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Republicans block Obama jobs bill

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whysoserious said:
A lot of economists do think it would have been a lot worse without the bailouts and stimulus.
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And a lot don't ! Look around ... where are we gaining ground ? Looks to me like we pissed away a trillion bucks. Last time we had a recession where the President stepped all over his dick doing the wrong stuff to fix it was FDR turning that recession into the Great Depression.

Try again. Give me Mr. Potato Head any day. Your guy sucks worse than Bush, and that is nothing to crow about.
 
Swit said:
And during that time he had to triage the economy then spent the rest of the time on health care legislation.... you can argue that it was the wrong priority to tackle but that was what he used his near super-majority for.
(58 if you include the independents that still caucused with the Democrats) source
and during this time the filibuster was in fact the standard tactic for each and every proposal put forth by either the white house or the democratic caucus
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Cut the crap. Obama got everything he wanted. He had the Florida flim-flam, Cornhusker Kickback, and Louisiana Purchase to ensure he got all he wanted. And half a bil for Solyndra and other wasted rat-holes.

Forget what I argue., The numbers today suck. Obama is a fail. Biden is a jackass. You need a whole new team libs, cause this crew really sucks.
 
Eighty Deuce said:
And a lot don't ! Look around ... where are we gaining ground ? Looks to me like we pissed away a trillion bucks. Last time we had a recession where the President stepped all over his dick doing the wrong stuff to fix it was FDR turning that recession into the Great Depression.

Try again. Give me Mr. Potato Head any day. Your guy sucks worse than Bush, and that is nothing to crow about.
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Wow, man, you have given the term "non sequitur" a whole new level. Nice job. Anyway, you're right, a lot don't. I agree. Some think that it was necessary, and some don't. As soon as he swore in, I think Obama knew he had to make a choice between two options:

1) Do nothing and hope the economy corrects itself
2) Invest in the economy and help the economy corrects itself much quicker

If he chooses number 2, the worst that can happen is the economy is slow to recover and republicans say he wasted money. If he chooses number 1, the worst that can happen is the economy completely tanks and both republicans and liberals blame him for doing nothing. The obvious option is number 2, as the conservative base will be upset with whatever choice he makes, he might as well do what he knows his base will approve of.

And how you say he is worse than Bush, I don't know. It's a pretty inane comment to make, since Obama hasn't even finished 4 years yet.
 
Eighty Deuce said:
And a lot don't ! Look around ... where are we gaining ground ? Looks to me like we pissed away a trillion bucks. Last time we had a recession where the President stepped all over his dick doing the wrong stuff to fix it was FDR turning that recession into the Great Depression.

Try again. Give me Mr. Potato Head any day. Your guy sucks worse than Bush, and that is nothing to crow about.
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bolded the part I am referring to.
A quick google search for economists that believe the stimulus left us worse off than we would have been without it only really returns op-ed pieces.... can you steer me to specific economist that make this claim so I can research it? I don't need links I can look it up myself.... just names please... than you in advance.
 
Eighty Deuce said:
And a lot don't ! Look around ... where are we gaining ground ? Looks to me like we pissed away a trillion bucks. Last time we had a recession where the President stepped all over his dick doing the wrong stuff to fix it was FDR turning that recession into the Great Depression.

Try again. Give me Mr. Potato Head any day. Your guy sucks worse than Bush, and that is nothing to crow about.
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Please list the credible economists that fit this bill. I really doubt you can come up with more than two. Also tell me what led to the end of the Great Depression ended.
 
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Swit said:
I still suggest giving him the rope.... if what you say is true it would cement republican victories for years to come.
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Republican victories won't even come in a year, let alone years to come. The American people clearly see which party has the ideas and which party is trying to engineer American failure (because wining elections is more important to Republicans than America itself).
 
upsideguy said:
Please list the credible economists that fit this bill. I really doubt you can come up with more than two. Also tell me what led to the end of the Great Depression ended.
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So you call the stimulus a success? Slightly liberal? LOL

September 23, 2010

The Failure of Obama's Stimulus

By Steve Chapman

No one spends money like the federal government. This year alone, it will shovel out $3.7 trillion, which works out to $7 million a minute. So it may surprise you to find out the clearest lesson from the Obama administration's fiscal stimulus program: The government is not very good at spending money.

12:07 PM, Jul 3, 2011 - The stimulus is now causing the economy to shed jobs. When the Obama administration releases a report on the Friday before a long weekend, it’s clearly not trying to draw attention to the report’s contents. Sure enough, the “Seventh Quarterly Report” on the economic impact of the “stimulus,” released on Friday, July 1, provides further evidence that President Obama’s economic “stimulus” did very little, if anything, to stimulate the economy, and a whole lot to stimulate the debt.

The report was written by the White House’s Council of Economic Advisors, a group of three economists who were all handpicked by Obama, and it chronicles the alleged success of the “stimulus” in adding or saving jobs. The council reports that, using “mainstream estimates of economic multipliers for the effects of fiscal stimulus” (which it describes as a “natural way to estimate the effects of” the legislation), the “stimulus” has added or saved just under 2.4 million jobs — whether private or public — at a cost (to date) of $666 billion. That’s a cost to taxpayers of $278,000 per job.
In other words, the government could simply have cut a $100,000 check to everyone whose employment was allegedly made possible by the “stimulus,” and taxpayers would have come out $427 billion ahead...
 
upsideguy said:
Republican victories won't even come in a year, let alone years to come. The American people clearly see which party has the ideas and which party is trying to engineer American failure (because wining elections is more important to Republicans than America itself).
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why would you support a President that generated these results TODAY, over 2 years after the recession ended? These your ideas of great ideas?

Obama economic results in 2011,
.4% GDP and 1.3% GDP growth in 2011(bea.gov)
25+ million unemployed or under employed Americans in 2011(bls.gov)
2.6 million fewer jobs(bls.gov)
4.2 trillion added to the debt in less than 3 years(U.S. Treasury Site)
Downgrade of the U.S. credit rating(S&P)
Rising Misery index 7.83 to 12.97 (The United States Misery Index By Year)
38-41% JAR and well over 50-55% disapproval ratings(Gallup)


Slightly liberal? LOL
 
Conservative said:
So you call the stimulus a success? Slightly liberal? LOL

September 23, 2010

The Failure of Obama's Stimulus

By Steve Chapman

No one spends money like the federal government. This year alone, it will shovel out $3.7 trillion, which works out to $7 million a minute. So it may surprise you to find out the clearest lesson from the Obama administration's fiscal stimulus program: The government is not very good at spending money.
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This is a link to Conservative's article
 
Did you read that article, Conservative? He is saying it hurt the economy, not because of the money it spent, but because of this:

If the slow-arriving infrastructure spending were the only component, the weak comeback might be understandable. But the other components of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act were designed to get money out in a big hurry.

The program included $282 billion in tax cuts, which took effect immediately to boost the take-home pay of workers. It also furnished $140 billion in aid to state and local governments, so they could maintain programs and avoid mass layoffs of public employees.

What's wrong with those elements? For one thing, there is no compelling evidence that they function as intended. Tax cuts are supposed to induce consumers to spend more, but past experience indicates that people use most of the windfall to increase their savings or pay down debts — neither of which puts people back to work.

A recent study for the National Bureau of Economic Research, by Joel Slemrod and Matthew Shapiro of the University of Michigan and Claudia Sahm of the Federal Reserve Board, says that's exactly what happened with Obama's tax cuts. The effect on spending, they concluded, was "modest at best."
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You probably should read the articles before you post them. You just quoted a guy who think supply-side economics is nonsense and used him as your source. Plus, I think they requested you find an economist who thinks the stimulus package hurt the economy, and I think this guy is just a writer from the Chicago Tribune.

Steve Chapman - Conservative Columnist and Political Commentator
Steve Chapman is a columnist and editorial writer for the Chicago Tribune. His twice-a-week column.
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whysoserious said:
Did you read that article, Conservative? He is saying it hurt the economy, not because of the money it spent, but because of this:



You probably should read the articles before you post them. You just quoted a guy who think supply-side economics is nonsense and used him as your source. Plus, I think they requested you find an economist who thinks the stimulus package hurt the economy, and I think this guy is just a writer from the Chicago Tribune.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...aD3aVkaB2uRvvTZ4g&sig2=neRDw4KEr1tJr8B_VB3JbQ
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Yep, read the article and understand the article completely. I have posted many times the breakdown of those tax cuts which did nothing but cost the American taxpayer billions in debt service. Most of the taxs were rebate checks that once spent were gone, the rest were targeted. Did your paycheck go up? You are working, right?

From the article

A recent study for the National Bureau of Economic Research, by Joel Slemrod and Matthew Shapiro of the University of Michigan and Claudia Sahm of the Federal Reserve Board, says that's exactly what happened with Obama's tax cuts. The effect on spending, they concluded, was "modest at best."
Click to expand...
 
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Conservative said:
So you call the stimulus a success? Slightly liberal? LOL

September 23, 2010

The Failure of Obama's Stimulus

By Steve Chapman

No one spends money like the federal government. This year alone, it will shovel out $3.7 trillion, which works out to $7 million a minute. So it may surprise you to find out the clearest lesson from the Obama administration's fiscal stimulus program: The government is not very good at spending money.

12:07 PM, Jul 3, 2011 - The stimulus is now causing the economy to shed jobs. When the Obama administration releases a report on the Friday before a long weekend, it’s clearly not trying to draw attention to the report’s contents. Sure enough, the “Seventh Quarterly Report” on the economic impact of the “stimulus,” released on Friday, July 1, provides further evidence that President Obama’s economic “stimulus” did very little, if anything, to stimulate the economy, and a whole lot to stimulate the debt.

The report was written by the White House’s Council of Economic Advisors, a group of three economists who were all handpicked by Obama, and it chronicles the alleged success of the “stimulus” in adding or saving jobs. The council reports that, using “mainstream estimates of economic multipliers for the effects of fiscal stimulus” (which it describes as a “natural way to estimate the effects of” the legislation), the “stimulus” has added or saved just under 2.4 million jobs — whether private or public — at a cost (to date) of $666 billion. That’s a cost to taxpayers of $278,000 per job.
In other words, the government could simply have cut a $100,000 check to everyone whose employment was allegedly made possible by the “stimulus,” and taxpayers would have come out $427 billion ahead...
Click to expand...
I live in Chicago and read the Tribune daily I would hardly consider Steve Chapman an economist any more than I would consider myself one.
 
Conservative said:
Yep, read the article and understand the article completely. I have posted many times the breakdown of those tax cuts which did nothing but cost the American taxpayer billions in debt service. Most of the taxs were rebate checks that once spent were gone, the rest were targeted. Did your paycheck go up? You are working, right?
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So now you are taking a position against tax cuts?
 
Swit said:
I live in Chicago and read the Tribune daily I would hardly consider Steve Chapman an economist any more than I would consider myself one.
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And I would hardly call the Obama stimulus a success with these numbers

Obama economic results in 2011,
.4% GDP and 1.3% GDP growth in 2011(bea.gov)
25+ million unemployed or under employed Americans in 2011(bls.gov)
2.6 million fewer jobs(bls.gov)
4.2 trillion added to the debt in less than 3 years(U.S. Treasury Site)
Downgrade of the U.S. credit rating(S&P)
Rising Misery index 7.83 to 12.97 (The United States Misery Index By Year)
38-41% JAR and well over 50-55% disapproval ratings(Gallup)
 
winston53660 said:
So now you are taking a position against tax cuts?
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I can answer for him, because he is predictable. He'll say tax rebates, not tax cuts. The only difference being that tax rebates give a lump sum and tax cuts give it nominally.
 
Conservative said:
Yep, read the article and understand the article completely. I have posted many times the breakdown of those tax cuts which did nothing but cost the American taxpayer billions in debt service. Most of the taxs were rebate checks that once spent were gone, the rest were targeted. Did your paycheck go up? You are working, right?

From the article
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Your quote, from an economist, said the effect was "modest at best". It may not be a great result, but modest is better than nothing. So the only economist you have found so far think that the stimulus did help, just not much. Good job!
 
whysoserious said:
I can answer for him, because he is predictable. He'll say tax rebates, not tax cuts. The only difference being that tax rebates give a lump sum and tax cuts give it nominally.
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Right, people are still getting benefits from the Bush tax cuts today, rebates are long gone
 
whysoserious said:
Your quote, from an economist, said the effect was "modest at best". It may not be a great result, but modest is better than nothing. So the only economist you have found so far think that the stimulus did help, just not much. Good job!
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What is the debt service on the 4.2 trillion that Obama has added to the debt? You call that a success?
 
whysoserious said:
Because the Bush tax cuts are still in effect. You think Obama should lower taxes further?
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He wouldn't have to if he implemented a flat tax and quit threatening business with Obamacare fees as well as higher taxes
 
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