
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Public school officials have been known to engage in damage control. Lately schools have been much tougher on those who do this though which is a good thing.
 
For a little perspective, the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children doesn't see a "Catholic problem." Nor do insurance companies that offer sexual misconduct liability coverage.

"Insurance companies that cover all denominations, such as Guide One Center for Risk Management, which has more than 40,000 church clients, does not charge Catholic churches higher premiums. "We don't see vast difference in the incidence rate between one denomination and another," says Sarah Buckley, assistant vice president of corporate communications. "It's pretty even across the denominations." It's been that way for decades."

Priests Commit No More Abuse Than Other Males - The Daily Beast
 
nota bene said:
For a little perspective, the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children doesn't see a "Catholic problem." Nor do insurance companies that offer sexual misconduct liability coverage.

"Insurance companies that cover all denominations, such as Guide One Center for Risk Management, which has more than 40,000 church clients, does not charge Catholic churches higher premiums. "We don't see vast difference in the incidence rate between one denomination and another," says Sarah Buckley, assistant vice president of corporate communications. "It's pretty even across the denominations." It's been that way for decades."

Priests Commit No More Abuse Than Other Males - The Daily Beast
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And just how would they have accurate statistics? ...seeing as the church itself had covered up this conduct for years??
 
nota bene said:
For a little perspective, the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children doesn't see a "Catholic problem." Nor do insurance companies that offer sexual misconduct liability coverage.

"Insurance companies that cover all denominations, such as Guide One Center for Risk Management, which has more than 40,000 church clients, does not charge Catholic churches higher premiums. "We don't see vast difference in the incidence rate between one denomination and another," says Sarah Buckley, assistant vice president of corporate communications. "It's pretty even across the denominations." It's been that way for decades."

Priests Commit No More Abuse Than Other Males - The Daily Beast
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Covering up a crime/comspiracy/aiding and abetting/etc. are intentional acts. In the US, to my almost certain knowledge, nobody can insure against damages for their OWN intentional acts.

The liability policies you refer to ensure against the risk that, despite having taken all reasonable precautions, a child is nonetheless harmed by an adult affiliated with the church.
 
1Perry said:
I've never saw where it's been recruited. Link? Same for encouraged. Covered up? Yes indeed.
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I have the experience of having studied for the Catholic priesthood at one point in my life. I gave that up, and eventually gave up Catholicism, not over pedophiles, but over the Church's treatment of women and the fact that I'm pro-choice (legally, at least).

What I can tell you is that they don't actively look for pedophiles. On the other hand, many of those recruited are not exactly sexually-healthy individuals. When you take someone that isn't healthy, and encourage them to repress their sexuality...what ends up coming out is often twisted and undesirable. And it does comes out.
 
rocket88 said:
What I can tell you is that they don't actively look for pedophiles. On the other hand, many of those recruited are not exactly sexually-healthy individuals. When you take someone that isn't healthy, and encourage them to repress their sexuality...what ends up coming out is often twisted and undesirable. And it does comes out.
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How would they be able to screen for pedophiles? Put the applicant in a room by himself with a camera watching and send in midget dressed a little boy or girl and see if that person behaves odd? Hook sensors up to him and show him flash cards of different women and different children to see what the individual gets sexually aroused by?
 
jamesrage said:
How would they be able to screen for pedophiles? Put the applicant in a room by himself with a camera watching and send in midget dressed a little boy or girl and see if that person behaves odd? Hook sensors up to him and show him flash cards of different women and different children to see what the individual gets sexually aroused by?
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Some progress has been made, James. To my knowledge, the RCC no longer starts any child on the path to becoming clergy at the age of 14. However, as Rocket said, few healthy adults want/need/choose/can tolerate a lifetime of celibacy.
 
rocket88 said:
I have the experience of having studied for the Catholic priesthood at one point in my life. I gave that up, and eventually gave up Catholicism, not over pedophiles, but over the Church's treatment of women and the fact that I'm pro-choice (legally, at least).

What I can tell you is that they don't actively look for pedophiles. On the other hand, many of those recruited are not exactly sexually-healthy individuals. When you take someone that isn't healthy, and encourage them to repress their sexuality...what ends up coming out is often twisted and undesirable. And it does comes out.
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I couldn't argue with that, but that is indeed a different arguement. Then again, we want their urges suppressed.
 
MaggieD said:
And just how would they have accurate statistics? ...seeing as the church itself had covered up this conduct for years??
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Did you read the Daily Beast article I linked? And see the John Jay College of Criminal Justice study stats? What was said about the school for the deaf (mentioned earlier in this thread)?
 
nota bene said:
Did you read the Daily Beast article I linked? And see the John Jay College of Criminal Justice study stats? What was said about the school for the deaf (mentioned earlier in this thread)?
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Does any of this excuse the Bishop in Kansas, IYO, nota bene?
 
Pinkie said:
Some progress has been made, James. To my knowledge, the RCC no longer starts any child on the path to becoming clergy at the age of 14. However, as Rocket said, few healthy adults want/need/choose/can tolerate a lifetime of celibacy.
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A life of celibacy doesn't have anything to do with whether or not someone wants to molest kids. 50% of child molesters are married. If someone molests a child its because they want to molest a child, not because they are in a occupation that says they can't get any. Because if these sexual urges were so strong that the catholic priests couldn't resist then there would priest and nun sex scandals , there would be catholic priests caught in John stings or a priest using his position to get sexual favors from adult female parishioners. Those that molest children do so because they find young children sexually attractive.

Pedophilia - children, causes, DSM, functioning, therapy, adults, person, people
In the United States, about 50% of men arrested for pedophilia are married.
 
I for one am glad to hear this. Then again, I'd like to see the pope indicted for all the cover-ups and parish-switching indulged in over the decades with the knowledge and approval of the Vatican.

None of this could have happened to these hundreds upon hundreds of children over the years without a widespread conspiracy of silence engulfing the entire church hierarchy.
 
Charging those who cover sexual abuse up is a positive development.

As others have said, child sexual abuse by the clergy is certainly not limited to Catholicism. However, after a career investigating child abuse I will say that the Catholic hierarchy would do anything and everything to protect their priests and nuns from prosecution. You would be investigating a situation and *poof* the priest or nun was reassigned to Spain or South America. They were not removed from the the priesthood or nunhood and they were not placed in positions where they had limited access to children. It wasn't until the federal sex abuse registry was formed that it came to light that many of these priest and nuns so removed were returned to the US, committed further offenses, were shipped out again, and the process started over.

In other religions, ministers and other church workers who are caught sexually abusing children are fired, stripped of their credentials and black-balled. Also, I never encountered any church other than the Catholic church that tried to halt abuse investigations by saying it was a church matter and the state had no business investigating it.

While the Catholics are not be more prone to be pedophiles than other groups, the reputation the Catholic hierarchy has for protecting pedophiles may well cause more pedophiles to seek to enter the priesthood and convents.
 
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jamesrage said:
A life of celibacy doesn't have anything to do with whether or not someone wants to molest kids. 50% of child molesters are married. If someone molests a child its because they want to molest a child, not because they are in a occupation that says they can't get any. Because if these sexual urges were so strong that the catholic priests couldn't resist then there would priest and nun sex scandals , there would be catholic priests caught in John stings or a priest using his position to get sexual favors from adult female parishioners. Those that molest children do so because they find young children sexually attractive.

Pedophilia - children, causes, DSM, functioning, therapy, adults, person, people
In the United States, about 50% of men arrested for pedophilia are married.
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I agree, except that IMO, a pedophile will do almost anything to gain trusted access to children. Married? Sure....why not?

But you're right...they're looking for "cover"; they do not have a desire for sex with an adult, though they might could fake it.
 
DiAnna said:
I for one am glad to hear this. Then again, I'd like to see the pope indicted for all the cover-ups and parish-switching indulged in over the decades with the knowledge and approval of the Vatican.

None of this could have happened to these hundreds upon hundreds of children over the years without a widespread conspiracy of silence engulfing the entire church hierarchy.
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Ayup, couldn't agree more. And making John Paul a saint in record time?

Makes a mockery of the whole religion, IMO. He knew...and did nothing.
 
Frolicking Dinosaurs said:
Charging those who cover sexual abuse up is a positive development.

As others have said, child sexual abuse by the clergy is certainly not limited to Catholicism. However, after a career investigating child abuse I will say that the Catholic hierarchy would do anything and everything to protect their priests and nuns from prosecution. You would be investigating a situation and *poof* the priest or nun was reassigned to Spain or South America. They were not removed from the the priesthood or nunhood and they were not placed in positions where they had limited access to children. It wasn't until the federal sex abuse registry was formed that it came to light that many of these priest and nuns so removed were returned to the US, committed further offenses, were shipped out again, and the process started over.

In other religions, ministers and other church workers who are caught sexually abusing children are fired, stripped of their credentials and black-balled. Also, I never encountered any church other than the Catholic church that tried to halt abuse investigations by saying it was a church matter and the state had no business investigating it.

While the Catholics are not be more prone to be pedophiles than other groups, the reputation the Catholic hierarchy has for protecting pedophiles may well cause more pedophiles to seek to enter the priesthood and convents.
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Could you provide some examples of other denominations' ministers who have been fired, stripped of their credentials, and blackballed? In what proportion/percentage compared to Catholic priests? I ask because I'm no expert on this subject, but just from Googling around today, it doesn't seem to me that that the "Catholic" problem isn't any greater, only more public and "focused."
 
nota bene said:
Could you provide some examples of other denominations' ministers who have been fired, stripped of their credentials, and blackballed? In what proportion/percentage compared to Catholic priests? I ask because I'm no expert on this subject, but just from Googling around today, it doesn't seem to me that that the "Catholic" problem isn't any greater, only more public and "focused."
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Here is a list of 838 cases: Child Sexual Molestation by Protestant Clergy of Every Denomination
 
nota bene said:
Could you provide some examples of other denominations' ministers who have been fired, stripped of their credentials, and blackballed? In what proportion/percentage compared to Catholic priests? I ask because I'm no expert on this subject, but just from Googling around today, it doesn't seem to me that that the "Catholic" problem isn't any greater, only more public and "focused."
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Nota bene, what's different is the strict hierarchy of the RCC and its determination to keep child sex abuse hidden. Some of these priests and nuns had careers lasting several decades, and racked up hundreds of victims...and yet the Church kept protecting them.

I never can understand why people are generally outraged over child sex abuse UNLESS it is committed within the RCC.
 
jamesrage said:
How would they be able to screen for pedophiles? Put the applicant in a room by himself with a camera watching and send in midget dressed a little boy or girl and see if that person behaves odd? Hook sensors up to him and show him flash cards of different women and different children to see what the individual gets sexually aroused by?
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There actually is a test like that, but they don't put candidates for the priesthood through that.

It's about attracting people who are sexually healthy. A start could be to get rid of celibacy. As of now, the priesthood is not an attractive option if you are a sexually healthy young man, because they want to have sex. If they could get married and have a sexual relationship, that could potentially make it more attractive to healthy people.

You'll never get rid of pedophiles entirely. In that sense the priesthood is not unlike society as a whole. They can take measures to make being a priest more attractive to people who aren't ****ed in the head.
 
rocket88 said:
There actually is a test like that, but they don't put candidates for the priesthood through that.

It's about attracting people who are sexually healthy. A start could be to get rid of celibacy. As of now, the priesthood is not an attractive option if you are a sexually healthy young man, because they want to have sex. If they could get married and have a sexual relationship, that could potentially make it more attractive to healthy people.

You'll never get rid of pedophiles entirely. In that sense the priesthood is not unlike society as a whole. They can take measures to make being a priest more attractive to people who aren't ****ed in the head.
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If only they could get married or if only they could have casual sex then they wouldn't molests no children. You do realize how idiotic that is? Normal healthy men do not become pedophiles just because they are not married or not engaging in casual sex. 50% of pedophiles arrested are married. And besides that only 4% of priests since 1950 were involved in pedophilia.So the 96% are not molesting children.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/16/AR2010041602026.html
 
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jamesrage said:
If only they could get married or if only they could have casual sex then they wouldn't molests no children. You do realize how idiotic that is? Normal healthy men do not become pedophiles just because they are not married or not engaging in casual sex. 50% of pedophiles arrested are married. And besides that only 4% of priests since 1950 were involved in pedophilia.So the 96% are not molesting children.

Five myths about the Catholic sexual abuse scandal
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You're missing the point. If priests could marry, the priesthood would be a more attractive option to sexually healthy young men. Sexually healthy young men do not find the idea of "no sex ever" to be very attractive.

I'm not saying that pedophiles would be stopped by being able to marry. I'm saying that being able to get married would attract more non-pedophiles.

Denying it's a problem does not help anyone. Least of all the Church. At the very least, it's a PR problem. The Church needs to put as much effort into looking like they're doing something as they have put into covering it up.
 
rocket88 said:
You're missing the point. If priests could marry, the priesthood would be a more attractive option to sexually healthy young men. Sexually healthy young men do not find the idea of "no sex ever" to be very attractive.


I'm not saying that pedophiles would be stopped by being able to marry. I'm saying that being able to get married would attract more non-pedophiles.
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96% of the priests are not child molesters.

50% of pedophiles caught are married.So whether or not a priest is allowed to marry is a non issue.

Pedophilia - children, causes, DSM, functioning, therapy, adults, person, people
In the United States, about 50% of men arrested for pedophilia are married.

Read more: Pedophilia - children, causes, DSM, functioning, therapy, adults, person, people Pedophilia - children, causes, DSM, functioning, therapy, adults, person, people

Denying it's a problem does not help anyone. Least of all the Church. At the very least, it's a PR problem. The Church needs to put as much effort into looking like they're doing something as they have put into covering it up.
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The catholic church needs to have a no tolerance policy when it comes to child molesters and start turning them into the authorities instead of worrying whether or not their image will be hurt.
 
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