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Republicans block Obama jobs bill

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Conservative said:
Given your way and based upon socialist countries around the world, this govt. isn't spending enough on social programs such as welfare and that is your beef?
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No.
If you wanna debate socialism conservative go to that one thread where me and you were debating but then you just stopped all the sudden.

You have a problem competing in society? Why do you have a problem with the American income earners keeping more of what they earn for that is a tax cut? Tell me why you believe a free enterprise and capitalistic economy needs a 3.7 TRILLION dollar govt? If you truly want to cut the deficit and debt then cut the damn spending, period.
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You dont have to keep spending and increase taxation...


Yes it is anti American to be a socialist as that isn't the foundation upon which this country was built.
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Where in the constitution does it say we have to be capitalist?
Where does it lay out the economic policy?
Oh yea it doesnt.....

Free enterpise and capitalism made this country the envy of the world so yes I do believe you hate this country probably because you cannot compete.
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Hahah i cant compete...
Im glad you know me soo well conservative...
If you wanna keep on talking about socialism and how "anti american it is" please go back to that one thread titled something along the lines of "Why is communism and socialism hated"..
But you never answered my question either...
 
Eighty Deuce said:
I often wonder just how ignorant liberals can be. Do you wonder that ? Do you wonder how stupid Conservatives can be ?

Ronald Reagan inherited a mess. He lowered tax rates. And he closed loopholes. Revenues went up. Way up. Libtards like to point out that he increased the debt, while forgetting that he fixed just about everything else. He rebuilt the military, American pride, and paved the way for the boom 90's.

Now we got Obama. Who has taken deficits to percents-of-GDP that even Reagan could not imagine. And unlike Reagan, Obama wasted it all. ****ed up everything worse. Everything.
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In bold: Thats kind of funny... :lamo
Dont Obama fans use that same excuse....
 
Ronald Reagan inherited a mess. He lowered tax rates. And he closed poopholes. Revenues went up. Way up. Libtards like to point out that he increased the debt, while forgetting that he fixed just about everything else. He rebuilt the military, American pride, and paved the way for the boom 90's.
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:lamo:lamo:lamo:lamo:lamo You just said he created the .com L O L.
 
Jryan said:
You do realize that you spined my post way out of what I was saying? It is an ideology that states, "If a country can't produce enogh goods to support its residence, then it is a failed society?" Christ, your post literally make me facepalm in RL.
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So you believe America with its 15 trillion dollar economy is a failed society? Wow, have we gotten off the thread topic.
 
Smokified said:
It is very relevent to the debate. You are pushing socialism as the path to a better lifestyle and the evidence is that none of these countries are very desireable, especially by the standards that American's have learned to live by.
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It has nothing to do with what happened in history....


Sounds to me like you are just trying to dodge any evidence that shows how very wrong you are, just to hang onto some false sense of pride and an argument that you don't fully understand.
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How am i wrong?
I merely asked a question which he refused to answer
 
Catawba said:
Your tax figures do not reflect FICA taxes paid by wage earners...
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Why should they? FICA taxes are the basis for social security and medicare both of which the tax payer will (should) get back upon retirement. How many of the 1% do you REALLY think will sign up for either SS or MC?
 
Catawba said:
Insults noted. I see, you are of the shoot the messenger mentality. As was specified, the figures were from a "recent study (Norton & Ariely, 2010)". You interpreted the IRS tax figures incorrectly.
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I am glad you are at least smart enough to identify an insult, except the last one was actually a question. If you truely are mentally disabled I would cut you some slack for your blatent ignornace.

As I explained to you, you are using a biased blog to dispute actual figures. This is manipulated information. Post real IRS data and then give us your analysis without just jumping on the wagon of some article that is based on opinion.
 
Jryan said:
:lamo:lamo:lamo:lamo:lamo You just said he created the .com L O L.
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Grasshopper, you are having trouble reading. When added to your trouble thinking, I suggest you step away from the keyboard. Try reading some non-fiction. Might I suggest such as "Truman". Or books about Churchill. Or Teddy Roosevelt. Or Reagan. You have so very much to learn.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
No.
If you wanna debate socialism conservative go to that one thread where me and you were debating but then you just stopped all the sudden.


You dont have to keep spending and increase taxation...



Where in the constitution does it say we have to be capitalist?
Where does it lay out the economic policy?
Oh yea it doesnt.....


Hahah i cant compete...
Im glad you know me soo well conservative...
If you wanna keep on talking about socialism and how "anti american it is" please go back to that one thread titled something along the lines of "Why is communism and socialism hated"..
But you never answered my question either...
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Where in the original Constitution does it say PROVIDE for Domestic Welfare? The Constution was never intended to be an economic document but a governance document. Suggest you read some American history. Only the nuts in the OWS protests seem to support destruction of the capitalistic system, how will that help this country?

I prospered in the capitalistic economy because I was rewarded for my efforts, for my hard work, and for the initiative I displayed. I probably give more to charity than you make, and I have no problem with what someone else makes. Why do you?
 
TheDemSocialist said:
It has nothing to do with what happened in history....



How am i wrong?
I merely asked a question which he refused to answer
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When did I talk about history? I am talking about right now. If you want socialism or communism, go live in Russia or China. That is how they do things. That is not how we do it in America.

I think you need to go back and read again, I don't think I refused to answer anything.
 
LOL! "We learn from history". That hasn't happened once in history, hence history repeating itself. What has happened in the past is irrelevant to the solution that corrects the future. The point of my statement, that you took out of context, is that regardless of who has ****ed up the economy in the past, Obama has only made things worse.
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I would say we should start learning from history...
No want has happened in the past is still very relevant sense we have carried over plans from the past...
I wouldnt say Obama has made things "worse", i would say he hasnt acted in the right seeming ways or repealed the right policies... OWS should say a lot to our(my) opinion towards Obama.

Yes, but they are not the same, and the people that should learn from them, simply just do not. And even if we did learn from a spcific crisis, it does not mean that the same solution applies to a different, even similar crisis. If we were to actually be learning from these situations we would not need to always be solving them.
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This is true....

People are spending at a very low rate compared to 5 years ago. This is the problem. What do you feel the various other reasons are?
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Tax system broke, loose regulations, jobs over seas,

Businesses could have higher profits by expanding their businesses (which would require more employeed), yet they are not doing this because the economy is unstable and it is not a very wise risk to take.
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Ohhh sooo its just "too risky" soo if we keep that mindset and that pace then we are never gonna get out of here...

Since there are all of these companies out there just collecting money and not growing to meet the demands of the growing population, what is stopping you, or any other idiot whining about jobs from starting your own company and employing these unemployed people?
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Ohh so i get it... Its my fault now! Its my fault...


There is however a correlation between people having more money in their pockets and how much they spend. As the cost of living increases, people will spend less on other items. Period. If we do not get government spending under control and stop wasting hard earned Amercan money, the economy WILL improve.
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I agree we should cut back on spending but we probably disagree on what to cut spending for....
 
Smokified said:
When did I talk about history? I am talking about right now. If you want socialism or communism, go live in Russia or China. That is how they do things. That is not how we do it in America.
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:doh
If you wanna talk about socialism i advice you to go to this thread....
http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-constitution/94893-why-socialism-and-communism-hated.html

I think you need to go back and read again, I don't think I refused to answer anything.
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Wasnt talking about you was talkin about Conservative...
 
Jryan said:
Ssssssppppppinnnnn Ignore post, LOL you crack me up.
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Keep dodging that reailty, Super Brain. Show us all your dancing skills.

You do realize that you spined my post way out of what I was saying? It is an ideology that states, "If a country can't produce enogh goods to support its residence, then it is a failed society?" Christ, your post literally make me facepalm in RL.
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Your ideology is a joke. I produce enough goods or perform enough work to support my own residence. Why should the "country" produce the goods to support society? And before you go spouting your propoganda, I mean why should America just support it's residence? Do you even know what "a country" is? What is America?
 
Conservative said:
Where in the original Constitution does it say PROVIDE for Domestic Welfare?
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It says General Welfare which various constitutional scholars have different interpretations of that..

The Constution was never intended to be an economic document but a governance document.
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Thank you for proving my point.
Socialism is a economic system...

Suggest you read some American history.
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:roll:

Only the nuts in the OWS protests seem to support destruction of the capitalistic system, how will that help this country?
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Sure there are some anti capitalists in OWS like myself when i was at my local one it doenst mean they are an anti capitalist movement....


I prospered in the capitalistic economy because I was rewarded for my efforts, for my hard work, and for the initiative I displayed. I probably give more to charity than you make, and I have no problem with what someone else makes. Why do you?
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I am a student... You want to compare charity givings? This has to do with the current debate how Conservative?
 
TheDemSocialist said:
I would say we should start learning from history...
No want has happened in the past is still very relevant sense we have carried over plans from the past...
I wouldnt say Obama has made things "worse", i would say he hasnt acted in the right seeming ways or repealed the right policies... OWS should say a lot to our(my) opinion towards Obama.

So really your statement was completely irrelevant in the first place. We have not learned anything from history and we are currently in this situation. Let's not forget that the point of this thread is to debate Obama's job plan. Obama has not even learned one thing from this past 3 years as a failure president.


This is true....
I know. And it has a huge effect on our current situation

Tax system broke, loose regulations, jobs over seas,
I thought taxes didn't have anything to do with it? Loose regulations? Jobs over seas? Are you really suggesting that we hold American companies hostage and live in an isolated land of our own fantasies? There is a world out there far beyond your nose and far beyond America. There are realities that need to be considered that don't necessary go along with how you feel it should be.

Ohhh sooo its just "too risky" soo if we keep that mindset and that pace then we are never gonna get out of here...
So now you are suggesting that we force companies to hire people? Liberal logic would suggest that these corporations are trying to own all of the money. So why, if they could, would they not expand their business to make even more money? Oh, wait, they would if the economy would support it.

Ohh so i get it... Its my fault now! Its my fault...
If you are sitting around whining and begging for other people's money while living in hardship, then yes, your situation is your fault. Your reply is an obvious deflection from the point of my question. What is stopping you from making your own business and running it the way you want to? Wouldn't that solve a lot of problems for you and some people that you are able to provide jobs to? Above you were just saying that the "it's too risky" mindset was bad yet you won't go by your own logic and just create a solution to the problem?


I agree we should cut back on spending but we probably disagree on what to cut spending for....
Right, because you would want to spend more on distributing wealth and I would want to spend more on education which would essentiall make us all more individually wealthy without somebody holding your hand and doing it for you....
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Replies in bold.
 
TheDemSocialist;1059910536]It says General Welfare which various constitutional scholars have different interpretations of that..
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The Original Constitution says PROMOTE not PROVIDE for Domestic welfare so how can that be misinterpreted?

Thank you for proving my point.

Socialism is a economic system...
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Yes, and a failed one at that, failed except for those that need the govt. to take care of them and those that cannot compete. The private sector can do both better. Our economy was created so that individuals help others and left alone they can do that. Micro managing of the govt has created the 14.9 trillion dollar debt which is 100% of our yearly GDP. Our Founders believed in individualism not socialism. They promoted individual wealth creation and a small limited govt. which is the opposite of socialism


Sure there are some anti capitalists in OWS like myself when i was at my local one it doenst mean they are an anti capitalist movement....
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What are the people protesting for and why Wall Street as they don't make the laws. Interesting, growing up during the Vietnam War era there were a lot of protests then, I didn't have time to protest as I was looking for and found a job. How are the protests going to create jobs for those individuals?

I am a student... You want to compare charity givings? This has to do with the current debate how Conservative?
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Yes, I figured you were a student, the point was I give a lot of my money to charity as do millions of other Americans. I keep hearing about the income disparity but never what those evil rich people do with their money. Why is that? When I give my money to charity I know where it goes, when I am forced to give my money to the govt. for sociali engineering I have no idea where it is going. What does a large bloated Federal Bureaucracy know about a social problem in your local community?

I have no use for socialists and very little for kids who claim to know it all having never been in the work force or experienced the responsibility of having to really take care of themselves. When I hear someone talking about fair share why don't I ever hear someone defining fair share? Why don't you get a job and then you can give whatever you think your fair share is instead of using a term that you never define?
 
TheDemSocialist said:
It says General Welfare which various constitutional scholars have different interpretations of that..
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Bull****. Constitutional scholars do not disagree. Its the liberal pukes who have bastardized the issue.

What did Jefferson think ? Here are his exact words. What is so hard to ****ing understand ?

To take from one because it is thought that his own industry and that of his father’s has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers, have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association—the guarantee to every one of a free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it.

Thomas Jefferson
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Sure there are some anti capitalists in OWS like myself when i was at my local one it doenst mean they are an anti capitalist movement....
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But it is. Excuses don't matter. Don't I wish we could give the OWS folks the entire state of NY. Then watch them commit socio-economic suicide. Losers.


I am a student... You want to compare charity givings? This has to do with the current debate how Conservative?
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Now THAT's a shock ! Conservatives are more charitable then liberals also, btw. Google it.
 
Jryan said:
Seeing as how this post was directed at me, I'm a full-time student and a part-time employee. We should redefine personal attack to this.
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This has no bearing on the fact that I think the entire premise of your socialist arguments are BS. I have already been a full time student and a part time employee. Real life doesn't start until after that.
 
Conservative said:
Imagine that, talking about Obama on a thread about Obama and pointing out the failure of him to create jobs as he promised he would do. How can you talk about what it is when you ignore what it is. The results speak for themselves. On your job if you spent as much money as he has can generated the results he has three years later you would be fired.

And as a former military person and someone who has spent 35 years in the business world I am totally shocked if you believe Obama has any leadership skills at all. The Marines I know including a Nephew out of Camp Pendleton who served in Iraq understand leadership. I would have thought you would too
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Let's see... I tell you about my military service, you bring it up to make a personal slam on me and my service in the USMC.

Stay classy!
 
Dickieboy said:
My ideology concerning your inability to get a web link to work is failing???? I'm not bitter but rather you link would work.

ps. about how far back was that post???
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I told you, I linked it right but the entire website was down. Looks like it is up now. Didn't have to change a thing. Just had to wait for the web administrator of Nationaljournal.com to get his site running again. If you are truly interested check it out... unless just coming after me is your game here.
 
poweRob said:
I told you, I linked it right but the entire website was down. Looks like it is up now. Didn't have to change a thing. Just had to wait for the web administrator of Nationaljournal.com to get his site running again. If you are truly interested check it out... unless just coming after me is your game here.
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Oh yes...thanks. Now to continue, your position as stated is 'Republicans played chicken with the debt limit and the S&P themselves said that was the reason why they downgraded. Yes, it was the Republican's fault.'

But the article you link to states 'To be sure, S&P didn’t specifically single out Republicans. It criticized the overall $2.4 trillion deal as too limited, and it implicitly criticized both political parties for refusing to tackle their sacred cows – entitlements, in the case of Democrats; tax increases in the case of Republicans'

Looks like a debunk to me...?
 
Dickieboy said:
Oh yes...thanks. Now to continue, your position as stated is 'Republicans played chicken with the debt limit and the S&P themselves said that was the reason why they downgraded. Yes, it was the Republican's fault.'

But the article you link to states 'To be sure, S&P didn’t specifically single out Republicans. It criticized the overall $2.4 trillion deal as too limited, and it implicitly criticized both political parties for refusing to tackle their sacred cows – entitlements, in the case of Democrats; tax increases in the case of Republicans'

Looks like a debunk to me...?
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Cherry-picking ftl... Right there near the top of the article:

S&P was remarkably blunt that its downgrade was mostly about heightened political risks: “The political brinksmanship of recent months highlights what we see as America’s governance and policymaking becoming less stable, less effective, and less predictable than what we previously believed,” it said.
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MOSTLY about. Mostly. Kind of corners the reason and where it came from don't you think?
 
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poweRob said:
Cherry-picking ftl... Right there near the top of the article:



MOSTLY about. Mostly. Kind of corners the reason and where it came from don't you think?
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Where does the quote you are using to support your argument disprove the point you are arguing? Nothing in your quote makes mention of the GOP, but in fact makes specific mention of POLICY MAKING. Who is making all of the policies that are being blocked? Isn't it Obama's policies that were not effective?

The GOP was right to oppose Obama's failed and ineffective bills as they are not in the best interest of the American people as a whole.

It is cool how you tried to use "cherry picking" as an excuse to ignore a fact and then tried to "cherry pick" a different line from the same article that just disproves your point even further. I wish I could learn that trick so I could become a liberal.
 
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