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Labor Unions Join Wall Street Occupiers for "Mass Rally'

iliveonramen said:
So a website denotes leadership? Normally it would denote communication and providing of a forum of like minded people.
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Don't you think somebody in a leadership role would have to decide what to put on the website?

Somewhere somebody is typing in what they want the website to say as a representative of the group/protest, so I would say that person has a leadership role.
 
Frolicking Dinosaurs said:
This movement is starting to get organized and it will likely be a force in the 2012 election. The GOP's usual tactic of shouting insults, calling them socialists, anarchists, haters of American, Godless criminals, etc. is not working anymore. People have quit believing this nonsense. Even the Gray voters are starting to align with this movement.

This feels a lot like the political wave that got the civil rights act of 1964 passed over the vehement warnings from the GOP that giving Blacks equally would destroy this country and make white people unsafe on streets and in homes. That was poppycock and what you are saying now about the wealthy creating jobs if they are given tax breaks and few regulations is poppycock. The middle class and used to be middle class are taking this country back.
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Was the GOP really saying that or was it the democratic party that was against the civil right movement?
 
That was poppycock and what you are saying now about the wealthy creating jobs if they are given tax breaks and few regulations is poppycock. The middle class and used to be middle class are taking this country back.
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That is where the Tea Party lost me...at first I was like "yeah, these bailouts needed to happen but something stinks in Washington"....I got behind the idea of "throw the bums out" (until it was obvious they just meant Democrats mainly) and could sympathize running up deficits (until I learned they just want to cut taxes further and get rid of virtually everything except the DoD)...they came across as very anti-establishment.

Then the bait and switch, anti-establishment is not less regulation and lower taxes for corporations! That's purely establishment propaganda. At that point it was obvious the Tea Party was just ultra conservatives and spoke for no one except a sliver of the population.
 
Eighty Deuce said:
This entire "movement" is 100% Democrat astroturf. Watch and learn.
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I think astrocrabgrass would be about as far as you can get without undermining all the dismissal you're also passing out.
 
Eighty Deuce said:
This entire "movement" is 100% Democrat astroturf. Watch and learn.
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Not anymore. The usually solidly GOP grey voters from FL are joining in as are the usually GOP older voters elsewhere. We would like to thank Rick 'Ponzi scheme" Perry and John 'cut entitlements' Boehner plans for steering these voters away from the Republican party.
 
Don't you think somebody in a leadership role would have to decide what to put on the website?

Somewhere somebody is typing in what they want the website to say as a representative of the group/protest, so I would say that person has a leadership role.
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I disagree, I think it's possible to be an organizer without being the leader of the movement. There's a concept, Wall St greed and corruption but that's vauge and all he's listed is generalities on the website.
 
I find this whole thread pretty interesting.

The similarities between this thing and the tea party, in terms of having nonspecific desires (even if the desires themselves are very different) both movements are there. Both movements contain multiple subgroups that may be interested in one specific aspect of the general ideology but have their own desires. At this point in time, both movements were rather vague, however, the tea party movement has been around longer and has gained more cohesion due to that.

Ultimately, in both cases, what we are seeing is self organizing populism which may be the new "thing" for politics (and I certainly hope it is as I see it as good for the country and getting the middle men (political parties)) out of the way.

In both cases, people who may be opposed to either group, ideologically are looking for an excuse they can imagine to smear the groups, do the point of outright making things up (lots of that in this thread).

So basically, we have been down this road before, two years ago.
 
Was the GOP really saying that or was it the democratic party that was against the civil right movement?
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I agree, it wasn't the GOP but it wasn't necessarily the Democratic party. The party controlled both houses of Congress as well as the Presidency when passing it. It was strictly regionally based and after 1964, the GOP did institute the "southern strategy" to bring in the former Democratically voting deep south states using racism and passage of Civil Rights by the Democrats...
 
Mason66 said:
Was the GOP really saying that or was it the democratic party that was against the civil right movement?
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JFK was the president from 1960 to 1963. His vice president took over after JFK was assassinated. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 was JFK's idea and the GOP along with some Dems from the south attempt to plant fear in the hearts of white Americans to stop the Act from passing. I was an adult voter when all this was going on. The GOP had put forth a bill in early 1963 that JFK felt did not go far enough in providing equality and protection to Blacks. The northern Democrats filibustered the GOP bill to give JFK time to craft a more comprehensive bill. Then southern Democrats and GOPs joined together to try to filibuster JFKs bill, but were unsuccessful. This lead to some southern Democrats becoming GOPs.

The rhetoric was pretty nasty.
 
The media are totally capable of telling the truth about these things, they're obviously competent. But the broadcast press was completely subverted by the Feds like in that George Clooney movie.

All these "Mr. freedom" types w/ their flags and their bumperstickers can't see their right to speech has been killed.
 
Frolicking Dinosaurs said:
JFK was the president from 1960 to 1963. His vice president took over after JFK was assassinated. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 was JFK's idea and the GOP along with some Dems from the south attempt to plant fear in the hearts of white Americans to stop the Act from passing. I was an adult voter when all this was going on. The GOP had put forth a bill in early 1963 that JFK felt did not go far enough in providing equality and protection to Blacks. The northern Democrats filibustered the GOP bill to give JFK time to craft a more comprehensive bill. Then southern Democrats and GOPs joined together to try to filibuster JFKs bill, but were unsuccessful. This lead to some southern Democrats becoming GOPs.

The rhetoric was pretty nasty.
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AHH, thanks for that history lesson, I had the broad idea but didn't know exactly how it played out.
 
iliveonramen said:
I'm not saying it won't end up being taken over by the Democratic party, that's entirely possible. As it is now, in it's current form it is grass roots. Despitre the rhetoric from the right, the Democratic party is just as pro-Wall Street as the Republican party. Yeah, Obama talks about fat cats but Wall Street donates just as much if not more to Democratic canidates as Republicans. Schumer is a Wall Street guy through and through.

Just like the Tea Partiers are suspicious of Republican politicians because they tend to spend as bad as Democrats.
Liberals are suspicious of the Democratic party because it tends to be as pro-Wall Street and big business as the Republicans.

Lets be honest, coporate money and Wall Street dominates both parties. You can't raise a 500+ million dollar warchest from working stiffs.
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There is nothing "grass roots" about this. It is 100% astro-turf. These folks are protesting about events that happened 3-8 years ago, while Obama has spent is into the crapper since, and failed at everything. That in itself reveals its nonsense. This is Obama's reelection campaign. Phoney as a $3 bill.
 
Frolicking Dinosaurs said:
Not anymore. The usually solidly GOP grey voters from FL are joining in as are the usually GOP older voters elsewhere. We would like to thank Rick 'Ponzi scheme" Perry and John 'cut entitlements' Boehner plans for steering these voters away from the Republican party.
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Nonsense. Obama is dropping like a rock in Florida. The Dems got their asses kicked here in Nov 2010. None of this "corporate greed" and "Wall Street" corruption is a phenomenon that happened since then, unless they are looking at Obama's cronie capitalism. Frankly, your notions could not be more uninformed and absurd. Hippy farts and rainbows.
 
iliveonramen said:
AHH, thanks for that history lesson, I had the broad idea but didn't know exactly how it played out.
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Which is not how it played out. Southern Democrats, such as Byrd, Gore (Al's dad), Fulbright, etc., did not become Republicans. The vast majority of "Dixiecrats" stayed Democrat, and it was the Republicans that gave LBJ the support he needed to pass his civil rights bill. Look it all up.
 
There is nothing "grass roots" about this. It is 100% astro-turf. These folks are protesting about events that happened 3-8 years ago, while Obama has spent is into the crapper since, and failed at everything. That in itself reveals its nonsense. This is Obama's releection campaign. Phoney as a $3 bill.
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I disagree. For one, any true, real movement doesn't happen until people feel pain. In 2008, when the bailouts were passed the economy just tanked. For any movement to gain ground the populace has to typically be pushed to the limit. Hoovervills didn't appear overnight and Ludlow and other major strikes didn't happen even though these people worked in horrid conditions for years. There has to be some sort of catalyst or long term suffering. For the Tea Party, that catalyst was a black president and a Democratic party majority. I'm not saying it's racism, but the movement is very reactionary and Obama represents real change, like the makeup of America changing and major changing of political beliefs.

If the economy was fine right now, I doubt those people would be out there. These most likely represent people that voted Obama in 2008....but I bet the majority are dissapointed in him. Let it play out before you claim it's astro trufed unless you can follow a money trail back to major backers of the Democratic party (like you could with the Tea Party).
 
Frolicking Dinosaurs said:
Seems like those upset with the GOP's attempts to mess with Social Security and Medicare are getting ready to join this movement in FL and CA. Think the cops are going to be busting the heads of grannies and papaws or will they be smart enough to avoid that PR nightmare?
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you see these people protesting entitlement reform?


where???
 
Eighty Deuce said:
Which is not how it played out. Southern Democrats, such as Byrd, Gore (Al's dad), Fulbright, etc., did not become Republicans. The vast majority of "Dixiecrats" stayed Democrat, and it was the Republicans that gave LBJ the support he needed to pass his civil rights bill. Look it all up.
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Then how would explain it passed even though
The House, Senate, and Presidency was Democratic...the Republicans helped but Democrats had overwhelming majorities.
Most importantly, right after Civil Rights passed, the South which resented Civil Rights started voting Republican and has since.
I
 
Eighty Deuce said:
Nonsense. Obama is dropping like a rock in Florida. The Dems got their asses kicked here in Nov 2010. None of this "corporate greed" and "Wall Street" corruption is a phenomenon that happened since then, unless they are looking at Obama's cronie capitalism. Frankly, your notions could not be more uninformed and absurd. Hippy farts and rainbows.
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also worth noting - when the thrust of your argument is to destroy the worth of bonds and stocks... you are basically saying "F--- Retired People".
 
Redress said:
That is odd. How can this be when cpwill is telling me that NPR interviewed the leaders and he heard it? They don't really have leaders, as this is pointing out, and NPR doesn't have anything about such an interview on their site, and now NPR is saying every one is in on decisions? It's almost as if cpwill either made up or distorted what he heard...
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:shrug: i heard what they said - and then found and linked the relevant portion to you from a left wing supportive website. you can complain all you like about it :)
 
iliveonramen said:
The Ryan Plan which turns Social Security into a voucher and it passed the House with full Republican support.
The fact Presidential canidates are saying Social Security is a Ponzi Scheme.
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Get educated for once. Ryan proposed vouchers for Medicare, not SS.

Does this site have an Ignore button ?
 
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iliveonramen said:
The Ryan Plan which turns Social Security into a voucher and it passed the House with full Republican support.
The fact Presidential canidates are saying Social Security is a Ponzi Scheme.
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do you support those turds demanding that "all debt be wiped out"
 
iliveonramen said:
Then how would explain it passed even though
The House, Senate, and Presidency was Democratic...the Republicans helped but Democrats had overwhelming majorities.
Most importantly, right after Civil Rights passed, the South which resented Civil Rights started voting Republican and has since.
I
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Right. The Dems had huge majorities. But LBJ could not pass it with all those Dems. Because all the southern Dems, who stayed Dems, btw, were against it. It was Republicans who gave LBJ the majority.

You haven't a clue about electoral demographics either. The South is benefitting from the relocation of disenfranchised folks from the failed liberal North. Look to the shift in electoral counts since 1970. Folks still moving south too. Conservative folks. Away from the liberal morass of tax and spend states such as Illinois and New York,

Now, to the Ignore button.
 
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cpwill said:
you see these people protesting entitlement reform? where???
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The gray voters are organizing and it looks like they are going to join with the Wall Street protesters. My guess is this will be called "Regular Americans are mad as heck and aren't going to take this anymore" instead of OWS by Thanksgiving.
  • The seniors are pretty darn hot about the Tea Party putting SS and Medicare on the chopping block while refusing to raise taxes on the wealthy.
  • The younger voters are upset that educational assistance when on the chopping block while refusing to raise taxes on the wealthy.
  • There are a lot of Hispanic children born in the US to illegal immigrants that are now over age 18 and they are upset that that the GOP has blocked all legislation that would legal to their relatives be able to make their status legal and to have the protections most workers in America enjoy.
  • The unemployed are upset that the GOP has tried to block programs to help them retrain and programs to create jobs
  • A whole lot of uninsured people are angry that the GOP blocked a public option for healthcare.
  • People are angry that Americans pay far more for medications than residents of other countries do
 
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